Vid + Rvw: Road & Track Cayman R, 2011 Lotus Evora S & 2011 BMW 1 Series M Coupe

superchargedman · 07-26-2011, 11:42 AM

Video: http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/vi...ss-performance

Rvw: http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/co...track-trifecta

Red135 · 07-26-2011, 11:52 AM

At least they acknowledged that the Lotus is 30k more. (Cayman R: 19k) Still waiting on the R&T data panel for the 1M.

HALOTHANE · 07-26-2011, 12:24 PM

R T magazine, stick to camaro's and corvettes please! That is all your journalists understand.

b33g33 · 07-26-2011, 12:33 PM

So two stripped out track cars without rear seats, both costing around $80k beat a $50k 4-seater* with every amenity available in the price range by a second around a track.

This is why I would rather read "the news of the world" over R&D.

Maybe they could compare the 1M to the GT2 RS and the Veyron next?

Robert · 07-26-2011, 01:01 PM

The review is fair and balanced. I am not sure why there's such uproar, no one complained about price differentials in other magazines placed 1M #1 of the competition. Price is only an issue when 1M is not #1?

b33g33 · 07-26-2011, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert

The review is fair and balanced. I am not sure why there's such uproar, no one complained about price differentials in other magazines placed 1M #1 of the competition. Price is only an issue when 1M is not #1?

Actually, a lot of people questioned why everyone seemed to compared the 1M against the hardcore track-ready Cayman R and not the cheaper, less powerful S. Even the typically excellent EVO crew picked the R during their 4-way comparison of the 1M, Cayman, TT-RS and 370Z GT.

This review is as fair and balanced as a Fox News piece!

rad doc · 07-26-2011, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b33g33

So two stripped out track cars without rear seats, both costing around $80k beat a $50k 4-seater* with every amenity available in the price range by a second around a track.

This is why I would rather read "the news of the world" over R&D.

Maybe they could compare the 1M to the GT2 RS and the Veyron next?

Since when is the evora S a stripped out track car? True it doesn't have rear seats though I would hardly characterize the 1M seats as useful for much other than a briefcase.

I thought it was a fair review. They were complimentary of all 3 cars. Personally, I would rather not pay 80k for the baby brother Porsche that most would likely have not clue is special. Evora S is nice. However, I would not buy one new given how much Lotus tanks in value after the first 1-2 years!

clived · 07-26-2011, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b33g33

Even the typically excellent EVO crew picked the R during their 4-way comparison of the 1M, Cayman, TT-RS and 370Z GT.

No they didn't. The only car available to them from Porsche UK was an R. They didn't pick it. ;-)

JimD · 07-26-2011, 02:10 PM

The comparison basis - 300+ hp - is unusual and comparing an honest 4 seat car (the rear seat is plenty usable assuming it is like my 128i) to a couple of 2 seaters should somewhat dictate the outcome. But M cars are known for being 4 seat cars that compete with 2 seat cars. I think the article is fair if the comparison basis is a bit unusual. It makes me wonder what happens if the 1M gets carbon fiber brakes and other racing type hardware (like the Cayman R). Maybe it wins then and still costs the least. To be within a second despite being a coupe and not a sports car and costing quite a bit less seems like a solid competitive position for the 1M.

Jim

MRob · 07-26-2011, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert

The review is fair and balanced. I am not sure why there's such uproar, no one complained about price differentials in other magazines placed 1M #1 of the competition. Price is only an issue when 1M is not #1?

Yes, that is correct. You generally expect a much more expensive sports car to outperform the cheaper one.

MrRoboto · 07-26-2011, 03:26 PM

Well the 1M posted a track time within 1 second of the much more expensive 'track-built' Cayman R. Not bad in my book. It's obvious why Porsche doesn't want to see the 1M compete against the better suited Cayman S.

PS. How do they figure the CS is a 'complete package' without back seats, door handles, stereo, etc.

vantagesc · 07-26-2011, 03:32 PM

The reason you don't see comparison against the standard Evora and Cayman S is because those cars came out a long time ago. The Evora S and Cayman R are cars of the moment.

It's a fair review. You see how the 1M does against more focused sports cars and it did very well indeed. End of story.

b33g33 · 07-26-2011, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vantagesc

The reason you don't see comparison against the standard Evora and Cayman S is because those cars came out a long time ago. The Evora S and Cayman R are cars of the moment.

It's a fair review. You see how the 1M does against more focused sports cars and it did very well indeed. End of story.

This makes a lot of sense.

Clearly, since the last Cayman S rolled off the assembly line in 1875 and the Evora in 1890, it is unfair to compare their coal-powered performance against the 1M.

I feel so enlightened now.

The 1M is not 'new'. The only new thing that I can think of are the 'air curtains'. Everything else about the car is 5-10 year old tech. It's just that the whole seems to greater than the sum of it's parts.

superchargedman · 07-26-2011, 09:23 PM

after their comparo, autocar even reported that they would have had to buy a cayman s to compare it, as porsche only wants to offer up the R for this very reason.

superchargedman · 07-28-2011, 10:18 AM

Even though it's from a completely different article comparing the 458 and the mp4-12c, it captures the reason why the 1m has been such a contender to the m3 and the ttrs:

But while 0.2 second to 62 mph can look like a lot on a graph (if you zoom in really close), on the road you are certifiable if you get close to finding out the speed differentials between these two. If one of these two cars is leaving the other behind it on the road, then one has a more irresponsible driver. This is not a criticism, just a fact. Better, on the road, is not quicker; better is more engaging and more feelsome.

Surprisingly, insideline got this one right. Here's the article for interest: http://www.insideline.com/ferrari/45...n-mp4-12c.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by b33g33

Actually, a lot of people questioned why everyone seemed to compared the 1M against the hardcore track-ready Cayman R and not the cheaper, less powerful S. Even the typically excellent EVO crew picked the R during their 4-way comparison of the 1M, Cayman, TT-RS and 370Z GT.

This review is as fair and balanced as a Fox News piece!

vantagesc · 07-28-2011, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b33g33

This makes a lot of sense.

Clearly, since the last Cayman S rolled off the assembly line in 1875 and the Evora in 1890, it is unfair to compare their coal-powered performance against the 1M.

I feel so enlightened now.

The 1M is not 'new'. The only new thing that I can think of are the 'air curtains'. Everything else about the car is 5-10 year old tech. It's just that the whole seems to greater than the sum of it's parts.

Wow, way to miss the point entirely. It went right over your head.

I'm not saying they want to compare new technology, nor am I saying anything about fairness of the comparison. I'm saying that comparisons often involve cars that just came out because manufacturers tend to loan out their newest cars and magazines tend to write about the newer cars well.

07-26-2011, 11:42 AM	#1
superchargedman Captain 68 Rep 939 Posts Drives: The ///Mbulance: 1M AW Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Canada iTrader: (1)	Vid + Rvw: Road & Track Cayman R, 2011 Lotus Evora S & 2011 BMW 1 Series M Coupe Video: http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/vi...ss-performance Rvw: http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/co...track-trifecta
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07-26-2011, 11:52 AM	#2
Red135 La Flama Blanca 27 Rep 1,545 Posts Drives: 1-series Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Abq, NM iTrader: (1)	At least they acknowledged that the Lotus is 30k more. (Cayman R: 19k) Still waiting on the R&T data panel for the 1M.
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07-26-2011, 12:24 PM	#3
HALOTHANE First Lieutenant 36 Rep 391 Posts Drives: INTERLAGOS ZCP Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Anywhere fast iTrader: (0) Garage List 1990 BMW L6 (retired) [0.00] 2010 BMW 135i M-Spo ... [0.00] 2011 BMW 1M (adopted) [0.00] 1990 MERCEDES 190E ... [0.00] 2012 BMW M3 [1.00]	R T magazine, stick to camaro's and corvettes please! That is all your journalists understand.
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07-26-2011, 12:33 PM	#4
b33g33 Give '///M' Hell! 125 Rep 1,325 Posts Drives: Einser Rex Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Atlanta, GA iTrader: (0)	So two stripped out track cars without rear seats, both costing around $80k beat a $50k 4-seater* with every amenity available in the price range by a second around a track. This is why I would rather read "the news of the world" over R&D. Maybe they could compare the 1M to the GT2 RS and the Veyron next? __________________ The 1 series M is the most badass, coolest, sickest BMW to debut since the 1988 M3. The E30 M3 finally has a successor. Please welcome the stupidly fast, wickedly tempered, awkwardly named, possibly perfect little son of a benchmark - Automobile Magazine, August 2011
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07-26-2011, 01:01 PM	#5
Robert Major General 417 Rep 6,968 Posts Drives: 135i -> is350 -> Tesla M3 perf Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Socal iTrader: (1)	The review is fair and balanced. I am not sure why there's such uproar, no one complained about price differentials in other magazines placed 1M #1 of the competition. Price is only an issue when 1M is not #1? __________________ - There's nothing in my pocket other than knives and lint
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07-26-2011, 02:10 PM	#9
JimD Brigadier General 368 Rep 3,547 Posts Drives: 128i convertible Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Lexington, SC iTrader: (0)	The comparison basis - 300+ hp - is unusual and comparing an honest 4 seat car (the rear seat is plenty usable assuming it is like my 128i) to a couple of 2 seaters should somewhat dictate the outcome. But M cars are known for being 4 seat cars that compete with 2 seat cars. I think the article is fair if the comparison basis is a bit unusual. It makes me wonder what happens if the 1M gets carbon fiber brakes and other racing type hardware (like the Cayman R). Maybe it wins then and still costs the least. To be within a second despite being a coupe and not a sports car and costing quite a bit less seems like a solid competitive position for the 1M. Jim __________________ 128i Convertible, MT, Alpine White, Black Top, Taupe Leatherette, Walnut, Sport Ordered 5/22/09, Completed 6/4/09, At Port 6/9/09, On the Georgia Highway 6/13/09, Ship Arrived Charleston 6/24/09 at 10pm, PCD 7/21/09
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07-26-2011, 03:26 PM	#11
MrRoboto Brigadier General 1846 Rep 4,836 Posts Drives: VO 1M Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Canada iTrader: (0)	Well the 1M posted a track time within 1 second of the much more expensive 'track-built' Cayman R. Not bad in my book. It's obvious why Porsche doesn't want to see the 1M compete against the better suited Cayman S. PS. How do they figure the CS is a 'complete package' without back seats, door handles, stereo, etc.
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07-26-2011, 03:32 PM	#12
vantagesc First Lieutenant 45 Rep 365 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	The reason you don't see comparison against the standard Evora and Cayman S is because those cars came out a long time ago. The Evora S and Cayman R are cars of the moment. It's a fair review. You see how the 1M does against more focused sports cars and it did very well indeed. End of story.
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07-26-2011, 09:23 PM	#14
superchargedman Captain 68 Rep 939 Posts Drives: The ///Mbulance: 1M AW Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Canada iTrader: (1)	after their comparo, autocar even reported that they would have had to buy a cayman s to compare it, as porsche only wants to offer up the R for this very reason.
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