Slight dilema, need your advice

Z3Z4MC · 12-07-2010, 01:10 PM

My 07 Z4MC is still under warranty, and is up for the valve adjustment service.

However, I have heard nothing but horrible experiences from owners dealing with dealerships and quality of work.

I currently work for a performance shop and the tech here is more than qualify to do such work, and I know it will be done right. However, I feel stupid not taking advantage of the free maintenance package by BMW.

What are your thoughts and feedback on your own experience with such work performed under warranty by a BMW dealership?

onebluemcm · 12-07-2010, 01:16 PM

Well, I'll put it this way. I just took mine in for Inspection 1, 24000 miles on the car. All I got was an oil change and was told "Valve adjustment!?! We've seen so few out of spec that we don't even do that anymore." Upon hearing that, I said to myself, there is no way I'm going to force the issue because as soon as I do and they agree to do it, I'll end up with something f'd up. If they are going to be that way, the hell with them.

So, you may not have to worry about it because they just might not do it, even though it's pretty widely accepted that the S54 should have this checked. They make up their own rules....

Mine now out of warranty, so I'll be doing it myself or finding an indie.

Good Luck!

jmillet · 12-07-2010, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z3Z4MC

My 07 Z4MC is still under warranty, and is up for the valve adjustment service.

However, I have heard nothing but horrible experiences from owners dealing with dealerships and quality of work.

I currently work for a performance shop and the tech here is more than qualify to do such work, and I know it will be done right. However, I feel stupid not taking advantage of the free maintenance package by BMW.

What are your thoughts and feedback on your own experience with such work performed under warranty by a BMW dealership?

Depends on the reputation of your dealership's Service Department. We have three BMW dealers in the Seattle area and I would only trust my service needs to one of them: BMW Seattle. I know my Service Advisor and several of the techs and trust them to do professional work.
That being said I do all my own scheduled services to include oil, Inspection I, and Inspection II. If I need warranty work like a recent power steering expansion hose replacement I entrust my Bimmer to the folks at BMW Seattle. For the past 15 years I have never been disappointed with their competency and level of service.

Z3Z4MC · 12-07-2010, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onebluemcm

Well, I'll put it this way. I just took mine in for Inspection 1, 24000 miles on the car. All I got was an oil change and was told "Valve adjustment!?! We've seen so few out of spec that we don't even do that anymore." Upon hearing that, I said to myself, there is no way I'm going to force the issue because as soon as I do and they agree to do it, I'll end up with something f'd up. If they are going to be that way, the hell with them.

So, you may not have to worry about it because they just might not do it, even though it's pretty widely accepted that the S54 should have this checked. They make up their own rules....

Mine now out of warranty, so I'll be doing it myself or finding an indie.

Good Luck!

With my luck, they will probably tell me the same thing.
Thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmillet

Depends on the reputation of your dealership's Service Department. We have three BMW dealers in the Seattle area and I would only trust my service needs to one of them: BMW Seattle. I know my Service Advisor and several of the techs and trust them to do professional work.
That being said I do all my own scheduled services to include oil, Inspection I, and Inspection II. If I need warranty work like a recent power steering expansion hose replacement I entrust my Bimmer to the folks at BMW Seattle. For the past 15 years I have never been disappointed with their competency and level of service.

Unfortunately, i'm here in northern VA.
So, if anyone has a good dealership that they can recommend, please do.
Include a specific tech name would be even better.

Thanks.

wildag · 12-07-2010, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z3Z4MC

Unfortunately, i'm here in northern VA.
So, if anyone has a good dealership that they can recommend, please do.
Include a specific tech name would be even better.

Thanks.

Fairfax took my car and returned it within a few hours. I doubt they actually did anything.

See this thread for a DIY day at a local do it yourself shop.

http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=461993

You're welcome to join!

HOG4DNR · 12-07-2010, 02:59 PM

I have a few more miles to drive before that service is due, but to be honest, if I don't think the dealer is up to the job, I would have one of my qualified friends to do it.

I would rather throw a $100 or more to my friend to have piece of mind, and know it was done right and not rushed.

mhughett · 12-07-2010, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOG4DNR

I have a few more miles to drive before that service is due, but to be honest, if I don't think the dealer is up to the job, I would have one of my qualified friends to do it.

I would rather throw a $100 or more to my friend to have piece of mind, and know it was done right and not rushed.

If you are talking about the Inspection I or II that includes the valve adjustment, you left a "0" out of your estimate above.

wildag · 12-07-2010, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhughett

If you are talking about the Inspection I or II that includes the valve adjustment, you left a "0" out of your estimate above.

Lol yea...

The tools alone for the valve adjustment cost me $450. Not to mention the parts for another $100 or so. Plus the 2-3 hours of labor time.

Pheonix · 12-07-2010, 04:02 PM

One dealer in Western Massachusetts quoted me $870 (plus tax). They said it takes about 6 hours to complete the job ( I believe their labor rate is around $120/hour). I will be in a similar situation as the OP sometime next summer!

HOG4DNR · 12-07-2010, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhughett

If you are talking about the Inspection I or II that includes the valve adjustment, you left a "0" out of your estimate above.

The guys I work with would come in on a Saturday and do the job for me for nothing. I would tip him $100 or more and maybe throw in a lunch or dinner during the week.

blender · 12-07-2010, 05:24 PM

I've been around this issue a bunch recently.

Pros for indy shop:

I can say I definitely get competent, proper service at WELL QUALIFIED shops.

More importantly, I get what I ask for, rather than what some guideline tells the dealer they should do. I can be sure my mechanic properly torques the bolts when I ask him to, and provide him a spec.
__
No issue with third-party components on the car.
__
You can talk to the guy actually DOING the work, and usually walk around under your car

More likely to get a heads-up about other things the mechanic might notice or suspect. Dealers rarely give that info. File this one under 'common sense'.

Cons for indy shop:

Out of pocket costs,
no loaner car,
possible wait for parts.
possible quality issues if unknown shop

Pros for average dealer experience:

No cost on warranty service.
Factory parts used.
Possible free loaner car.
The service shop keeps the lights on at most dealerships. They NEED your business.

Cons for average Dealer experience:

Issues/excuses with third-party components in car
.
Immense lack of common sense at many dealerships. see my VANOS service post for most recent debacle.
.
They must 'follow procedures' instead of actually fixing problems
.
They won't tell you about observed problems outside the current case
.
Work can be SLOPPY/ Lazy; they don't follow their own service procedures ( overfilled oil anyone?)
.
You have to filter everything you try to tell them through the SA. If he's dense or apathetic, you're screwed.
.
You typically won't know the guy who will actually work on your car, and the typical SA actively isolates and discourages you from talking to the mechanics.
.
Conveyor-belt mentality: turn cars around quickly instead of fixing everything that really needs fixing.

Thoughts on maximizing your odds of a successful dealer service:

Do your homework on any serious issues before you go to the dealer. You may have to lead them BY THE NOSE to the resolution on your problem. ANTICIPATE having to micro-manage them to success. Be pleasantly surprised if it turns out you don't have to.
.
Use the rule "Trust but Verify". Tell them what you want done, trust them to do it, and VERIFY [a] that it got done properly and [b] that they didn't screw anything else up in the process.
.
Find the least-worst dealer in your area, as rated by customers. Try the forums here, or dealerRater-dot-com
_
Call the service manager directly, and ask him to recommend a service adviser who is technical and knowledgeable. Explain you want someone with mechanical expertise who is technically proficient.
_
THEN call the Service Adviser, mentioning that the service manager referred you to him. This allies you with the service manager in the SA's mind. Ask him if he's ever installed coil-overs, or where the redline is on an S54 motor. If you get a bad feeling from the guy, change SAs.
_
ASK the adviser for his "A" game. Tell him you love your car and you pay close attention to everything that's done on it. This sets the expectation that your are WATCHING THEM CLOSELY on how they fix your car.
_
Request politely but firmly that the Shop Foreman or a master mechanic be the one to work on your car. This is not a grocery-getter sedan and should not be treated like one.
_
Be ready to involve the Service Manager in every discussion. Give him a chance to fix any problems by offering him "a chance to win back your business."
_
Inspect your car THOROUGHLY before your drive it off the lot - inside and out. The dealer lot monkeys are NOT careful with customer cars, especially lowered ones. Check your leather seats and wheels for gouges. Check under the hood with the motor running for noises, leaks or missing accessories like strut tower bar caps.
_
Check your fluid levels and caps if the dealer has touched anything. Check the valve cover gasket for pinches or leaks.
_
Keep every service receipt on your car for at least a year. Ask for a written record of the valve shim measurements on inspection I/II. BMW has a form for this; print it out, take it with you and hand it to the SA with a request that it be completed anytime the valves are adjusted.
_
EXPLICITLY state what kind of fluids are to be used, and how much. Leave no room for error.
_
Keep your own service log on a notepad in the glovebox. I like the small Moleskin notebooks for this.

That's been my experience with the overall crummy BMW dealerships here in LA. Two were decent; three were awful.

Swashplate · 12-07-2010, 05:40 PM

Good Post !!!

Summwilson5 · 12-08-2010, 04:16 PM

I too have had excellent service at BMW Seattle. Someone always takes excellent care of me. Its so nice to here that I am not the only one and that they are running a very nice store!

Thisisdudewhoru · 12-08-2010, 08:46 PM

So I'm about to take my car in for service tomorrow. I have 29500 miles. Last warrantied oil change was 14500. I'm guessing they'll want me to do service I won't they? This is covered under the free maintenance warranty, correct? Sorry for so many questions this is my first dealership visit. First bmw I've owned. I guess if valve adjustment takes 6 hours, they'll need to keep the car overnight since my appointment is at 3pm? Do we get free loaners? Just trying to figure out what I should expect so I don't get jerked around and have to pay for something I shouldn't have.

pokeybritches · 12-09-2010, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thisisdudewhoru

Do we get free loaners?

Depends entirely on the dealership. I had BMW of Visalia give me a 335i loaner with barely 300 miles on the clock (first car I've ever put most of the miles on!) and Weber BMW (Fresno) give me a Cobalt from Enterprise, only because I had to leave the car overnight for the valve adjustment... otherwise I would have been SOL.

If they actually do the valve adjustment you will probably need to leave the car overnight. Just give them a call and ask.

blender · 12-13-2010, 12:39 AM

Valves can be done in a day, easily, if they start on it first thing. Early Mondays are your best bet as there are no/few cars ahead of you. Set it up with the SA in advance. If you go tues-Fri expect it to be there overnight.

General rule on loaners in my experience is : only if you bought the car from them, or are having a serious problem worked on and you've involved the service manager ( i.e. they want to keep you happy)

Otherwise be prepared to rent a car or make "alternate arrangements"

fastdad · 12-13-2010, 09:27 PM

Had mine done but only after I asked about it at 25k miles. Asked who would do it and their experience with these motors. Done overnight. I would ask as much as possible to feel comfortable - might as well use the 'free' service as much as possible. My car is out of warranty in two weeks so I wanted to make sure it was done ASAP.

12-07-2010, 01:10 PM	#1
Z3Z4MC Private 0 Rep 80 Posts Drives: Z4MC Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: usa iTrader: (0)	Slight dilema, need your advice My 07 Z4MC is still under warranty, and is up for the valve adjustment service. However, I have heard nothing but horrible experiences from owners dealing with dealerships and quality of work. I currently work for a performance shop and the tech here is more than qualify to do such work, and I know it will be done right. However, I feel stupid not taking advantage of the free maintenance package by BMW. What are your thoughts and feedback on your own experience with such work performed under warranty by a BMW dealership? __________________
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12-07-2010, 01:16 PM	#2
onebluemcm Captain 42 Rep 632 Posts Drives: '07 Z4MC Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Richmond, VA iTrader: (0)	Well, I'll put it this way. I just took mine in for Inspection 1, 24000 miles on the car. All I got was an oil change and was told "Valve adjustment!?! We've seen so few out of spec that we don't even do that anymore." Upon hearing that, I said to myself, there is no way I'm going to force the issue because as soon as I do and they agree to do it, I'll end up with something f'd up. If they are going to be that way, the hell with them. So, you may not have to worry about it because they just might not do it, even though it's pretty widely accepted that the S54 should have this checked. They make up their own rules.... Mine now out of warranty, so I'll be doing it myself or finding an indie. Good Luck! __________________ \|=.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-.=\| Silbergrau A08 / Sepang Brown LSD6 / Carbon Leather 4MY (1 of 3, this combo) RAC RG63 \| Conti EC-DW \| GC/Koni-Dinan \| Rogue RSM \| Arqray \| Autosolutions \| BMW brace \| Pinnacle tint
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12-07-2010, 02:59 PM	#6
HOG4DNR Second Lieutenant 37 Rep 243 Posts Drives: 2014 M235i Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Pompano Beach, FL iTrader: (5)	I have a few more miles to drive before that service is due, but to be honest, if I don't think the dealer is up to the job, I would have one of my qualified friends to do it. I would rather throw a $100 or more to my friend to have piece of mind, and know it was done right and not rushed. __________________ 2008 Z4MC #1786/1815 "The Last IB w/ Extended Leather Made" Gone but Not Forgotten 2014 M235i E.Blue Mods in Progress
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12-07-2010, 04:02 PM	#9
Pheonix Major 378 Rep 1,001 Posts Drives: 2007 Z4 M Coupe 2012 e93 M3 Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bay Area, CA iTrader: (8) Garage List 2007 BMW/Z4MC [0.00]	One dealer in Western Massachusetts quoted me $870 (plus tax). They said it takes about 6 hours to complete the job ( I believe their labor rate is around $120/hour). I will be in a similar situation as the OP sometime next summer!
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12-07-2010, 05:24 PM	#11
blender Custom User Title 145 Rep 661 Posts Drives: black Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: n iTrader: (0)	service thoughts I've been around this issue a bunch recently. Pros for indy shop: I can say I definitely get competent, proper service at WELL QUALIFIED shops. More importantly, I get what I ask for, rather than what some guideline tells the dealer they should do. I can be sure my mechanic properly torques the bolts when I ask him to, and provide him a spec. __ No issue with third-party components on the car. __ You can talk to the guy actually DOING the work, and usually walk around under your car More likely to get a heads-up about other things the mechanic might notice or suspect. Dealers rarely give that info. File this one under 'common sense'. Cons for indy shop: Out of pocket costs, no loaner car, possible wait for parts. possible quality issues if unknown shop Pros for average dealer experience: No cost on warranty service. Factory parts used. Possible free loaner car. The service shop keeps the lights on at most dealerships. They NEED your business. Cons for average Dealer experience: Issues/excuses with third-party components in car . Immense lack of common sense at many dealerships. see my VANOS service post for most recent debacle. . They must 'follow procedures' instead of actually fixing problems . They won't tell you about observed problems outside the current case . Work can be SLOPPY/ Lazy; they don't follow their own service procedures ( overfilled oil anyone?) . You have to filter everything you try to tell them through the SA. If he's dense or apathetic, you're screwed. . You typically won't know the guy who will actually work on your car, and the typical SA actively isolates and discourages you from talking to the mechanics. . Conveyor-belt mentality: turn cars around quickly instead of fixing everything that really needs fixing. Thoughts on maximizing your odds of a successful dealer service: Do your homework on any serious issues before you go to the dealer. You may have to lead them BY THE NOSE to the resolution on your problem. ANTICIPATE having to micro-manage them to success. Be pleasantly surprised if it turns out you don't have to. . Use the rule "Trust but Verify". Tell them what you want done, trust them to do it, and VERIFY [a] that it got done properly and [b] that they didn't screw anything else up in the process. . Find the least-worst dealer in your area, as rated by customers. Try the forums here, or dealerRater-dot-com _ Call the service manager directly, and ask him to recommend a service adviser who is technical and knowledgeable. Explain you want someone with mechanical expertise who is technically proficient. _ THEN call the Service Adviser, mentioning that the service manager referred you to him. This allies you with the service manager in the SA's mind. Ask him if he's ever installed coil-overs, or where the redline is on an S54 motor. If you get a bad feeling from the guy, change SAs. _ ASK the adviser for his "A" game. Tell him you love your car and you pay close attention to everything that's done on it. This sets the expectation that your are WATCHING THEM CLOSELY on how they fix your car. _ Request politely but firmly that the Shop Foreman or a master mechanic be the one to work on your car. This is not a grocery-getter sedan and should not be treated like one. _ Be ready to involve the Service Manager in every discussion. Give him a chance to fix any problems by offering him "a chance to win back your business." _ Inspect your car THOROUGHLY before your drive it off the lot - inside and out. The dealer lot monkeys are NOT careful with customer cars, especially lowered ones. Check your leather seats and wheels for gouges. Check under the hood with the motor running for noises, leaks or missing accessories like strut tower bar caps. _ Check your fluid levels and caps if the dealer has touched anything. Check the valve cover gasket for pinches or leaks. _ Keep every service receipt on your car for at least a year. Ask for a written record of the valve shim measurements on inspection I/II. BMW has a form for this; print it out, take it with you and hand it to the SA with a request that it be completed anytime the valves are adjusted. _ EXPLICITLY state what kind of fluids are to be used, and how much. Leave no room for error. _ Keep your own service log on a notepad in the glovebox. I like the small Moleskin notebooks for this. That's been my experience with the overall crummy BMW dealerships here in LA. Two were decent; three were awful. Last edited by blender; 12-07-2010 at 07:43 PM..
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12-07-2010, 05:40 PM	#12
Swashplate Major 111 Rep 1,351 Posts Drives: in Anger. Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Newcastle, WA iTrader: (2) Garage List 2009 Mercedes ML320 ... [0.00] 2013 BMW M5 [0.00] 2007 BMW M Coupe' [0.00]	Good Post !!! __________________ Gone (2006 STI, 2008 EVO MR, 1968 Mustang) AFE Intake/Euro Cats/CSL Headers/Sportline CSL/H&R Springs 1217/1815 !!! BOILER UP !!!
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12-08-2010, 04:16 PM	#13
Summwilson5 Registered 0 Rep 1 Posts Drives: Black 2010 BMW1 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Seattle, WA iTrader: (0)	In reply to Jmillet I too have had excellent service at BMW Seattle. Someone always takes excellent care of me. Its so nice to here that I am not the only one and that they are running a very nice store! Last edited by Summwilson5; 12-08-2010 at 04:21 PM..
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12-08-2010, 08:46 PM	#14
Thisisdudewhoru Captain 82 Rep 698 Posts Drives: 16 BSM 340i Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: 423 iTrader: (1)	So I'm about to take my car in for service tomorrow. I have 29500 miles. Last warrantied oil change was 14500. I'm guessing they'll want me to do service I won't they? This is covered under the free maintenance warranty, correct? Sorry for so many questions this is my first dealership visit. First bmw I've owned. I guess if valve adjustment takes 6 hours, they'll need to keep the car overnight since my appointment is at 3pm? Do we get free loaners? Just trying to figure out what I should expect so I don't get jerked around and have to pay for something I shouldn't have. __________________ '16 BSM 340i M Sport + Track Pack.:.M Perf Exhaust.:.Polished BBS RS-GT.:.JB4.:.BMS Intake.:.H&R Sport.:.
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12-13-2010, 12:39 AM	#16
blender Custom User Title 145 Rep 661 Posts Drives: black Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: n iTrader: (0)	Valves can be done in a day, easily, if they start on it first thing. Early Mondays are your best bet as there are no/few cars ahead of you. Set it up with the SA in advance. If you go tues-Fri expect it to be there overnight. General rule on loaners in my experience is : only if you bought the car from them, or are having a serious problem worked on and you've involved the service manager ( i.e. they want to keep you happy) Otherwise be prepared to rent a car or make "alternate arrangements"
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12-13-2010, 09:27 PM	#17
fastdad New Member 2 Rep 15 Posts Drives: 06 M Roadster Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Chicago Burbs iTrader: (0)	Had mine done but only after I asked about it at 25k miles. Asked who would do it and their experience with these motors. Done overnight. I would ask as much as possible to feel comfortable - might as well use the 'free' service as much as possible. My car is out of warranty in two weeks so I wanted to make sure it was done ASAP.
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