Traction control

[oman135]

hi guys
while accelerating in the 135i the traction icon flashes because of the tire spinning i heard that its not good for the car to keep the traction control on l while accelerating and some times i accelerate in corners and the cars goes little sideways and the traction is still on this is fine or i have to disable the traction ?

[Evice]

I think you are using Google Translate or something...

as far as I understand;

No it is not BAD for your car, all you are going to do is run out of your rear brakes sooner than normal use.

[akak1997]

Originally Posted by Evice

I think you are using Google Translate or something...

as far as I understand;

No it is not BAD for your car, all you are going to do is run out of your rear brakes sooner than normal use.

Yep, it's OK for traction control to kick in, that's why it is there. You can disable traction control altogether, but brake pads are covered under warranty, tires aren't

But of course, you got a 300hp RWD car, I'm sure some part of you want to spin some tires.

[oman135]

yap i always close the traction while going sideways!

thanks anyways

[oman135]

and am not using googel translate

[GaryS]

You don't need to disable the traction unless you want to go a little more sideways.

[miiipilot]

Mine is always off. I don't need a nanny

[Ash83]

[ORIGIN M.]

I always run it half off, AND the other half, has saved me more than once...

[JimD]

When you see it flashing, it means you might want to back off a little. You would have just spun out or spun your tires a bunch. A tiny bit more brake wear seems preferable.

I drove a lot of cars without this feature including in autocross but I happily leave it on. I might try the in-between mode sometime, however. If I was really good, and I am not, it might slow me down. I think all it does at this point is keep me out of any big trouble. My times will improve when I get my braking points down, figure out what gear to be in for each turn etc.. The electronic nanny is not slowing me significantly. Anything more than a tiny bit of tire noise is just slowing you down too (i.e. drifting is for show, not speed).

It will be interesting to see how we run at M school later this month. I know we do some skid pad exercises with it off but I am guessing we do the road work with it on.

Jim

[oman135]

when my traction is on i still can go sideways is it okay ? or its better if i disable the traction control? sometimes i dont want to go sideways a lot so i dont turn my traction control

[Evice]

Okay may be you should use Google Translate....

[GaryS]

Originally Posted by oman135

when my traction is on i still can go sideways is it okay ? or its better if i disable the traction control? sometimes i dont want to go sideways a lot so i dont turn my traction control

If you want to go sideways, disable the traction. If you don't want to go sideways, leave the traction on.

If the traction is on, and you are going sideways anyway, you are driving too fast.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by GaryS

If you want to go sideways, disable the traction. If you don't want to go sideways, leave the traction on.

If the traction is on, and you are going sideways anyway, you are driving too fast.

Actually, there are 2 main things going on with the system, DTC and DSC, traction control and stability control.

If you want to go sideways, you have to turn DSC off. When you turn DSC off then DTC will also turn off. Because, to turn DSC off you have to push the button and HOLD it. First, traction limit intervention is reduced, allowing wheel spin. BMW calls this "DTC-dynamic traction control"- on, even though there is actually LESS system intervention. Hold the button longer and then DSC-dyncamic stability control- turns off.

It is the DSC that keeps your car from going sideways, not the DTC.

DTC, controls tire spin. If you want to do burn outs, then press the button only once and let go. Traction control is greatly reduced. It is also useful in situations where you want tire spin to get you out of snow, mud, or sand.
If DSC default is on, then you wouldn't be able to spin your tires to get out of those things.
When wheel spin is detected, the systems traction control, controls the throttle to stop the spin, and may use the brakes as well.
That's why if you've ever accelerated too fast with the system on, you feel like you've lost throttle control for a split second, because in fact, you have.

With traction control on (DSC default mode), you'll get the slowest acceleration, because as soon as there is wheel spin, and there usually is some with hard accel, the system will cut your throttle, and you lose time as it takes control and then gives it back.
For fastest accel you want a bit of wheel spin, but you don't want to stop the throttle or engine from accelerating.

DSC helps keep your car from going sideways or spinning completely around, if you make a mistake. The stability program has sensors that detect when one end of the car has gone beyond a safe limit.
When that limit is exceeded, DSC takes control of the brakes and throttle in order to bring the car back into line. It can actually control any of the 4 brakes as needed.

Some people turn traction control off/DTC on, so that they can have the added wheel spin before the ECU starts to mess with your throttle.
But, the DSC is still on if you go beyond your and the cars limits.

[GaryS]

DSC is the default. One short click makes it DTC. A three second click makes it DSC Off which includes DTC Off.

DSC does not accelerate from a stop faster than DTC. DSC limits everything DTC does plus more.

DTC is useful for getting started from a rut in snow. Apart from that, I personally use them as DSC = dynamic street control and DTC = dynamic track control.

[oman135]

Originally Posted by Evice

Okay may be you should use Google Translate....

whats wrong with you ?
and its a 135i thread so STAY AWAY if u dont like it !

[Evice]

Originally Posted by oman135

whats wrong with you ?
and its a 135i thread so STAY AWAY if u dont like it !

I simply can not UNDERSTAND what you meant. Take a chill pill plz.

"when my traction is on i still can go sideways is it okay ?"
== WTH is this supposed to mean? Whatever you do it is okay.
"sometimes i dont want to go sideways a lot so i dont turn my traction control"
== You don't turn traction control... WTH again.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by GaryS

DSC is the default. One short click makes it DTC. A three second click makes it DSC Off which includes DTC Off.

DSC does not accelerate from a stop faster than DTC. DSC limits everything DTC does plus more.

DTC is useful for getting started from a rut in snow. Apart from that, I personally use them as DSC = dynamic street control and DTC = dynamic track control.

If you want to go sideways, then you to have the system FULLY turned off, so that DSC is off as well as DTC.

It's more useful to know what happens when you push the DTC button, as BMW uses odd terminology.

For example:
One click turns "traction control" off, meaning, it will allow the wheels to spin, for example, during a hard launch. For whatever reason, BMW calls this mode "DTC ON", even though in default mode traction control is applied as soon as there is any wheel spin.

So, one push allows the driver to apply power to the wheels, even though they may be spinning.
This is why, if you want to get out of deep snow, then press the DTC button once.

In this mode, DSC can still step in if the driver let's the car get to the systems "too much" point. If this happens, the system steps in.
Holding the button longer turns DSC off as well all other "nannies".

Fastest accel is achieved with traction control off but DTC on, meaning the "dynamic traction control" will not stop wheel spin on hard accel.
The terminology used by BMW is odd.

I'll correct my post to better reflect BMW's terminology.

[gnat]

Originally Posted by Evice

I simply can not UNDERSTAND what you meant. Take a chill pill plz.

"when my traction is on i still can go sideways is it okay ?"
== WTH is this supposed to mean? Whatever you do it is okay.
"sometimes i dont want to go sideways a lot so i dont turn my traction control"
== You don't turn traction control... WTH again.

I know, it's shocking and horrible that English might not be his primary language being from a non-English speaking country and all. God what is the world coming to!



No his posts aren't perfect English, but they are obviously coherent enough to get his point across so people can answer his questions. If you don't feel you can understand him enough to help, then as you suggest to him "take a chill pill" and go find another thread.

To the OP, yes with everything enabled you can still make the car go sideways. I've recently figured out how to get my wife's 996 to slide without turning things off and it is AWD. I do recognize that I'm being an idiot when I do this though

So if you don't want to go sideways, slow down some.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by gnat

I know, it's shocking and horrible that English might not be his primary language being from a non-English speaking country and all. God what is the world coming to!



No his posts aren't perfect English, but they are obviously coherent enough to get his point across so people can answer his questions. If you don't feel you can understand him enough to help, then as you suggest to him "take a chill pill" and go find another thread.

To the OP, yes with everything enabled you can still make the car go sideways. I've recently figured out how to get my wife's 996 to slide without turning things off and it is AWD. I do recognize that I'm being an idiot when I do this though

So if you don't want to go sideways, slow down some.

Being an immigrant myself, with lots of family that don't speak perfect English or American, I agree with your sentiment on the issue.

On to the topic.
Driven spiritedly and "sanely", I've never had the car go sideways with DSC in default "On" mode. My 135i has tried to step out in the rear, but the system always catches it and corrects it. The only way I can see someone "driving" it sideways, like say drifting, the system needs to be turned off completely.

Or, are you describing a situation where someone has wrongly man handled the car to the point where it went sideways before the system could catch it? I've never tried to actually see what would happen if I were going 90mph into a tight right hand, and waited until the last second then crank the steering wheel hard to the right with full throttle. I don't know if the DSC system would react quickly enough to stop the inevitable in that scenario.

I do know that in snow conditions, if you over drive the car for conditions you can spin it, but you'd have to make a really "dumb" move for that to happen.

My explanation of turning everything off to go sideways comes from wanting to perhaps drift the car, meaning, going driving it sideways in a controlled manner. With everything "On", the system won't let you do that. If you have, how did you do it? And, I would think something is wrong with your system.

[gnat]

Originally Posted by RPM90

With everything "On", the system won't let you do that. If you have, how did you do it? And, I would think something is wrong with your system.

As was said already, the electronics can't beat the laws of physics. If you are going fast enough and turn sharp enough, it will slide. What the speed/turn ratio is, of course, depends entirely on the car and it's systems. And I wouldn't call it a "controlled" drift as the system will catchup with you and straighten the car back out.

At ~40-50mph into a ~75-80 degree turn the 996 only slides about 10 feet before the system catches back up with me.

I have noticed that the DTC in her e90 seems to be better than the PSM of the 996 (both are AWD), but I don't know if that has more to do with the systems or with the power/weight ratio differences between the cars. Even in the wet at the Auto-X class I couldn't get the e90 to break loose (neither could the instructor). Like PSM in the Porsche, however, DTC can never be fully disabled in the Xi cars.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by gnat

As was said already, the electronics can't beat the laws of physics. If you are going fast enough and turn sharp enough, it will slide. What the speed/turn ratio is, of course, depends entirely on the car and it's systems. And I wouldn't call it a "controlled" drift as the system will catchup with you and straighten the car back out.

At ~40-50mph into a ~75-80 degree turn the 996 only slides about 10 feet before the system catches back up with me.

I have noticed that the DTC in her e90 seems to be better than the PSM of the 996 (both are AWD), but I don't know if that has more to do with the systems or with the power/weight ratio differences between the cars. Even in the wet at the Auto-X class I couldn't get the e90 to break loose (neither could the instructor). Like PSM in the Porsche, however, DTC can never be fully disabled in the Xi cars.

With AWD it's much harder to get the car to loosen it's grip. That's one of the great things about AWD, and it's also one of the things many RWD drivers hate about it. I happen to like a well done AWD, like the quattro or Subaru's.

I loved my A4 in the snow. When we'd get a good snow fall, with about 3" or more, I'd go out and turn off all the fun stoppers, and drift sideways going down the street. Lots of fun!
In my RWD 135i in the snow, it's much harder to control, it just gets away from you much sooner and easier.
Still, the only way to do it is to turn off the system completely so that you can ride it out. With the system on, it catches the rear pretty quickly.
Great for safety in daily driving, but no fun when the road is clear of traffic and you want to be childish.