Why arent UK diesel models in USA?

[aaron529]

Hi im really curious to know why aren't diesel BMWs, like the 316d ES in the states? After checking the UK bmw site, i was in shock to see that some of these cars get 65 miles to the gallon.

http://www.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/pricesand...elTypeKey=ZJ27

[Tom K.]

Ever since BMW stopped importing the 4 cyl. 318i a decade ago, Americans have had the perception that a "slow" (i.e. 0~60 in 9 seconds or more) BMW wasn't worth paying the 50%+ price premium over a 4 cyl. Camry or Accord. The same holds true of small hatchbacks, so we only get the high end one series - the coupe & convertible 128i & 135i.

So why should BMW risk the expense of US certification for models which probably won't sell?

Tom

[aaron529]

This makes sense. But what about those people who want the extra gas milage and make a statement at the same time? Also i dont know of any US car getting 62.8 MPG

Originally Posted by Tom K.

Ever since BMW stopped importing the 4 cyl. 318i a decade ago, Americans have had the perception that a "slow" (i.e. 0~60 in 9 seconds or more) BMW wasn't worth paying the 50%+ price premium over a 4 cyl. Camry or Accord. The same holds true of small hatchbacks, so we only get the high end one series - the coupe & convertible 128i & 135i.

So why should BMW risk the expense of US certification for models which probably won't sell?

Tom

[aaron529]

My father would be a perfect example. He drives 30k miles a year. He wanted to buy a an E class benz but i adviced him not to. At 30k a year, after 4 years the car would be worth nothing. Plus the extra expenses in gas. I guess he made the smart decision in buying a Honda Fit. Now hes looking at the ML hybrid but even that only gets 20/24 mpg...

[Tom K.]

Originally Posted by aaron529

This makes sense. But what about those people who want the extra gas milage and make a statement at the same time? Also i dont know of any US car getting 62.8 MPG

True, but I neglected to mention that I probably pay less in total for fueling my 128i & 328i than our UK diesel driving counterparts due to the extreme difference in gasoline taxes.

If we gradually increased the federal gas tax from 18.4 cents to $2.00, I bet we would see folks clamoring for more fuel efficient cars. And we might be able to do something about our deplorable roads & bridges.

Tom

[gnat]

I think price points might have something to do with it as well.
At least with the 3 series (1s too, but not as big of a gap when I looked) there is a significant difference in what equally appointed cars MSRP for between the US and the EU countries (we get them much cheaper).

So if they brought the smaller engines over you are now looking at a 20k 1 or 25k 3 as a base price. While we might like that, BMW won't because they might not be able to make money on them at that level and $30k is the magic "luxury" barrier for the average person (e.g. they won't think of it as a luxury car if it is less than that).

The (non-turbo) diesel engines could probably be a bit different and I hope the X5d and 335d are the precursors to them coming over too.

What really gets me is that I can't get a 335xdt here in the states even though the engine is certified (335d and X5d), the chassis is approved (328iT), and the drive train is approved (335xi, 328xi, 328xiT), but you put them all together and you can't bring it into the country without a major hassle

-dave

[m_thompson]

I want a 123xd.

[aaron529]

It just doesnt make sense to me. Y even bother with the 335d or x5d when they have 118d and the 318d out with superb economy. Obviously people who buy these 2 models are concerned with economy and would be willing to give up performance to have a BMW.

[BrokenVert]

Thats what never made sense to me. BMW bring over your full line of diesels and axe cars like the x5m and x6m and boom, instant cafe approval

[gnat]

Originally Posted by aaron529

It just doesnt make sense to me. Y even bother with the 335d or x5d when they have 118d and the 318d out with superb economy. Obviously people who buy these 2 models are concerned with economy and would be willing to give up performance to have a BMW.

Actually I can understand it perfectly well. The non-turbo diesels won't have that "sporty" performance that the average American thinks defines "sporty" (e.g. collectively we think 0-60 is what defines a sports car, but enthusiasts know that it's much more than that). So if they brought the basic diesels over, it would likely tarnish the brand in the US and/or be a money sink for them.

By bringing the turbo diesels (just like VAG with the TDIs) they are A) showing that diesel != slow and B) gauging the average buyers acceptance of diesels in general.

In the regards to public acceptance, I would say it isn't very high in my area. BMWs in my area are almost as numerous as Hondas, yet since the 335d came out I have only seen 3 on the road (and I check every 335 I pass) and have not seen a single X5d. This is despite all the local dealers claiming that they are selling great and they can't keep them in stock...

Personally I'm a fan of diesel technology (BD specifically) and would be interested in their smaller diesels, but I recognize I am in the minority and not worth their effort.

-dave

[michifan]

Supposedly VW is going to be launching a number of diesels into the US over the next few years.

My brother just bought the 335d and loves it. But he got a screaming good deal and the tax credit.

[ND40oz]

Originally Posted by m_thompson

I want a 123xd.

What the heck is that? Or do you mean the X1 xDrive 23d?

Either way, remember the UK gas mileage is in Imperial gallons (4.54 liters to the gallon) vs. the U.S. gallon (3.78 liters to the gallon), so the listed mpg is going to be 20% higher then it would be in the U.S.

[gnat]

Originally Posted by ND40oz

What the heck is that? Or do you mean the X1 xDrive 23d?

I assume he is talking about an xDrive version of the 1 which I don't believe exists (please do not correct me if I am wrong as I will be sorely upset as I would jump on an AWD 1 in a heart beat ).

-dave

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by ND40oz

What the heck is that? Or do you mean the X1 xDrive 23d?

no it's the super awesome version of the 123. XD

[///M///M Good]

Originally Posted by Tom K.

True, but I neglected to mention that I probably pay less in total for fueling my 128i & 328i than our UK diesel driving counterparts due to the extreme difference in gasoline taxes.

If we gradually increased the federal gas tax from 18.4 cents to $2.00, I bet we would see folks clamoring for more fuel efficient cars. And we might be able to do something about our deplorable roads & bridges.

Tom

And what in the history of the U.S. Congress makes you think that money would be used for roads and bridges? I'm sure that the wise folks in DC could find much more important and pressing needs to be filled than fixing roads, like guarantees on loans to prospective homeowners who have histories of not paying their bills [Democrats] or tax breaks to highly profitable oil companies [Republicans].

[michifan]

Originally Posted by ///M///M Good

And what in the history of the U.S. Congress makes you think that money would be used for roads and bridges? I'm sure that the wise folks in DC could find much more important and pressing needs to be filled than fixing roads, like guarantees on loans to prospective homeowners who have histories of not paying their bills [Democrats] or tax breaks to highly profitable oil companies [Republicans].

In today's hyper-partisian environment, no good ideas will ever pass - because the other side will demagogue it beyond recognition.

I remember when cap and trade was first discussed - by Republicans....

[Tom K.]

Originally Posted by ///M///M Good

And what in the history of the U.S. Congress makes you think that money would be used for roads and bridges? I'm sure that the wise folks in DC could find much more important and pressing needs to be filled than fixing roads, like guarantees on loans to prospective homeowners who have histories of not paying their bills [Democrats] or tax breaks to highly profitable oil companies [Republicans].

Start with the federal Highway Revenue Act (1956) which created the Highway Trust Fund using cash from federal gas taxes & other user fees in order to build the US interstate system without dipping into general revenues.

But given the current political climate, michifan is probably right.

Tom

[Amalfitano]

We also can't forget the US' more restrictive emissions

[fwmcb]

I honestly would rather drive one of the BMW efficient powerplants rather than drive some hybrid lump.

[clausy]

Originally Posted by Amalfitano

We also can't forget the US' more restrictive emissions

This is the reason. Its the same reason you can't buy a 1.3L Golf. The emissions are apparently done off amount of CO2, SOX and NOX per cubic foot. Not of cubic foot per amount of gas burnt, or per mile or whatever. The Dealer told me that smaller engines burn less cleanly, albeit burn obviously much less overall. So while they easily create less emissions, the emission per fixed volume is higher so they fail. How wonderful. Legislation sponsored by Exxon no doubt.

[JimD]

Diesel is not quite as available as gasoline, some stations do not offer diesel. BMW diesels require low sulfur fuel which is just now becoming common. I don't know if it is universal yet.

Another factor that hurts diesel in the U. S. is the "green" crowd who want to measure NOx per mile or something like that do not like diesels. So they campaign that diesels, despite their superior fuel economy, are not "green" but electric vehicles and hybrids are. Diesels are somewhat politically incorrect in certain circles, in other words. And these circles are part of the natural market for diesels - people who care a lot (or think they do) about the environment.

I agree with the other comments, I just wanted to add a couple additional thoughts.

If it had been similar in price, I probably would have purchased a turbo diesel 4 instead of my NA 6. I like torque and only use the hp of my 6 occasionally. The added fuel economy would be welcome all the time. But a non-turbo 4 would probably be to slow to me, I would have to drive it to be sure. I don't want a BMW that feels like my old Festiva (even though I kind of liked it).

Jim

[m_thompson]

Originally Posted by ND40oz

What the heck is that? Or do you mean the X1 xDrive 23d?

A little clarification... I would like an M-Sport 1-series coupe with a 2.0L Twin-Turbo Diesel, 6MT, and AWD. Does that make it an xDrive 123d? As far as I know it is not available, especially in the US.