Brakes & brake fluid - track use

[smq42]

Any downside to rotors if I switch to track pads for HPDE and then switch back to OEM for street use?

What brake fluid would people recommend? (8-10 track days planned along w DD duty during summer and fall).

Thanks.

[Piets94]

I would have separate track rotors and DD rotors. Different pad materials building up on rotors will affect brake performance.
I ran track pads on stock rotors, ended up with some gouging of the rotor face. Machined them smooth for the stock pads swap and whilst okay initially, developed a shuddering under light braking.
My advice, better rotors and pads for track duty, stock rotors and pads for DD.
I use Motul RBF600
Search other threads for issues with the stock rotors on track. But then some people have no issues either

[MightyMouseTech]

I bet the compounds will be incompatible. You will probably get a vibration which will lead to warped rotors. Generally, if you stick within one brand, you are OK. Hawk says all their compounds are compatible with each other, so use HPS or HP+ on the street, then a real track compound like DTC60's on the track.

[TXmtrhed]

No downside, it's what many of us do. Use a pad like PFC-08 that is not hard on the rotors. PFC's also bed in quickly which is a consideration when swapping back and forth. I haven't had any buildup problems with the 08's. I use Motul RBF 600 fluid since I bleed often and flush yearly. Ti brake pad insulators work well too to reduce fluid temp buildup especially when we're new to the track and tend to use the brakes too much.

[Mnime]

2nd TXmtrhed set up. I have the same and havent had any issues. CarboTech XP10pads are also very easy on rotors and I found that they have almost as good of initial bite as the PFC's but they don't hold up to the heat as well and will fade a little toward the end of a long session.

[dcaron9999]

Originally Posted by Mnime

2nd TXmtrhed set up. I have the same and havent had any issues. CarboTech XP10pads are also very easy on rotors and I found that they have almost as good of initial bite as the PFC's but they don't hold up to the heat as well and will fade a little toward the end of a long session.

Same pads, stock rotors, Motul RBF600 fluid, and identical experience with brake fade here. I need to ease the pace or brake earlier towards the end of my lapping session.

With my Ti shields, I think I am overwhelming my XP10 pads more quickly now, because I also moved from 225/40R18 front tires to 255/35R18 EHP tires. The front brake pads have more work to do now, and build up more heat due to enhanced adhesion. Im not getting a soft pedal (boiling fluid), but I do need to step on the brake pedal harder (brake pad fade), and brake earlier.

For my next set of front pads, I will move up from XP10 (1475* max temp) to XP12 pads (1850*F max temp). May also experiment with the first set of PFC-08 pads produced for the 135i, if I get them from Anish @ Speed-Freaks.net, in the June timeframe.

[MDORPHN]

Originally Posted by TXmtrhed

No downside, it's what many of us do. Use a pad like PFC-08 that is not hard on the rotors. PFC's also bed in quickly which is a consideration when swapping back and forth. I haven't had any buildup problems with the 08's. I use Motul RBF 600 fluid since I bleed often and flush yearly. Ti brake pad insulators work well too to reduce fluid temp buildup especially when we're new to the track and tend to use the brakes too much.

Yep!

Neil

[Kgolf31]

Typically when you run pads, if you keep within the brand name you don't have to worry about cross contamination in pad material

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

Typically when you run pads, if you keep within the brand name you don't have to worry about cross contamination in pad material

Plus 4 for me here.

Having separate track and street pads and rotors is expensive and very time consuming depending on model.

The key when using different pads is to stay within manufacturer. Don't use. PFC street pads and HAWK track pads. They may be compatible or they may not.

If I was a runner I wouldn't wear nikes for jogging and then new balance for running. I would stay with the same company for fitment.


As far as fluid. I run castrol SRF. It's amazing and far equals most other fluids in dry boiling point and far exceeds most other fluids with respect to dry boiling point.

Things like " bleeding often" from the caliper are simply not needed. Brake pedal feel doesn't change expect for pad level.

You Spend more up front for but get a better fluid and less maintenance. Flush yearly.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by dcaron9999

Same pads, stock rotors, Motuel RBF600 fluid, and identical experience with brake fade here. I need to ease the pace or brake earlier towards the end of my lapping session.

With my Ti shields, I think I am overwhelming my XP10 pads more quickly now, because I also moved from 225/40R18 front tires to 255/35R18 EHP tires. The front brake pads have more work to do now, and build up more heat due to enhanced adhesion. Im not getting a soft pedal (boiling fluid), so I do need to step on the brake pedal harder (brake pad fade), and brake earlier.

For my next set of front pads, I will move up from XP10 (1475* max temp) to XP12 pads (1850*F max temp). May also experiment with the first set of PFC-08 pads produced for the 135i, if I get them from Anish @ Speed-Freaks.net, in the June timeframe.

Get the PFC 08s or 11s bro! Make sure they have anti rattle clips. !

[robertm]

I'm intrigued with the titanium brake pad insulators. I've never used them before. In theory they sound great. Please share your experiences.

[dcaron9999]

Originally Posted by robertm

I'm intrigued with the titanium brake pad insulators. I've never used them before. In theory they sound great. Please share your experiences.

They are designed to prevent heat transfer from your pads to your calipers and brake fluid. They tend to keep the heat in the pads, putting greater stresses on them. I recommend the Ti shields only if you track your 135i, and you use high temp resistant track pads.

The Ti shields are really a temporary solution, to save your OE calipers (pistons, boots, and paint yellowing) if you are not planning a front BBK upgrade in the near future.

[MDORPHN]

Originally Posted by dcaron9999

They are designed to prevent heat transfer from your pads to your calipers and brake fluid. They tend to keep the heat in the pads, putting greater stresses on them. I recommend the Ti shields only if you track your 135i, and you use high temp resistant track pads.

The Ti shields are really a temporary solution, to save your OE calipers (pistons, boots, and paint yellowing) if you are not planning a front BBK upgrade in the near future.

I run them on the front and they help preserve the dust boots.

I'd also run them in the rear, but none are (yet) made for that caliper.

And, yes -- first upgrade your brake fluid (I run Motul RBF600) and pads (I prefer PFC-08 for HPDEs).

Neil

[TXmtrhed]

When I ordered mine from Hard Brakes I received 4 shields, two inner and two outer for the front caliper. Since I was only worried about the heat transfer to the single piston I modified the outer ones to fit the rear inner pads. Win!

[dcaron9999]

Originally Posted by TXmtrhed

When I ordered mine from Hard Brakes I received 4 shields, two inner and two outer for the front caliper. Since I was only worried about the heat transfer to the single piston I modified the outer ones to fit the rear inner pads. Win!

The 135i has 6 pistons in each front calipers, so need 4 TI shields in the front as compared to your 1M.

[1Matt]

Originally Posted by smq42

Any downside to rotors if I switch to track pads for HPDE and then switch back to OEM for street use?

What brake fluid would people recommend? (8-10 track days planned along w DD duty during summer and fall).

Thanks.

Just to share my experience. I tracked the car for 1.5 track days completely stock before rotors severely warped. BMW replaced rotors but added Ferodo DS2500 pads. They worked well for 3-4 track days but I didn't like the feel of these pads. I then went to PF front rotors and PF08 pads all round ... I ran a bed in process prior to tracking the car but within 4 laps on track I had severe shudder in front brakes and stopped driving it very dissapointed. I am now on stock rotors with Pagid RS19s all round. So far two track days under my belt with this setup up and all going well. When first installed these pads were very noisy for street use but after two track days they are much quieter. I don't change from street to track pads because of the hassle factor.

[dcaron9999]

Originally Posted by 1Matt

Just to share my experience. I tracked the car for 1.5 track days completely stock before rotors severely warped. BMW replaced rotors but added Ferodo DS2500 pads. They worked well for 3-4 track days but I didn't like the feel of these pads. I then went to PF front rotors and PF08 pads all round ... I ran a bed in process prior to tracking the car but within 4 laps on track I had severe shudder in front brakes and stopped driving it very dissapointed. I am now on stock rotors with Pagid RS19s all round. So far two track days under my belt with this setup up and all going well. When first installed these pads were very noisy for street use but after two track days they are much quieter. I don't change from street to track pads because of the hassle factor.

Similar to my path. Outgrew OE street pads. Outgrew trackable street pads. Now on Carbotech XP10 track pads but not completely satisfied due to fade towards end of session. Pagid rs19 or rs29 pads were on my list at one point. Endless ME20 too. I need front brake pads that can tolerate heat, not fade during my 20-30 minute lapping sessions, and pads that last a long time.

How is the modulation, bite, and consistency of the Pagid RS19's?

[1Matt]

Very happy with the feel of these pads ... will be interesting to see how well this setup lasts, I will report back.

[MDORPHN]

Originally Posted by TXmtrhed

When I ordered mine from Hard Brakes I received 4 shields, two inner and two outer for the front caliper. Since I was only worried about the heat transfer to the single piston I modified the outer ones to fit the rear inner pads. Win!

Maybe I'll do same.

How did you cut them. Dremel?

Neil

[timbo_3101]

Originally Posted by 1Matt

Just to share my experience. I tracked the car for 1.5 track days completely stock before rotors severely warped. BMW replaced rotors but added Ferodo DS2500 pads. They worked well for 3-4 track days but I didn't like the feel of these pads. I then went to PF front rotors and PF08 pads all round ... I ran a bed in process prior to tracking the car but within 4 laps on track I had severe shudder in front brakes and stopped driving it very dissapointed. I am now on stock rotors with Pagid RS19s all round. So far two track days under my belt with this setup up and all going well. When first installed these pads were very noisy for street use but after two track days they are much quieter. I don't change from street to track pads because of the hassle factor.

Welcoming another Australian member to the 1M forum

Are you sure RS19 don't squeal like a truck? If so, either this vehicle is not being driven on public roads (as for myself), or you must be braking hard on public roads

[1Matt]

Originally Posted by timbo_3101

Welcoming another Australian member to the 1M forum

Are you sure RS19 don't squeal like a truck? If so, either this vehicle is not being driven on public roads (as for myself), or you must be braking hard on public roads

Before the track days the Pagids were squealing BAD ... turning heads for all the wrong reasons. But no worse than the PF08s. Ferodos DS 2500 were fine on the noise front. After two recent track days with the Pagid RS19s the squeal is now very minimal (others may have a technical reason for this phenomenon), but enjoying the relative silence. I run Proxy 888s and installed front camber plates.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by 1Matt

Before the track days the Pagids were squealing BAD ... turning heads for all the wrong reasons. But no worse than the PF08s. Ferodos DS 2500 were fine on the noise front. After two recent track days with the Pagid RS19s the squeal is now very minimal (others may have a technical reason for this phenomenon), but enjoying the relative silence. I run Proxy 888s and installed front camber plates.

While I don't have a technical reason, yes it's common for track pads and even aggressive street pads to squeal far less in the days immediately following hard usage. Of course the squeal typically returns a few days after that....

Going to an autocross is a great way to get rid of the squeal for a short period of time. Or go back to the track.....


Braking hard in a short distance on the street also helps reduce squeal or chatter from the pads for that single brake application. Of course it can be hazardous to your rear bumper if there is traffic behind you.