Poor throttle response-power lag

RPM90 · 09-18-2010, 12:00 AM

I need to know how many other 135i drives have this condition with their cars. I've posted about this in other threads, but I need to make a new thread strictly about this.

I think this is more pertinent to manual drivers, and Step and DCT drivers in manual mode.

Here's the description of what I'm talking about:
In gear, let's say 3rd, at about 4k rpm, so I'm right in the meat of the band.
In a steady cruise, meaning not accelerating or decelerating, punch the throttle fully. My engine takes a second to respond, meaning no meaningful acceleration is happening. Then, the power comes on strong, and another split second and the power comes on fully.
This lag is really bothering me, cause I don't recall having this condition until the software update I had in May.

I can repeat this condition every time in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, higher gears and the speed is too high to be at 4k rpm.
Also, it's not just at 4k rpm. I'm using that number just for example.
I could be in 2nd at 5k, or 3rd at 3k, it does this all the time.

From a stop I don't feel much lag, cause on a hard launch I rev to around 4k, modulate the clutch quickly and I'm off.
But, in a roll on there is distinct lag and big lack of throttle response.

This bothers me even more so cause today I drove a 328xi Step loaner while my 135i was in the shop. I put the 3 in manual mode and repeat the steps I describe above and the 3 simply responds, like, RIGHT NOW, instant throttle response, and much much better throttle/power modulation. Staying in gear at high rpm, all I had to do was give a bit more throttle and the engine responds. Let of a bit and give bigger input, and it just responds, no hesitation.

My 135i doesn't /can't do this. I know it wasn't this bad before that software update. Sure, there is always a bit of lag in any turbo, even in our 135i, but it's very slight and nearly imperceptible. But, not now.
It's really bugging me and starting to piss me off after driving the 328i.
I know that NA engines, especially one as good as a BMW, have excellent throttle response, but the difference here is night and day.

Can some of you post what your experience is when you do what I described above? I need to know if it's just my car, or if it happens to only the cars with the latest software update since around May?

I described this to the BMW tech that rode with me, and I demonstrated it for him. He felt it and knew what I was saying. But, he also said that they might not be able to do anything about it. He didn't say why though.
Is it because the software sucks and they have nothing to put in it's place?
Or, is it just the way the engine works, so live with it?
I can't accept the latter because I don't recall my 135i under performing like this before that update.

I've been on threads commenting on how good, for a turbo, our throttle response is. But now, I can't say that. It downright sucks.

Could this be related to excessive carbon build up?

The tech found no codes, but I didn't expect he would. If this software is designed to lessen the load on the HPFP, then maybe the software is doing what it's been programmed to do, so it won't trigger a code.
Still, I feel it, and I can demonstrate it repeatedly.

So, please post what you guys experience, or if you have this already.
One forum member has already verified that his 135i does this too since his software update.

Post the year, trans, and if you've had a software update where you didn't feel the engine was the same, and when you last received a software update. If you have the software version that would be great too.

MarkR171 · 09-18-2010, 01:04 AM

Only happens to me if I punch the throttle fully from a stop. Otherwise, if I'm in gear, there's no (noticeable) delay.

Using one of your examples, if I'm in 2nd at 5k RPM, hitting the throttle would be instant throttle response in M+Sport mode, or even D+sport. D without sport will attempt to make the transition smooth.

3rd at 3k, throttle response is good if I ease on the gas, but sudden full throttle at that low RPM would cause a kickdown and the transmission will downshift to 2nd (even in manual mode) and accelerate. It does this immediately and the whole thing takes less than a half second to happen. I have a video of a 6th to 2nd kickdown acceleration on youtube.

jbasedow30 · 09-18-2010, 01:59 PM

I have a 6mt and have it in my car too. I would chalk it up to the electronic throttle as opposed to turbo lag. When I went down to SC for the UBE and drove the various BMW models with turbo engines, none of them had this problem except for their 135, which was even more pronounced than mine. So it's gotta be something to do with the electronic throttle that's unique to the 1 series software. It also appears to plague both MT and AT cars.

2009 (Sep 08 Build)
SW Update in Spring 2009 for Alarm Install - Didn't notice any difference from original.

GaryS · 09-18-2010, 02:43 PM

The BMW software upgrade in March seemed to give me better throttle response. Then my Dinan software upgrade made it a lot better, and my Dinan CAI made it better still. But it's still not great.

Dackelone · 09-18-2010, 03:03 PM

RPM90 - I read your post today and I went for a drive into the former East Germany. I kind of notice what your saying with the lag. I don't think mine did that before my seatbelt recall - but I can't be sure.

I know my car now starts the fuel pump when I unlock the car now. It did not do that before. Its makes that Fax/Laser printer sound as it primes the HPFP first thing in the morning.

WHAT I did notice now, is when I V-Max the top speed of my car... before it would rip to 154 and them cut the speed at 155... it would tickle the speed limiter. Now it feels like the last five or seven mph - it slows way down from before. Its kind of hard to describe. My car feels like the engine is controlling the speed limiter more now.

I also noticed my dealer did not secure the underhood wires that run over the engine. I had to pull it out and snap it into place proper like. Not sure why they would check my micro filter since my car is only seven months old. Maybe they looks at my ECU? I am stock anyway.

Dackel

PS: So.... is there ANY way we can tell what SW version we have on our own? Aside from having a dealer read our key and telling us?

pixelblue · 09-18-2010, 03:07 PM

2010 manual and no upgrade but I have noticed this especially when I track my car. it has begun to bother me. there is always a slight delay to full power coming out of slow corners. I think the electronic throttle has something to do with it but I have also heard the throttle is programmed not to open fully from the factory. maybe part of some safety considerations. this apparently is not unique to bmw either. however I have heard some of the cpu reflash programs like dinan or giac addresses this issue. I was thinking about getting the sprint booster to sharpen the response but I don't think this would be the cure. I think by simply reprogramming the throttle to open up 100% it should open up a whole world of untapped power. would like to hear if anyone can confirm this issue with throttle being programmed not to open up 100%.

MarkR171 · 09-18-2010, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dackelone

I know my car now starts the fuel pump when I unlock the car now. It did not do that before. Its makes that Fax/Laser printer sound as it primes the HPFP first thing in the morning.

Is that what the sound is? My 2011 has done this since new, always wondered what the sound was. It's pretty loud too.

BavarianMotorWorks · 09-18-2010, 03:27 PM

Hey RPM90 so I do feel this also in my car except for a small difference. When I am cruising and I punch the throttle there doesn't seem to be any hesitation in accelerating but it does take a second to get to "full power." It is a bit annoying at times because most of the time I am already cruising when I want to punch it and it seems like there is this "lag" before my car really pulls. I'm hoping that when I get my Procede V4 installed this will go away.

EDIT: I also do remember asking the dealer about this on my last visit and they just said it was normal which I somewhat expected.

GaryS · 09-18-2010, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pixelblue

there is always a slight delay to full power coming out of slow corners.

That is DSC.

Dackelone · 09-18-2010, 03:30 PM

Maybe we should try re-setting the adaptive settings - by inserting the ignition key, do not start it, and then hold the gas pedal for 20 secs or longer. Maybe then the engine will adapt to our aggresive driving styles.

MarkR171 · 09-18-2010, 03:31 PM

I thought that was AT only^?

instag8tr · 09-18-2010, 03:32 PM

Has anyone used the Sprint throttle module

Dackelone · 09-18-2010, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkR171

Is that what the sound is? My 2011 has done this since new, always wondered what the sound was. It's pretty loud too.

My car has always done that too. Mostly when I have been driving the engine fully warmed up. Normally I heard it when I wash my car down the street at the wash-strasse and then I spend the next half hour wiping my car down.

I would hear that fax machine sound.

NOW... after the seatbelt recall... I hear that same sound when I unlock teh car on a cold start. So... I think that sound is the HPFP priming the system.

I think the reason why it runs when the engine is fully warmed up but shut off it to prevent vaport lock in the fuel lines under the hood.

Dackel

pixelblue · 09-18-2010, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaryS

That is DSC.

hey gary,
I track my car with everything switched off so that's not the problem. this thing with the throttle being programmed not to open fully maybe the culprit. surprised no one has chimed in on this

GaryS · 09-18-2010, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pixelblue

hey gary,
I track my car with everything switched off so that's not the problem. this thing with the throttle being programmed not to open fully maybe the culprit. surprised no one has chimed in on this

Hmm I dunno, the e-diff doesn't turn off, but afaik that just brakes the inside wheel and does not affect throttle. I say we buy some LSDs and see if that fixes it.

Alext · 09-18-2010, 05:57 PM

Yeah I noticed this now and again with my Jul08 build 135i manual.

MZWIE · 09-21-2010, 03:22 PM

I realize you guys are talking MT. However, in my AT in DS the thing rockets when you stomp on the throttle. Now then. In D mode the thing is like a Buick.

This leads to believe that there is some mapping difference between the MT's and AT's.

bryce · 09-21-2010, 04:20 PM

i notice it too, especially if i rev the engine while in neutral. i think it's the dbw (drive by wire) settings. the only remedy that i know of is an electronic throttle signal booster, which isn't the safest thing, especially with a tune. i've just learned to live with it, since cable throttles are quickly becoming a thing of the past

Dackelone · 09-22-2010, 04:46 PM

Hi Guys,

Ok, today I was at my German dealer to pickup my euro headlight switch(w/rear brake fogs)... I asked them IF they could tell me what SW version I have. Sure enough it is found on our KEY FOB! Dam these kiys store alot of sneaky info!

They printed out me a copy and gave it to me. I have all the ECU konfigeration info printed out. ALL THREE PAGES WORTH!!!

My engine's SW version is: 255.255.255 MSD81

It is the latest SW acroding to my dealer. I think you guys should go to your dealer and ask them to print you out a copy. All they have to do is read your key. All the info is under the ISPA Dienste - Steuergeraete - Konfiguration tab. In Enlgish that would be ISAP Service - Control Unit - Configuration.

Novator · 09-23-2010, 03:09 AM

I have used the Sprint Booster for AT and the version I have has three settings (stock, Sport, and Race). When in heavy traffic I keep it in the stock setting, when in the rain I keep it in Sport, but the majority of the time I keep it in Race mode. I took it out for an oil change and I was so sad on the drive home, couldn't wait to re-install it. I must say though that the software update did help a bit with the throttle issue, but no where near as responsive without the Sprint Booster. Some may not like it, but the majority of those who say negative things about it don't have one or never used one. A buddy of mine just got one for his manual 135i and he loves it.

1speedbike · 09-23-2010, 08:12 AM

I drive my step in M mode 99-99.5% of the time and I've never noticed this lag. I do have a JB+ however. But I do remember getting a software upgrade a while ago that SEEMED like the car responded a bit slower, then I got another upgrade very recently and the problem SEEMED resolved, but I don't know if all of this has just been in my head because of all the stuff people say on here..

leftyone · 09-23-2010, 10:10 AM

Throttle response...what's that...more like an on/off switch... My '1 Cobra Mustang had immediate response.

I have become acustomed to the lag though .

09-18-2010, 12:00 AM	#1
RPM90 Major General 890 Rep 7,047 Posts Drives: 340i M-sport AT Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Chicago iTrader: (1)	Poor throttle response-power lag I need to know how many other 135i drives have this condition with their cars. I've posted about this in other threads, but I need to make a new thread strictly about this. I think this is more pertinent to manual drivers, and Step and DCT drivers in manual mode. Here's the description of what I'm talking about: In gear, let's say 3rd, at about 4k rpm, so I'm right in the meat of the band. In a steady cruise, meaning not accelerating or decelerating, punch the throttle fully. My engine takes a second to respond, meaning no meaningful acceleration is happening. Then, the power comes on strong, and another split second and the power comes on fully. This lag is really bothering me, cause I don't recall having this condition until the software update I had in May. I can repeat this condition every time in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, higher gears and the speed is too high to be at 4k rpm. Also, it's not just at 4k rpm. I'm using that number just for example. I could be in 2nd at 5k, or 3rd at 3k, it does this all the time. From a stop I don't feel much lag, cause on a hard launch I rev to around 4k, modulate the clutch quickly and I'm off. But, in a roll on there is distinct lag and big lack of throttle response. This bothers me even more so cause today I drove a 328xi Step loaner while my 135i was in the shop. I put the 3 in manual mode and repeat the steps I describe above and the 3 simply responds, like, RIGHT NOW, instant throttle response, and much much better throttle/power modulation. Staying in gear at high rpm, all I had to do was give a bit more throttle and the engine responds. Let of a bit and give bigger input, and it just responds, no hesitation. My 135i doesn't /can't do this. I know it wasn't this bad before that software update. Sure, there is always a bit of lag in any turbo, even in our 135i, but it's very slight and nearly imperceptible. But, not now. It's really bugging me and starting to piss me off after driving the 328i. I know that NA engines, especially one as good as a BMW, have excellent throttle response, but the difference here is night and day. Can some of you post what your experience is when you do what I described above? I need to know if it's just my car, or if it happens to only the cars with the latest software update since around May? I described this to the BMW tech that rode with me, and I demonstrated it for him. He felt it and knew what I was saying. But, he also said that they might not be able to do anything about it. He didn't say why though. Is it because the software sucks and they have nothing to put in it's place? Or, is it just the way the engine works, so live with it? I can't accept the latter because I don't recall my 135i under performing like this before that update. I've been on threads commenting on how good, for a turbo, our throttle response is. But now, I can't say that. It downright sucks. Could this be related to excessive carbon build up? The tech found no codes, but I didn't expect he would. If this software is designed to lessen the load on the HPFP, then maybe the software is doing what it's been programmed to do, so it won't trigger a code. Still, I feel it, and I can demonstrate it repeatedly. So, please post what you guys experience, or if you have this already. One forum member has already verified that his 135i does this too since his software update. Post the year, trans, and if you've had a software update where you didn't feel the engine was the same, and when you last received a software update. If you have the software version that would be great too.
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09-18-2010, 01:04 AM	#2
MarkR171 Lieutenant Colonel 102 Rep 1,552 Posts Drives: '19 M2C \| '20 100AE ND2 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Phx, AZ iTrader: (0) Garage List 2019 BMW M2C [0.00]	Only happens to me if I punch the throttle fully from a stop. Otherwise, if I'm in gear, there's no (noticeable) delay. Using one of your examples, if I'm in 2nd at 5k RPM, hitting the throttle would be instant throttle response in M+Sport mode, or even D+sport. D without sport will attempt to make the transition smooth. 3rd at 3k, throttle response is good if I ease on the gas, but sudden full throttle at that low RPM would cause a kickdown and the transmission will downshift to 2nd (even in manual mode) and accelerate. It does this immediately and the whole thing takes less than a half second to happen. I have a video of a 6th to 2nd kickdown acceleration on youtube. __________________ 2019 M2C - Alpine White - 6MT 2023 Supra 6MT - Deposit and Wait Last edited by MarkR171; 09-18-2010 at 01:12 AM..
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09-18-2010, 01:59 PM	#3
jbasedow30 Enlisted Member 1 Rep 32 Posts Drives: Jet Black '09 135i Coupe Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DC iTrader: (0)	I have a 6mt and have it in my car too. I would chalk it up to the electronic throttle as opposed to turbo lag. When I went down to SC for the UBE and drove the various BMW models with turbo engines, none of them had this problem except for their 135, which was even more pronounced than mine. So it's gotta be something to do with the electronic throttle that's unique to the 1 series software. It also appears to plague both MT and AT cars. 2009 (Sep 08 Build) SW Update in Spring 2009 for Alarm Install - Didn't notice any difference from original.
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09-18-2010, 02:43 PM	#4
GaryS Colonel 37 Rep 2,084 Posts Drives: 2009 135i 6MT Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Maryland iTrader: (0) Garage List 2009 135i [6.50]	The BMW software upgrade in March seemed to give me better throttle response. Then my Dinan software upgrade made it a lot better, and my Dinan CAI made it better still. But it's still not great.
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09-18-2010, 03:03 PM	#5
Dackelone European Editor 10589 Rep 22,992 Posts Drives: N54 e82 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Bayern, Germany iTrader: (1)	RPM90 - I read your post today and I went for a drive into the former East Germany. I kind of notice what your saying with the lag. I don't think mine did that before my seatbelt recall - but I can't be sure. I know my car now starts the fuel pump when I unlock the car now. It did not do that before. Its makes that Fax/Laser printer sound as it primes the HPFP first thing in the morning. WHAT I did notice now, is when I V-Max the top speed of my car... before it would rip to 154 and them cut the speed at 155... it would tickle the speed limiter. Now it feels like the last five or seven mph - it slows way down from before. Its kind of hard to describe. My car feels like the engine is controlling the speed limiter more now. I also noticed my dealer did not secure the underhood wires that run over the engine. I had to pull it out and snap it into place proper like. Not sure why they would check my micro filter since my car is only seven months old. Maybe they looks at my ECU? I am stock anyway. Dackel PS: So.... is there ANY way we can tell what SW version we have on our own? Aside from having a dealer read our key and telling us?
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09-18-2010, 03:07 PM	#6
pixelblue Colonel 140 Rep 2,234 Posts Drives: the silver bullet Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: northern virginia iTrader: (2) Garage List 2010 135i [8.90]	2010 manual and no upgrade but I have noticed this especially when I track my car. it has begun to bother me. there is always a slight delay to full power coming out of slow corners. I think the electronic throttle has something to do with it but I have also heard the throttle is programmed not to open fully from the factory. maybe part of some safety considerations. this apparently is not unique to bmw either. however I have heard some of the cpu reflash programs like dinan or giac addresses this issue. I was thinking about getting the sprint booster to sharpen the response but I don't think this would be the cure. I think by simply reprogramming the throttle to open up 100% it should open up a whole world of untapped power. would like to hear if anyone can confirm this issue with throttle being programmed not to open up 100%. __________________ "I would quote everything pixelblue said, but you've already read it. Take it from someone who's put the 1 through its paces"
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09-18-2010, 03:27 PM	#8
BavarianMotorWorks Captain 70 Rep 625 Posts Drives: 2011 e90 335i xDrive Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: NJ iTrader: (11)	Hey RPM90 so I do feel this also in my car except for a small difference. When I am cruising and I punch the throttle there doesn't seem to be any hesitation in accelerating but it does take a second to get to "full power." It is a bit annoying at times because most of the time I am already cruising when I want to punch it and it seems like there is this "lag" before my car really pulls. I'm hoping that when I get my Procede V4 installed this will go away. EDIT: I also do remember asking the dealer about this on my last visit and they just said it was normal which I somewhat expected.
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09-18-2010, 03:30 PM	#10
Dackelone European Editor 10589 Rep 22,992 Posts Drives: N54 e82 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Bayern, Germany iTrader: (1)	Maybe we should try re-setting the adaptive settings - by inserting the ignition key, do not start it, and then hold the gas pedal for 20 secs or longer. Maybe then the engine will adapt to our aggresive driving styles.
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09-18-2010, 03:31 PM	#11
MarkR171 Lieutenant Colonel 102 Rep 1,552 Posts Drives: '19 M2C \| '20 100AE ND2 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Phx, AZ iTrader: (0) Garage List 2019 BMW M2C [0.00]	I thought that was AT only^? __________________ 2019 M2C - Alpine White - 6MT 2023 Supra 6MT - Deposit and Wait
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09-18-2010, 03:32 PM	#12
instag8tr Second Lieutenant 10 Rep 272 Posts Drives: 08 sphr blk 135i Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Omaha,ne iTrader: (6)	Has anyone used the Sprint throttle module
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09-18-2010, 05:57 PM	#16
Alext Banned 138 Rep 2,042 Posts Drives: B M W Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Everest iTrader: (2)	Yeah I noticed this now and again with my Jul08 build 135i manual.
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09-21-2010, 03:22 PM	#17
MZWIE Lieutenant Colonel 388 Rep 1,660 Posts Drives: M2 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: GEORGIA iTrader: (0)	I realize you guys are talking MT. However, in my AT in DS the thing rockets when you stomp on the throttle. Now then. In D mode the thing is like a Buick. This leads to believe that there is some mapping difference between the MT's and AT's.
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09-21-2010, 04:20 PM	#18
bryce Banned 103 Rep 3,177 Posts Drives: zhp 3-pedal Join Date: May 2010 Location: texas iTrader: (22) Garage List 2005 bmw 330ci zhp [7.34] 2008 bmw 135i- sold [6.00] 2007 bmw 335i- sold [7.14]	i notice it too, especially if i rev the engine while in neutral. i think it's the dbw (drive by wire) settings. the only remedy that i know of is an electronic throttle signal booster, which isn't the safest thing, especially with a tune. i've just learned to live with it, since cable throttles are quickly becoming a thing of the past
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09-22-2010, 04:46 PM	#19
Dackelone European Editor 10589 Rep 22,992 Posts Drives: N54 e82 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Bayern, Germany iTrader: (1)	Hi Guys, Ok, today I was at my German dealer to pickup my euro headlight switch(w/rear brake fogs)... I asked them IF they could tell me what SW version I have. Sure enough it is found on our KEY FOB! Dam these kiys store alot of sneaky info! They printed out me a copy and gave it to me. I have all the ECU konfigeration info printed out. ALL THREE PAGES WORTH!!! My engine's SW version is: 255.255.255 MSD81 It is the latest SW acroding to my dealer. I think you guys should go to your dealer and ask them to print you out a copy. All they have to do is read your key. All the info is under the ISPA Dienste - Steuergeraete - Konfiguration tab. In Enlgish that would be ISAP Service - Control Unit - Configuration.
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09-23-2010, 03:09 AM	#20
Novator Captain 48 Rep 711 Posts Drives: '04 E46 M3 Join Date: May 2008 Location: Beaufort, SC iTrader: (2) Garage List 2004 BMW M3 [8.00]	I have used the Sprint Booster for AT and the version I have has three settings (stock, Sport, and Race). When in heavy traffic I keep it in the stock setting, when in the rain I keep it in Sport, but the majority of the time I keep it in Race mode. I took it out for an oil change and I was so sad on the drive home, couldn't wait to re-install it. I must say though that the software update did help a bit with the throttle issue, but no where near as responsive without the Sprint Booster. Some may not like it, but the majority of those who say negative things about it don't have one or never used one. A buddy of mine just got one for his manual 135i and he loves it. __________________
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09-23-2010, 08:12 AM	#21
1speedbike Brigadier General 734 Rep 3,274 Posts Drives: 2022 X4 M40i, 2008 135i Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: MKE iTrader: (15)	I drive my step in M mode 99-99.5% of the time and I've never noticed this lag. I do have a JB+ however. But I do remember getting a software upgrade a while ago that SEEMED like the car responded a bit slower, then I got another upgrade very recently and the problem SEEMED resolved, but I don't know if all of this has just been in my head because of all the stuff people say on here.. __________________ 2022 X4 M40i - 2008 135i - 2015 F700GS On Order - 2024 i4 M50 Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived... Mmhm.
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09-23-2010, 10:10 AM	#22
leftyone Private First Class 3 Rep 106 Posts Drives: '09 135 convertible Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Cliffside Park NJ iTrader: (0)	Throttle response...what's that...more like an on/off switch... My '1 Cobra Mustang had immediate response. I have become acustomed to the lag though .
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