keep the m or m3? HELP!

[mpower03]

Guys, I have been thinking about trading for an 05 06 e46 m3. I dk what to do, i want more practicality meaning i want a cpl more seats and room for convience and also to put a roof rack on the car. I also want to continue with tracking even though it just begun practically. Im torn the e46 m3 has always been my favorite body style of all time. But i feel like i will be getting rid of something special. Help me out for those of you who have driven both or any opinions!

[Endless619]

Originally Posted by mpower03

Guys, I have been thinking about trading for an 05 06 e46 m3. I dk what to do, i want more practicality meaning i want a cpl more seats and room for convience and also to put a roof rack on the car. I also want to continue with tracking even though it just begun practically. Im torn the e46 m3 has always been my favorite body style of all time. But i feel like i will be getting rid of something special. Help me out for those of you who have driven both or any opinions!

HAHAHA. I own both an E46 M3 and and E86 M and I can tell you keep the Z4MC. IMO the E46 M3 is a downgrade any way you dice it. Some will disagree, and thats fine. I am an owner of both so telling you from an owners perspective of both.

I had both for over a year and just got rid of my E46 M3, about 2 hours ago. So I have a Z4MC and picking up an X5. So I traded my E46 M3 for an X5....

If you need more seats then go with the E46 M3 but I have to tell you the E86 M spoils you big time. Its just looks more modern, has the better interior, and has all the updates you want. Thats just me though.

To me this is a no-brainer. E86 M all the way.

[KevinM]

Well, that is both a hard and easy question. Since you will be keeping the S54 either way, you'll not be giving up one of M's all time great engines. I have experience with both and actually the E46 M3 is probably better balanced (in stock form) and easier to drive fast. It is a great car to be sure.

However, will you be giving up something special? You know it. Trading in one of the 1800 US Z4M coupes for the somewhat ubiquitous E46 M3 seems a non-starter for me.

Personally, I'd keep the M coupe and get another car for your practical needs. I can't imagine only having an M coupe - I agree it would be quite difficult. Buy a used E46 wagon and keep the coupe!

[mpower03]

I think the M3 is for a different part in my life... Right now i dont need more seats at all. I think i need to restart modding my car to get it 'mine' again

[Endless619]

Originally Posted by mpower03

I think the M3 is for a different part in my life... Right now i dont need more seats at all. I think i need to restart modding my car to get it 'mine' again

There you go!!!! Solved!!!!

[gferil]

Yeah when I was contemplating upgrading from my non M E46, I was stuck between the E46 M3 and the Moupe, and even though the Moupe is now my only car and daily driver, I don't regret the decision one bit. When I was test driving the M3's they never got me as excited as when I was driving the Z4M's...but to each their own, go drive a couple for extended test drives and see how they make you feel!

[ZStig]

My girlfriend isn't happy, and I don't blame her, but we use her scion tc for hauling things and carrying additional passengers.

[mjposner]

I have owned two M3s, coupe and vert and I think you will be unhappy due to the extra weight and size. Unless you regularly need the back seats, its a waste of space. Also, if you are tall, the leg room in the back is horrible. While the newer M3s are great and add more power to make up for the weight, it is a different $$$ ball game.

[esqu1re]

My wife thought an e46 m3 looked like it was from the late 80's. Her opinion on this doesn't really matter, but the e46 does look a bit dated compared to the z4. To me, I think the e46 is "classier" than the z4, but not as striking.

[mpower03]

i personally think the e46 m3 is bmw's best looking vehicle imo. it looks good from every angle, clean, classy, and angry at the same time lol

[mjposner]

I agree with mpower03, especially in the right color (except that mustard yellow), though I would argue that an E39 M5 is the best looking BMW, or maybe an E30 Vert, the 850csi, the M6 and of course the M1

[thekurgan]

Originally Posted by mpower03

I think the M3 is for a different part in my life... Right now i dont need more seats at all. I think i need to restart modding my car to get it 'mine' again

If you do decide, those cars have had lots of issues surrounding the subframe reinforcement so make sure the previous owner has had that done as it's expensive. E46M3 doesn't have nearly the strong chassis as the E86, but I do see your need for more space. There is a LOT more aftermarket product for the E46M3, that's for sure.

[mpower03]

I decided to keep the moupe... Justtine.for some refresh on it

[wyatth]

Sorry for the slight bump; hopefully this also serves as future reference for others.

Looking to pick up an E85/6M in the near future. Originally wanted an E46M ZCP as it had always been a dream car. I too think it looks better, but in the end I don't need the backseat, and the Z is cheaper.

Does the E85/6 have a stronger chassis? I search and do not find much about subframe reinforcement, which is a major turn off from the E46M. I am unsure where the line ends on which parts are shared between the two. Just footwork (brakes + suspension) and engine/diff?
The Z also has upgraded vanos parts over the E46, but I am not sure which exactly. Some bolts? The hub? Are the E46M's vanos problems alleviated on the E85/6?
Not thrilled about giving up the Getrag6 for the ZF, but at least the ZF also seems problem free, so overall the Z seems more reliable on all fronts.

[TexasZed4MC]

I did a great deal of research on this when selling my E30 M3. Based on nothing more than production numbers, the M Coupe is far the better deal. The E46 M3 was mass produced, and a VERY NICE one can be picked up for $20k easily. You can't touch the M Coupe year and mileage the same as the M3.

[wyatth]

^ First, a $20K M3 is going to be earlier production, higher miles, and few options. Second, 06 is the only year that you can compare "apples to apples."

A 2006 M3 ZCP is still more expensive than an 06 (or even 07, and probably 08) Z4M options/miles/colors equal (coupe's being a tad more than roadsters of course but still less than an M3 based on my recent research) ...

Rarity is a factor for value/price but that is only when you hold demand constant. Here, the rarity is offset by lower demand.
Fewer M coupe's built, and/because fewer people want them. They are pretty hardcore, as we all know.

I too find the value in the Z but not because it's more rare (because as above, there are fewer buyers). That's a perk, seeing fewer on the road. So mainly because it is more refined and seems like the better car with fewer issues for less $ - an obvious choice if you can get past the styling (I don't think the Z is a pretty car much less even close to the E46M which is gorgeous IMO, but I don't care much about that) and lack of a backseat (not a problem for me).

I'd just like to confirm that it does in fact have fewer issues - that the subframe and vanos problems that plagued the E46 were solved for the Z4M.

[epbrown]

Originally Posted by wyatth

Does the E85/6 have a stronger chassis? I search and do not find much about subframe reinforcement, which is a major turn off from the E46M.

The E86 (coupe) rates at 32,000Nm/degree, which is supercar/high-end luxury car territory:

BMW E46 sedan: 18,000 nm/deg (the M3 coupe s ~16,000, iirc)
Ford GT - 27,100 Nm/deg
Lamborghini Murcielago 20,000 Nm/deg
Pagani Zonda C12S - 25,000 Nm/deg
Pagani Zonda F - 27,000 Nm/degree
Porsche Carrera GT - 26,000Nm/degree
Koenigsegg CC8S: 28,100 Nm/deg
Ferrari F50: 34,600 Nm/deg
Lamborghini Gallardo: 23,000 Nm/deg
Rolls Royce Phantom : 40,500 nm/deg
Volkswagen Phaeton : 37,000 Nm/deg

[Swashplate]

Originally Posted by wyatth

^ First, a $20K M3 is going to be earlier production, higher miles, and few options. Second, 06 is the only year that you can compare "apples to apples."

A 2006 M3 ZCP is still more expensive than an 06 (or even 07, and probably 08) Z4M options/miles/colors equal (coupe's being a tad more than roadsters of course but still less than an M3 based on my recent research) ...

Rarity is a factor for value/price but that is only when you hold demand constant. Here, the rarity is offset by lower demand.
Fewer M coupe's built, and/because fewer people want them. They are pretty hardcore, as we all know.

I too find the value in the Z but not because it's more rare (because as above, there are fewer buyers). That's a perk, seeing fewer on the road. So mainly because it is more refined and seems like the better car with fewer issues for less $ - an obvious choice if you can get past the styling (I don't think the Z is a pretty car much less even close to the E46M which is gorgeous IMO, but I don't care much about that) and lack of a backseat (not a problem for me).

I'd just like to confirm that it does in fact have fewer issues - that the subframe and vanos problems that plagued the E46 were solved for the Z4M.

Couldn't have said it better myself. This was my ideal 1/4 life crisis machine.

[wyatth]

Originally Posted by epbrown

The E86 (coupe) rates at 32,000Nm/degree, which is supercar/high-end luxury car territory:

While impressive, this rigidity does not address my concern. I know the car is stiff, but I am wondering if the chassis suffers the from a similarly weak subframe. I don't think the E46 M3's subframe issue is because it can "only" handle 16,000 whateverunitsofwhatever vs the Z4M's 32,000 (though that's significant and does translate to handling abilities, I think the weak subframe is due to something else).

[epbrown]

Originally Posted by wyatth

I don't think the E46 M3's subframe issue is because it can "only" handle 16,000 whateverunitsofwhatever vs the Z4M's 32,000 (though that's significant and does translate to handling abilities, I think the weak subframe is due to something else).

Subframe tearing is due to chassis flex - the body flexes against the diff mounts, gradually causing the metal to weaken and tear. No flex, no tearing.

It's early in the conversation, but it looks to me like you want the M3 more, and weighing the pros and cons is going to be pretty pointless from here on out. My advice is to get your E46 M3, ideally a competition package car with 6-speed, do the subframe reinforcement, and post pics.

[prodigal_m]

Originally Posted by wyatth

While impressive, this rigidity does not address my concern. I know the car is stiff, but I am wondering if the chassis suffers the from a similarly weak subframe. I don't think the E46 M3's subframe issue is because it can "only" handle 16,000 whateverunitsofwhatever vs the Z4M's 32,000 (though that's significant and does translate to handling abilities, I think the weak subframe is due to something else).

While I do not necessarily agree with epbrown that subframe tearing is due to chassis flex (in my old MZ3 it was due to more of a mount/bushing issue than lack of rigidity), there are zero reports of any rear subframe/chassis issues with the MZ4. That said, enjoy your new M3!

[wyatth]

Haha. I may like the M3 more from an aesthetic and practical POV, but my mind and wallet (entry and maintenance) says Z.
That the Z does not suffer from the subframe or vanos problems reinforces (no pun) that.