Where is the power going.

1MORELAP · 09-21-2010, 11:15 PM

How come 414 HP car dynoes at 325 WHP? That is, what 20% drive train loss??? Not even Audi Quattro cars loose that much power!!! This does NOT make any sense to me.

Has this been discussed, I would have assumed yes, but my search did not reveal anything.

Dave07997S · 09-22-2010, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1MORELAP

How come 414 HP car dynoes at 325 WHP? That is, what 20% drive train loss??? Not even Audi Quattro cars loose that much power!!! This does NOT make any sense to me.

Has this been discussed, I would have assumed yes, but my search did not reveal anything.

I think alot of the cars that are dynoing in that range are running on 91 octane fuel. BMW rates the 414hp with 93 octane fuel, there have been reports that as much as 20rwhp can be gained by going to 93 octane fuel. I know Pencil Geek went from the 340 range to over 360hp with just using 100octane fuel. Once you go beyond 94-95 octane though there probably isn't more to be gained. Most of the gains will come from using 93 octane.

Dave

schnell325 · 09-22-2010, 12:26 AM

Another possible factor may be the type of dyno (Mustang) or an improperly calibrated dyno too.

See first post for thoughts on the Mustang dyno:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=434042

1MORELAP · 09-22-2010, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schnell325

Another possible factor may be the type of dyno (Mustang) or an improperly calibrated dyno too.

See first post for thoughts on the Mustang dyno:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=434042

OK, maybe 325 is on the lower end. But 335 is pretty average. The 93 Octane rating does makes sense...

Still high teens for power loss. I dynoed my 295 HP Cayman S along with a stock M3. He got 333 I got 289... this is for a 414HP and 269 HP cars respectively...

Crazy Bimmer · 09-22-2010, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1MORELAP

OK, maybe 325 is on the lower end. But 335 is pretty average. The 93 Octane rating does makes sense...

Still high teens for power loss. I dynoed my 295 HP Cayman S along with a stock M3. He got 333 I got 289... this is for a 414HP and 269 HP cars respectively...

Next step is to take it to the drag strip to compare.

1MORELAP · 09-22-2010, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Bimmer

Next step is to take it to the drag strip to compare.

I have never seen a Cayman S beat the M3. Well without turbos, etc.

Crazy Bimmer · 09-22-2010, 08:59 PM

No? I thought the Cayman S would have an advantage since it weighs much less.

swamp2 · 09-22-2010, 09:22 PM

Losses are from (roughly in order of importance): Axles, transmission, differential, tires and alternator, probably in the range of 5%, 3%, 3%, 3%, 1%. The 3% figure is speed dependent and about the right peak loss in a 3rd gear dyno. No way an M3 has 20% loss.

kmarei · 09-22-2010, 09:38 PM

i'm surprised no one has blamed the 20% loss on Obama

LateBraking · 09-22-2010, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmarei

i'm surprised no one has blamed the 20% loss on Obama

...You're kidding me, right? Damn it, well that won't do, let me be the first to do so then!

schnell325 · 09-22-2010, 11:16 PM

1cleanm6 · 09-23-2010, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmarei

i'm surprised no one has blamed the 20% loss on Obama

lmfao!

MrHarris · 09-23-2010, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmarei

i'm surprised no one has blamed the 20% loss on Obama

J08M3 · 09-23-2010, 07:23 AM

He's taking 20% and giving it to the less fortunate cars....

after all it's not fair that some cars should have more power than others..... even if they cost more

kmarei · 09-23-2010, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iBeJayKaying

...You're kidding me, right? Damn it, well that won't do, let me be the first to do so then!

Back in the Bush days
we only lost about 13% !!!!
damn democrats!

Dave07997S · 09-23-2010, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J08M3

He's taking 20% and giving it to the less fortunate cars....

after all it's not fair that some cars should have more power than others..... even if they cost more

LOL..

King Tut · 09-23-2010, 10:08 AM

This thread is hillarious. I think it is obvious that BMW choose to overrate the output of the S65 just like they choose to underrate the N54.

ssemerod · 09-23-2010, 10:22 AM

well actually p cars and bmw are not considered foreign born any longer, i know those that have seen the paperwork, but I can't share that with you

FStop7 · 09-23-2010, 11:56 AM

Meh, the S65 always seems to dyno kind of low and yet real world performance results show it's making its advertised power, if not more. Goes to show that chassis dynos don't tell the whole story.

swamp2 · 09-23-2010, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Tut

This thread is hillarious. I think it is obvious that BMW choose to overrate the output of the S65 just like they choose to underrate the N54.

Uhhh no. S65 output is quite consistent with most dynos and real world performance. N54 is under-rated for sure.

King Tut · 09-23-2010, 02:26 PM

Just under 20% drivetrain loss seems a little high to me. I think they did overrate it a little.

Dodge2Dub · 09-23-2010, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

I think alot of the cars that are dynoing in that range are running on 91 octane fuel. BMW rates the 414hp with 93 octane fuel, there have been reports that as much as 20rwhp can be gained by going to 93 octane fuel. I know Pencil Geek went from the 340 range to over 360hp with just using 100octane fuel. Once you go beyond 94-95 octane though there probably isn't more to be gained. Most of the gains will come from using 93 octane.

Dave

Do you use an octane booster to bump to 93 or do a 100 octane mix (assuming you are running at 93 or above in PDR, CA)?

09-21-2010, 11:15 PM	#1
1MORELAP Captain 99 Rep 700 Posts Drives: '22 911 GTS '19 X3, X5, X7 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Seattle, WA iTrader: (0)	Where is the power going. How come 414 HP car dynoes at 325 WHP? That is, what 20% drive train loss??? Not even Audi Quattro cars loose that much power!!! This does NOT make any sense to me. Has this been discussed, I would have assumed yes, but my search did not reveal anything. __________________ I apologize for spelling mistakes up front, they are a result of multitasking.
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09-22-2010, 12:26 AM	#3
schnell325 Bored at work.... 890 Rep 5,391 Posts Drives: 2016 F82 M4 GTS//2022 M235iGC Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Comox Valley iTrader: (8)	Another possible factor may be the type of dyno (Mustang) or an improperly calibrated dyno too. See first post for thoughts on the Mustang dyno: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=434042 __________________ Grey Matter:2008 E92 M3:608/425. SG/PS SOLD! Dark Matter:2015 F80 M3:495/505. SOLD! Anti Matter :2016 F82 M4 GTS What next?!? A 2022 M235i GC- I must be getting old
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09-22-2010, 08:59 PM	#7
Crazy Bimmer The Jesal 391 Rep 5,859 Posts Drives: E90 M3 Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Chicago IL iTrader: (20) Garage List 2009 BMW M3 [0.00]	No? I thought the Cayman S would have an advantage since it weighs much less. __________________ 2009 E90 M3 - SOLD
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09-22-2010, 09:22 PM	#8
swamp2 Lieutenant General 611 Rep 10,407 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: San Diego, CA USA iTrader: (3)	Losses are from (roughly in order of importance): Axles, transmission, differential, tires and alternator, probably in the range of 5%, 3%, 3%, 3%, 1%. The 3% figure is speed dependent and about the right peak loss in a 3rd gear dyno. No way an M3 has 20% loss. __________________ E92 M3 \| Space Gray on Fox Red \| M-DCT \| CF Roof \| RAC RG63 Wheels \| Brembo 380mm BBK \| \| Vorsteiner Ti Exhaust \| Matte Black Grilles/Side Gills/Rear Emblem/Mirrors \| \| Alekshop Back up Camera \| GP Thunders \| BMW Aluminum Pedals \| Elite Angels \| \| XPEL Full Front Wrap \| Hardwired V1 \| Interior Xenon Light Kit \|
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09-22-2010, 09:38 PM	#9
kmarei Major General 687 Rep 6,845 Posts Drives: 2018 Audi RS5 coupe Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Reston, VA iTrader: (34) Garage List 2018 Audi RS5 [0.00]	i'm surprised no one has blamed the 20% loss on Obama
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09-22-2010, 11:16 PM	#11
schnell325 Bored at work.... 890 Rep 5,391 Posts Drives: 2016 F82 M4 GTS//2022 M235iGC Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Comox Valley iTrader: (8)	__________________ Grey Matter:2008 E92 M3:608/425. SG/PS SOLD! Dark Matter:2015 F80 M3:495/505. SOLD! Anti Matter :2016 F82 M4 GTS What next?!? A 2022 M235i GC- I must be getting old
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09-23-2010, 07:23 AM	#14
J08M3 Major General 286 Rep 6,007 Posts Drives: 2011 M3 COUPE Join Date: May 2008 Location: NEW YORK iTrader: (8)	He's taking 20% and giving it to the less fortunate cars.... after all it's not fair that some cars should have more power than others..... even if they cost more __________________
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09-23-2010, 10:08 AM	#17
King Tut NASA SpecE30 Racer 82 Rep 1,307 Posts Drives: 2006 Honda S2000 TT3 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Gulf Breeze, FL iTrader: (2)	This thread is hillarious. I think it is obvious that BMW choose to overrate the output of the S65 just like they choose to underrate the N54. __________________ King Tut 2012 BMW M3 Individual: Sold lsb.ridedomain.com 1987 BMW 325is SpecE30: spece30.ridedomain.com 2009 BMW M3 Coupe: Sold e92.ridedomain.com
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09-23-2010, 10:22 AM	#18
ssemerod Private 1 Rep 70 Posts Drives: 2008 e92 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: california iTrader: (0)	well actually p cars and bmw are not considered foreign born any longer, i know those that have seen the paperwork, but I can't share that with you
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09-23-2010, 11:56 AM	#19
FStop7 I like cars 329 Rep 5,052 Posts Drives: M6 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Newbury Park, CA iTrader: (3)	Meh, the S65 always seems to dyno kind of low and yet real world performance results show it's making its advertised power, if not more. Goes to show that chassis dynos don't tell the whole story.
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09-23-2010, 02:26 PM	#21
King Tut NASA SpecE30 Racer 82 Rep 1,307 Posts Drives: 2006 Honda S2000 TT3 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Gulf Breeze, FL iTrader: (2)	Just under 20% drivetrain loss seems a little high to me. I think they did overrate it a little. __________________ King Tut 2012 BMW M3 Individual: Sold lsb.ridedomain.com 1987 BMW 325is SpecE30: spece30.ridedomain.com 2009 BMW M3 Coupe: Sold e92.ridedomain.com
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