Updated (Improved) Water/Meth Results on ESS VT2 650

[Longboarder]

I posted my results of my Snow Performance water/meth install and initial dynos in these two links below -

Install:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=868939

Initial dynos:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=875549

I was scratching my head for a while as the dyno results were initially so poor. The car FELT just as fast, if not faster on the road, but the results from the water/meth dyno's were showing massive power declines compared with the dynos from the car pre- water/meth.

I'm not tuned for water/meth (running Boost Juice), but just turning it on was beneficial for the few ESS VT2 S/C owners. Plus for me, given that the car sees the track, I wanted it more so for just keeping IATs in check which helps other things like oil temps.

I don't have CAN-integration so I couldn't see 100% of the variables as to why the car was doing what it was doing on the dyno. Not wanting to give up just yet, I thought that the car might just not like immediate changes - since during my dyno runs, we were experimenting real time with different nozzle sizes and the results were just getting weirder and weirder.

I rationalized that I could isolate the variable of "changing things" (that is, changing from turning meth on or off or changing out nozzle sizes) simply by resetting adaptations between any change that I do.

So I went back to the dyno with the laptop and something interesting happened...power almost restored to normal. In fact the results on the first run (red line RunFile 63 with meth off) looks very similar to my highest HP run prior to the water/meth install (blue line RunFile 37). The difference between runs 37 and 63 can be explained because of the higher IATs, as it was a much hotter day comparatively, so the results make sense.

Then I reset adaptations again and turned meth on for RunFiles 64 and 65. While power is down a little, it's not down by much at all - and best yet, the numbers are consistent.

I included IAT data in my dyno's below, which show IAT drop on the water/meth runs (RunFiles 64 and 65) as compared to when meth was off for the first run (RunFile 63). While I didn't make any more power, it's nice to know that I didn't lose any power.

While I'm down ~ 20 RWHP from when I started this ordeal, I'm ok with that because of the added protection I'm getting from the octane and cooling effects of the water.

While dyno numbers are one thing, it's only a guage and the real test will occur in early October at the Shift S3ctor Coalinga Airstrip Attack. It will be interesting if I could run another S/C M3 that makes the same or more HP on the dyno - to see if the dyno is telling me everything. I have a feeling that it isn't.

I have another upcoming dyno in a couple weeks (9/21/13) where I'm going to do something interesting - pour some 40 degree water/meth into the reservoir - and see what happens. Stay tuned

[SYZ]

60-130 time will tell you everything about the value of having this.

How does the car feel up top compared to before?

Looking forward to shift sector results.

Good luck.

[THE-FN-MAN]

Love the info man, best of luck with the results!

[Malek@MRF]

This is one of those odd times where the dyno cannot correctly interpret how the car actually performs. Without a doubt the car is faster and more consistent after repeated pulls on the actual tarmac and at speed.

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by SYZ

60-130 time will tell you everything about the value of having this.

How does the car feel up top compared to before?

Looking forward to shift sector results.

Good luck.

The car feels faster on the butt dyno. I acknowledge that's pretty subjective, but I was spinning the tires quite a bit more in 2nd gear starting around 7,500 and was also spinning 3rd (beginning around 7,800) as well. Never did that before the water/meth. In fact the tire spin in 2nd became so violent that I got sideway a couple times and needed to counter-steer so as not to lose it. Need to keep MDM on with my street tires now. I tossed on my 18" track wheels with RS3's (18x11 R with 285's) and that has improved traction somewhat so I may use these at Shift S3ctor.

Originally Posted by THE-FN-MAN

Love the info man, best of luck with the results!

Thx Mark...I'll vid all the Shift S3ctor runs. I'm going to try to run cars with 100+ more HP just to see what happens. The M3's with DCT usually do pretty well against high HP cars with a manual trans.

Originally Posted by Malek@MRF

This is one of those odd times where the dyno cannot correctly interpret how the car actually performs. Without a doubt the car is faster and more consistent after repeated pulls on the actual tarmac and at speed.

Yeah agree Malek. It sure feels faster like I mentioned above.

There's one thing for sure - the reliability has been perfect - unlike my 335 water/meth system which was so inconsistent/frustrating. You did a stellar job with this. Thanks again.

[tightie]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

The car feels faster on the butt dyno. I acknowledge that's pretty subjective, but I was spinning the tires quite a bit more in 2nd gear starting around 7,500 and was also spinning 3rd (beginning around 7,800) as well. Never did that before the water/meth. In fact the tire spin in 2nd became so violent that I got sideway a couple times and needed to counter-steer so as not to lose it. Need to keep MDM on with my street tires now. I tossed on my 18" track wheels with RS3's (18x11 R with 285's) and that has improved traction somewhat so I may use these at Shift S3ctor.

Told ya man! That's what I daily and track on!!!!

Glad to see your still enjoying the car! Hope 2 see you on the 29th!

[M3ryder55]

My brother is running a Stage 2 AA kit on his E46 M and he told me that he adds 10 oz OF 100% methanol to the boost juice mix and his car seems to be running much better.

[8k3]

Longboarder, you made a comment how you are down 20hp from when you started. I'm not sure I follow because your meth off dyno (run 63), while down 20 from your best run a few weeks ago (run 37) was due to temperature conditions, not the meth. Am I correct?

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by 8k3

Longboarder, you made a comment how you are down 20hp from when you started. I'm not sure I follow because your meth off dyno (run 63), while down 20 from your best run a few weeks ago (run 37) was due to temperature conditions, not the meth. Am I correct?

Yeah run 63 (mo meth) was down 20-ish HP but temps (and consequently IATs) were considerably higher. When we turned meth on for Runs 64 and 65 IATs dropped 10 deg F which brought me to similar peak IATs as compared to run 37, but I'm still down 20 HP. So turning meth on should have brought me back to 580-ish HP but it didn't.

[8k3]

Got ya, yeah I see that the meth brought the IATs down to where run 63 (original no meth) was which one would think would at least give you run 63's performance. Have you tried less meth, more water? Say 60/40 and 70/30?

[tom @ eas]

Looking forward to seeing this in action @ Shift Sector.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

Looking forward to seeing this in action @ Shift Sector.

Me too, so far he's done very well.

[M&M]

90% meth will make power. Try it.

[OM VT3]

Originally Posted by Malek@MRF

This is one of those odd times where the dyno cannot correctly interpret how the car actually performs. Without a doubt the car is faster and more consistent after repeated pulls on the actual tarmac and at speed.

Could you sell me a set up as a kit? I've got a ess 650 kit

[Stage 2 Drew]

Originally Posted by M&M

90% meth will make power. Try it.

The whole thing is tuning for it...not gonna make any more power by just running meth injection. That much meth with out a tune and your AFRs are going to plument rich and rob power.

[Lalit@autocouture]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Looks good.

.