Here we go again - Another Step vs. Manual Thread

[TMR013]

So I took the 1er out to Tortilla Flats this morning so I could really test out my new Hankook V12’s (see the tire section to read that review). I decided I wasn’t going to play with the paddles and just let the Step do its thing in DS mode. My opinion, and I know it won’t sway any die-hards, the right automatic is absolutely just as much fun as a manual.
A little history. The 1 is the first car I have ever owned with an auto. And I have been driving for over 20 years. I even special ordered my utility vehicle, an Isuzu Trooper, with a 5M many years ago. And my last car was an S2000, which has IMO the sweetest 6M on the road today. I was more than a little apprehensive when I got the 1, but I simply did not want to wait to special order the car. And I’ll be honest, I couldn’t be happier with this choice.
I really paid attention on the drive today so I could record my observations. First, as many have noted, the Step is lightning fast, there was only 1 instance where I may have gone with a different gear. And the fact that you can keep both hands on the wheel the whole time really boosts confidence. I am sure I was faster overall on the course than in the S2000. And it’s interesting; you can really notice how you manage the brake and accelerator response if you don’t have the clutch to worry about. So the idea that the auto takes the mental part of it out is bull. Is it perfect? No. I’m sure if I had a manual I would have kept the revs higher in some spots to take advantage of the power range. And yes, it takes some of the challenge out of it. But I bought this car to run the crap out of it on roads like this one, not to prove that I can drive perfectly. And the bottom line; the shit eatin’ grin on my face the whole trip was just as big as when I did the same road in the S2000.
So for all you 3 peddlers who like to give us Step guys crap for not being "real drivers". You really need to open your mind up to the possibilities technology gives us. And if you still want to call me names, that’s fine. You will see me laughing in my rear view mirror as I pull away from you.

[Ox]

Wow Step .... now your Mom can drive it too.

[ErvGotti]

I say to each his own. If your a manual guy that went to a step or DCT great for you. If you've driven a auto your whole life and then claim it's better than stick and cant drive a stick then just go away.

I just test drove a 135 DCT recently and was impressed, but I dont know I love my 6M. Though there are times I wish I had an auto like in heavy bumper to bumper 5mph stop n go traffic.

[roo97ss]

Originally Posted by TMR013

So I took the 1er out to Tortilla Flats this morning so I could really test out my new Hankook V12’s (see the tire section to read that review). I decided I wasn’t going to play with the paddles and just let the Step do its thing in DS mode. My opinion, and I know it won’t sway any die-hards, the right automatic is absolutely just as much fun as a manual.
A little history. The 1 is the first car I have ever owned with an auto. And I have been driving for over 20 years. I even special ordered my utility vehicle, an Isuzu Trooper, with a 5M many years ago. And my last car was an S2000, which has IMO the sweetest 6M on the road today. I was more than a little apprehensive when I got the 1, but I simply did not want to wait to special order the car. And I’ll be honest, I couldn’t be happier with this choice.
I really paid attention on the drive today so I could record my observations. First, as many have noted, the Step is lightning fast, there was only 1 instance where I may have gone with a different gear. And the fact that you can keep both hands on the wheel the whole time really boosts confidence. I am sure I was faster overall on the course than in the S2000. And it’s interesting; you can really notice how you manage the brake and accelerator response if you don’t have the clutch to worry about. So the idea that the auto takes the mental part of it out is bull. Is it perfect? No. I’m sure if I had a manual I would have kept the revs higher in some spots to take advantage of the power range. And yes, it takes some of the challenge out of it. But I bought this car to run the crap out of it on roads like this one, not to prove that I can drive perfectly. And the bottom line; the shit eatin’ grin on my face the whole trip was just as big as when I did the same road in the S2000.
So for all you 3 peddlers who like to give us Step guys crap for not being "real drivers". You really need to open your mind up to the possibilities technology gives us. And if you still want to call me names, that’s fine. You will see me laughing in my rear view mirror as I pull away from you.

I'm with you on this. There are times I miss the manual, esp from an involvement standpoint. However, daily the step is great and probably as quick.

it's the torque, it bails out the trans. Case in point would be to take the 128 and try the same thing, I doubt outcome would be the same.

I'm now about 6 weeks without the manual and already am contemplating another roadster, z4 or boxster s maybe even vette again just to have a stick to play with.

[1SerieStud]

If you think you have quite the grin on your face when you step out of your automatic car, imagine the grin on mine when I step out of my 6-speed manual machine!

[bryce]

Originally Posted by TMR013

You will see me laughing in my rear view mirror as I pull away from you.

i assume your running catless downpipes, dci's, upgraded intercooler, tune, and meth to make such a bold claim (that's what i'm running, at least). btw, it's good you're happy with the automatic. i could never be happy with one however, to each their own

[NewYearsBoy]

I love my Step... Thats why I got the car..

[TMR013]

Originally Posted by bryce

i assume your running catless downpipes, dci's, upgraded intercooler, tune, and meth to make such a bold claim (that's what i'm running, at least). btw, it's good you're happy with the automatic. i could never be happy with one however, to each their own

Honestly on this road, it wouldn't have helped. Nothing but hairpins, chicanes and up and down elevation. But yours does sound fun otherwise.

[1SerieStud]

Originally Posted by TMR013

Honestly on this road, it wouldn't have helped. Nothing but hairpins, chicanes and up and down elevation. But yours does sound fun otherwise.

You're in for a treat...you talk so much crap you can't even contain yourself within the group that drives the same car as you do. People like you give BMW drivers a bad reputation....kinda sad. But hey, best luck to you and your better-than-everybody-elses' 1er

[MarkR171]

Originally Posted by 1SerieStud

You're in for a treat...you talk so much crap you can't even contain yourself within the group that drives the same car as you do. People like you give BMW drivers a bad reputation....kinda sad. But hey, best luck to you and your better-than-everybody-elses' 1er

Looks to me that you're the only one in this thread guilty of this.

He didn't put anyone down, he simply stated he enjoys his automatic. You're the one that seems to have a problem with that.

[1SerieStud]

Originally Posted by MarkR171

Looks to me that you're the only one in this thread guilty of this.

He didn't put anyone down, he simply stated he enjoys his automatic. You're the one that seems to have a problem with that.

LOL I have no problem with anyone/anything...did you read his original post? Anyhow, I don't care and don't have time for this! I'm out!

[MarkR171]

Originally Posted by 1SerieStud

LOL I have no problem with anyone/anything...did you read his original post? Anyhow, I don't care and don't have time for this! I'm out!

Yes, I did. Did you?

[1SerieStud]

Originally Posted by MarkR171

Yes, I did. Did you?

I certainly did. His implications of his car being any better/faster, blah blah blah....he did not step in to express his love for the car...I couldn't care less man...honestly, this is requiring much more attention than I care to put on the subject of an automatic car.

All right, genuinely my last comment on the subject as I have better things to read/do.

[bluefly]

With all due respect to the OP, this just seems like the 1-series version of the infamous "autobox in a sporting car" rationalization that I've heard from an increasingly vocal group on MINI, veedub, even Miata forums.

STEP, and DCT too, is a haptic and mental decrease in mechanical connection with the machine, simple as that. If that doesn't bug you (and it sounds like it doesn't bug the OP, though I would say "he doth protest too much"), enjoy!

Speaking for myself, I have yet to drive an autobox that I could give more than faint praise to (e.g., "Not bad for an automatic transmission"). And to the OP, I'm happy to hear you are enjoying driving on good twisty back roads... but I dare say that if you were to jump from your 135i to an identically specced one with a manual shift, you would enjoy the manual shift more - yes, on that very same road you raved about. You wouldn't even care if you were keeping up with the autobox car or not (and trust me, you would be). It is even worse in city traffic, the supposed "key advantage" of slushboxes / DCT... they are absolute snorefests in these conditions... may as well get on public transit at that point...

Anyway, further discussion is largely fruitless... STEP/DCT drivers and 6MT drivers are practically alien cultures from each other's perspective.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by bluefly

Speaking for myself, I have yet to drive an autobox that I could give more than faint praise to (e.g., "Not bad for an automatic transmission").

I agree completely. I had both a step and 6mt at the same time and the 6mt was just a lot more enjoyable to drive on any road. Steptronic never felt like a good replacement. It's a lot better than being fully automatic though. I sold my 135i like 3 weeks ago and really miss driving a manual. I'm stuck driving my step E90 until my next car arrives. Lets just say I don't go for drives at night for the sake of driving anymore.

DCT on the other hand feels great. It's actually quite surprising how fast it shifts. I think I could learn to like DCT, but I still prefer driving a manual and will keep buying them until I'm forced to move on.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by TMR013

So I took the 1er out to Tortilla Flats this morning so I could really test out my new Hankook V12’s (see the tire section to read that review). I decided I wasn’t going to play with the paddles and just let the Step do its thing in DS mode. My opinion, and I know it won’t sway any die-hards, the right automatic is absolutely just as much fun as a manual.
A little history. The 1 is the first car I have ever owned with an auto. And I have been driving for over 20 years. I even special ordered my utility vehicle, an Isuzu Trooper, with a 5M many years ago. And my last car was an S2000, which has IMO the sweetest 6M on the road today. I was more than a little apprehensive when I got the 1, but I simply did not want to wait to special order the car. And I’ll be honest, I couldn’t be happier with this choice.
I really paid attention on the drive today so I could record my observations. First, as many have noted, the Step is lightning fast, there was only 1 instance where I may have gone with a different gear. And the fact that you can keep both hands on the wheel the whole time really boosts confidence. I am sure I was faster overall on the course than in the S2000. And it’s interesting; you can really notice how you manage the brake and accelerator response if you don’t have the clutch to worry about. So the idea that the auto takes the mental part of it out is bull. Is it perfect? No. I’m sure if I had a manual I would have kept the revs higher in some spots to take advantage of the power range. And yes, it takes some of the challenge out of it. But I bought this car to run the crap out of it on roads like this one, not to prove that I can drive perfectly. And the bottom line; the shit eatin’ grin on my face the whole trip was just as big as when I did the same road in the S2000.
So for all you 3 peddlers who like to give us Step guys crap for not being "real drivers". You really need to open your mind up to the possibilities technology gives us. And if you still want to call me names, that’s fine. You will see me laughing in my rear view mirror as I pull away from you.

Really? You think by sheer virtue of a DCT you'll pull away from any manual trans 135i?
But, even if you did, so what?

There are many of us manual drivers who don't choose a manual trans because we 'think' we're faster than the other guy, just because of our trans choice. We chose our trans simply because we enjoy operating it.
Liking a manual trans is more than just being in gear as fast as possible.
It's the process that many of us enjoy.

I love to cook. There are plenty of gadgets that can cut, chop, shred, and do things quicker than a nicely made chef's knife. But, I still prefer my chef's knife over those gadgets. Why? Because, I truly just enjoy using it.
It's that simple. I enjoy the tactile sensations it offers, and that's enough for me to like it.

I know this post wasn't intended towards me, as I am a manual driver who respects peoples choices. And, I don't judge a persons' driving ability based on whether or not they use their left foot to push a pedal in an out.

However, this post reads like a thinly veiled attempt to attribute some sort of legitimacy, and even supremacy, to having an automatic.
It may not have been intended that way, but it's coming across that way to some of us.

You could have simply described your drive and how you enjoyed the new DCT, and gave us a review of how it performs. But, you had to add those little things that stir up a well known disagreement.
That's just as bad as the manual guys who make silly/stupid comments about auto trans drivers.

The trans tech people chose may be different, but it seems the people driving them aren't so different from each other.

[Shawnski]

It would have to be manual. However, since I am not restricted to one vehicle I ordered my 135 to compete mainly as a daily driver - I went Step.

Compared to the complete control of a manual its an apple to an orange, respective strenghts are judged by what mood your in. The auto will never drop its guard and works as designed always. Its up to you to make the manual work its magic. Even the best slushboxes lacks that last degree of control a manual gives, important in autox for example.

Compare a Step to other torque converter slush boxes and it is superior from my experience. Others are usually very lazy and just want to get to high gear and stay there. The Step is always willing to work with the driver, its so good and intuitive, when its go time its there.

We also have an MB GLK with a 7-speed slushbox, and the 135 ZF unit is sooooo much better in terms of response. Even compared to the GM unit we had in an X3 that we replaced with the GLK (mistake!), BMW knows how to program automatics for enthusiastic driving.

If the ZF Step was weak sauce in terms of response, appoligies would be forth coming i.e bought it for traffic etc. However, this is a hgh performance trans that forces less all out compromise than others I have driven. However, a manual is still going to be faster in a road circut.

[roo97ss]

Originally Posted by TMR013

So for all you 3 peddlers who like to give us Step guys crap for not being "real drivers". You really need to open your mind up to the possibilities technology gives us. And if you still want to call me names, that’s fine. You will see me laughing in my rear view mirror as I pull away from you.

I guess this is the line, i don't like it, nor anyone.

However, the 6mt guys are very defensive here.

I think the point to make is the 6mt is more involving, not that it makes the car better or faster (on tight tracks in a skilled drivers hands it probably makes a modest difference).

However, seeing tailights is way more a function of #1 driver skill, #2 suspension setup/tires, and #3 when dealing with a big power turbo motor transmission choice. An average driver in a manual will get beaten down by an excellent driver in a step....however; the manual driver will probably have more fun doing it.

The step is a viable alternative, esp when you've got enough power that the right gear can almost be 2 gears.

[ptack]

At some point manuals will become quaint relics. What will be interesting is who will insist on them (and who will offer them) when the performance difference becomes more significant? How many will buy a high performance car, but will admittedly less performance so they can drive like the days of yore?

[TMR013]

LOL!
Honestly everybody, I never meant to dis manual, I love it as a driver. All I said was that IMO Step is just as much fun as manual. As far as my last comment, just trying to kick up some dust.
But I do have to say that the guys accusing me of acting superior are pretty funny. I think the manual guys have had WAY more negative things to say about Step. Take the first comment I got from Ox as an example.

[GotM]

TMR,
How many gears did you car actually use at TF? I am guessing on that road you would only be going back and forth between 2 gears or so. I could see where having the step or DCT would be nice out there.
I havent had my 1er over there yet...waiting for it to cool down a little more. I have done the roads hundreds of times on sportbikes...just did it last weekend on a 10 Harely Heritage ST...not near as much fun as the sport bikes or the M Roadster.
I will have to take the 1er at it and see how perform with the 6MT. Not a good road to really push things on though...not much room for any mistakes.