Quality/reliabilty concerns

[boostm3]

Over the last 6 mos, Ive investigated Audis, GTIs, Genesys Cpes, G37s, Mustang GTs, etc, etc.. And, I've whittled it down to two: 135i cpe and GTI.

I was all set to order the 2011 135i when I started to consider more seriously issues Ive read in these pages: HPFP issues, water in the foot well, rattling sunroofs, delaminating leather on seats and panels, etc, all of which Ive read on these pages, and I dont mind telling you, its making me damn nervous!

See I currently own a '99 E36 M3 modded to include Vortech supercharger, RMS intercooler, Dinan Koni suspension, etc, etc.. Its got 81k miles on it, and while Ive loved the car since I bought it new in 1999, its had its share of quality issues also.. The radiator neck cracks, the water pump dies early, the rear shock towers are too weak and frequently crack needing welded in replacements, the 5th gear gate on the manny tranny dies, and more.

I was hoping that now that its 11 yrs later, quality would be better... But now Im not so sure.

Somebody PLEASE put my aching mind at rest and tell me the 135i quality/reliability is as good as the GTI.. I realy want the 135i, but dont want to enter into a new morass of quality problems. I realize that it looks as though at least the HPFP issues may be gone with the N55 engine..But while it seems complaints are down, we arent really sure. And as for the other issues, its hard to tell whether these are isolated ones, or permeate the model.. Consumer Reports dings us with a below avg rating, with engine and body integrity issues predominant.. It might improve with the 2011s... But in the end, I just dont want to be in the position after I buy the car where Im saying to myself, 'its your own damn fault stupid; you read of these issues and still chose the 135 over the GTI'. I love this car, but dont want to fall into this trap..

HELP

[KingOfJericho]

I sold my 2008.5 GTI to buy the 135i. The GTI motor (TSI) doesn't like to be revved and, to me, sounded like it was going to die at any moment. Take a look at the condition of the older VWs you see around compare to the BMWs. I don't like the look of the MKVI at all but I did LOVE the look of my MKV. I do miss the car sometimes but I don't regret going to the 135i. There's just no comparison when you drive them back to back (I had them both for about a month).

[Raine]

You can't really compare a GTI engine to a 135i lol. The HPFP issues are unsettling though, I wonder if there's a permanent fix for it, but I've heard no issues from the '11 N55 engines yet.

As for quality, I honestly don't see that many old VWs compared to old BMWs.

[type135i]

Bad thing about message boards is lots of people end up here because they were searching for information about a problem in the first place. Or they are a true enthusiast. Either way you end up with people that really love the car or are having problems. The majority of owners who are happy or content never seek out the forums. This exaggerates the problems and makes them appear more wide spread.

[MarkR171]

As Raine has noted, there has been no reports of any HPFP issues with the new N55 engine for 2011 models. My sunroof doesn't rattle, actually, nothing in my car rattles. I had a rattle but it turned about to be a seatbelt buckle hitting something. My 2011 is past 3000 miles and 11 autocross runs through it and it's still rock solid.

[boostm3]

Originally Posted by MarkR171

As Raine has noted, there has been no reports of any HPFP issues with the new N55 engine for 2011 models. My sunroof doesn't rattle, actually, nothing in my car rattles. I had a rattle but it turned about to be a seatbelt buckle hitting something. My 2011 is past 3000 miles and 11 autocross runs through it and it's still rock solid.

Well, that is encouraging. You read these pages and after awhile, you start to think Everybody who owns one has a problem. Just read the thread titles: 'thump in the glove box', 'Air Conditioning Useless', 'Water in Footwell', 'Headliner/Sunroof rattle', 'Indentations in dashboard', and on it goes. For someone seriously considering purchasing the car, this can be quite disconcerting. I dont see this many issues on the GTI board, however the thread/post count here is much higher, so its really not a fair comparo.

I think its a matter of risk vs reward... While there are a good number of satisfied owners who have few if any issues, the ratings from Consumer Reports belie any complacency any 135i owner should have. And its in this numbers game in which I frame my concerns. I bought a sectional from Macy's in a terrific looking terra cotta leather which fits the room in my new townhouse perfectly... Too late, I started reading reviews on the web site about how the leather starts sagging in short order, and the cushioning loses support. Sure enough, in a couple of months, I was singing the same tune.. I vowed then never to disregard what other owners are saying in product reviews.. And yet, i do love this car.. it satisfies my power yen, my sporting yen, my eco yen (rated 23 mpg overall), and the fact that the 2011s offer n/c leather and usb port doesnt hurt... And the fact that i can get it at invoice + $300 just makes it all the more difficult to pass up.

Am I being foolhardy in letting emotion and promo pricing lure me while disregarding the disconcerting knowledge that many owners are having varying degrees issues ranging from annoying to serious? Do the odds favor my receiving a 'good' one? Or does the current numbers game make this too big a risk to take? I realize everyone must make this decision for himself, but judging from the number of owners here who share crippling HPFP issues, it would seem most purchasers somehow manage to overlook this crippling issue, praying or hoping it somehow will bypass them.

[sdpauly]

I have owned two VW's in the past.

1998 GTI VR6

2004 R32

Both were great cars, interior quality was good and I never had many of the common problems that other VW owners had. My '98 GTI did get annoying after a few years the interior started to squeak and rattle kind of badly.

My R32 didn't have the squeaks and rattles, but the leather on the seat bolsters would scuff kind of easily. Aside from that, the only other issue I had with the R32 interior quality is the fact that the top of the seats would hit the sun visor and get stuck there if you didn't know the trick to it.

I havent owned the BMW long enough to know if it will develop interior squeaks and rattles, but it seems pretty tight and quiet for now. I do have the dreaded armrest squeak, I'm going to see if the dealer can fix it when I take it in for the 15k service...

Now, comparing the motors... (I'm not talking 1.8T or 2.0T here because I never owned one) The VR6 is a very narrow angle V6 so in reality it behaves very much like an inline-6. There is lots of torque down low. The big difference is the turbo, the N54 really (like REALLY REALLY) pulls hard in the mid to high RPM range. You get a lot more top end performance in the BMW.

Regarding the HPFP, I'm not too worried about it. BMW has warrantied them to 120k miles and I'm pretty sure I would have sold the car by then...

[clausy]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

I sold my 2008.5 GTI to buy the 135i. The GTI motor (TSI) doesn't like to be revved and, to me, sounded like it was going to die at any moment. Take a look at the condition of the older VWs you see around compare to the BMWs. I don't like the look of the MKVI at all but I did LOVE the look of my MKV. I do miss the car sometimes but I don't regret going to the 135i. There's just no comparison when you drive them back to back (I had them both for about a month).

Ha, me too! Traded up. 135i makes the GTi feel like a toy, even though the GTi was FAST. FWD vs RWD. No comparison. Don't got there. I like the VI better than the V though.

[boostm3]

Guys, thanks for all your responses... Here's a followup question: would you buy another 135i? And, if you are one of the former GTI owners, which did you prefer living with? Which was 'easier' to live with?

[michifan]

I'm more than happy with my 135 and will most likely be buying it off lease. I've had no more issues with my BMW than I've had with Fords, Hondas and Infinitis.

I can say that VW has been a bane to my family. My wife had a Jetta that was a complete POS and my brother dumped his Audi A4 after one year because it was a POS.

One thing about the internet, is that you only see extremes. People love and hate, but those that buy and are content have other things to do than post online.

[Gator135]

I must admit that the reliability/quality issues I read about on this forum gave me second thoughts about getting a BMW. Fuel pump failures should be a very rare occurrence on a modern car. Especially a premium brand like BMW.

Now that I'm driving the 135, it's an excellent car and I'm glad I got it. Nothing against VW, but it's a different class in my opinion.

[fancyfl1ght]

Originally Posted by boostm3

Over the last 6 mos, Ive investigated Audis, GTIs, Genesys Cpes, G37s, Mustang GTs, etc, etc.. And, I've whittled it down to two: 135i cpe and GTI.

I was all set to order the 2011 135i when I started to consider more seriously issues Ive read in these pages: HPFP issues, water in the foot well, rattling sunroofs, delaminating leather on seats and panels, etc, all of which Ive read on these pages, and I dont mind telling you, its making me damn nervous!

See I currently own a '99 E36 M3 modded to include Vortech supercharger, RMS intercooler, Dinan Koni suspension, etc, etc.. Its got 81k miles on it, and while Ive loved the car since I bought it new in 1999, its had its share of quality issues also.. The radiator neck cracks, the water pump dies early, the rear shock towers are too weak and frequently crack needing welded in replacements, the 5th gear gate on the manny tranny dies, and more.

I was hoping that now that its 11 yrs later, quality would be better... But now Im not so sure.

Somebody PLEASE put my aching mind at rest and tell me the 135i quality/reliability is as good as the GTI.. I realy want the 135i, but dont want to enter into a new morass of quality problems. I realize that it looks as though at least the HPFP issues may be gone with the N55 engine..But while it seems complaints are down, we arent really sure. And as for the other issues, its hard to tell whether these are isolated ones, or permeate the model.. Consumer Reports dings us with a below avg rating, with engine and body integrity issues predominant.. It might improve with the 2011s... But in the end, I just dont want to be in the position after I buy the car where Im saying to myself, 'its your own damn fault stupid; you read of these issues and still chose the 135 over the GTI'. I love this car, but dont want to fall into this trap..

HELP

You have nothing to worry about! I have no reservations in recommending the 1er to friends and family.

[fancyfl1ght]

Originally Posted by michifan

I'm more than happy with my 135 and will most likely be buying it off lease. I've had no more issues with my BMW than I've had with Fords, Hondas and Infinitis.

I can say that VW has been a bane to my family. My wife had a Jetta that was a complete POS and my brother dumped his Audi A4 after one year because it was a POS.

One thing about the internet, is that you only see extremes. People love and hate, but those that buy and are content have other things to do than post online.

Carbon deposits in their engines. This impacts all of the VW and Audi engines including the RS4. Very disappointing.

[michifan]

Originally Posted by fancyfl1ght

Carbon deposits in their engines. This impacts all of the VW and Audi engines including the RS4. Very disappointing.

His A4 went through so much oil that it just freaked him out. Worst part was his dealer telling him that ALL high performance cars go through oil like that. He knew better and got out.

[jkp1187]

I learned about the HPFP issues when I was looking. I bought it anyway.

In April, after a year of ownership, I had a couple of long cranks. The dealer updated the software, and I haven't had any problems since. Sure, it may yet break, but the driving enjoyment is enough for me to not worry about it.

The GTI is a fine car, and perhaps a little more practical than the 135i since it's a hatchback. If you want to do some modding, you can have a GTI hang with (or at least near) a stock 135i for significantly less cash than buying the 135i. It depends on what you want, and how much you're willing/able to pay.

I have heard that VW quality has improved in recent years compared with what they were selling around 2000-2005. I still hear some complaints about the VW dealership network on VW forums.

Bottom line: I'd buy the 135i again. I also wouldn't hesitate to buy a GTI. I don't think "reliability" can be the deciding factor between these two cars; it's probably a wash between the two.

If reliability truly is the end-all be-all for your car-buying decision, and you're willing to trade power for it, consider a Honda Civic SI.

[///M///M Good]

I don't think that your mods are necessarily causing all the problems you've had, but one of my pet peeves is people who mod their cars and then blame the manufacturer when the car has increased problems. Is it possible that your 5th gear problems are related to the supercharger and the additional torque that you are asking the tranny to deal with? Is it possible that the lower / stiffer suspension is contributing to your shock tower problems? Is it possible that the additional cooling requirements due to the supercharger are wearing the water pump out faster? Cars are engineered to a level of performance / stress. If you put in more powerful / stressful components, the car wears out faster.

[boostm3]

>>I don't think that your mods are necessarily causing all the problems you've had, but one of my pet peeves is people who mod their cars and then blame the manufacturer when the car has increased problems. Is it possible that your 5th gear problems are related to the supercharger and the additional torque that you are asking the tranny to deal with? <<

Has nothing to do with it... There is a 50 page thread going on where there are over 1000 posts from people with mostly stock cars are dealing with this malady: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...ght=fifth+gate

Matter of fact, every malfunction you refer to is a well known E36 problem faced more by stock owners than upgraders. While sometimes it is true that upgrades overstress stock components beyond their inherent designs, these are not examples of them!

What you say is theoretically true.. In practice, however, these are no more than design weaknesses which plague E36 owners of modified and non modified cars alike.

[MarkR171]

Originally Posted by boostm3

Guys, thanks for all your responses... Here's a followup question: would you buy another 135i? And, if you are one of the former GTI owners, which did you prefer living with? Which was 'easier' to live with?

If I had the opportunity to go back in time and do it all over again, yes. I would order my 135i the exact same way I did. I love the car and have not had an issue yet, then again, it's only 4 months old.

Will I buy another in the future? No, I'll get a 1-series M.

As for the GTi, I test drove one and simply didn't like it, but that's me. A lot of people seem to love that car.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by boostm3

Guys, thanks for all your responses... Here's a followup question: would you buy another 135i? And, if you are one of the former GTI owners, which did you prefer living with? Which was 'easier' to live with?

I would get the 135i again in a heartbeat.

The GTI really seemed like it was going to break at any time. As for which one is easier to live with... it really depends on what you do. Neither car is huge but you are comparing a hatch to a formal coupe so it's not a fair comparo. If you have an M3 coupe right now and go to a 135 you will find it to be about the same where the GTI might have some added utility due to its shape but the trunk is MUCH larger in the 135 with passengers in the car. We discovered this a few weeks ago going to the beach when we piled 4 people in the GTI and could not fit enough beach chairs in the trunk.

Also something to keep in mind that the GTI does 0-60 in about 7 seconds while the 135 is under 5. The GTI might feel fast but it is not while I was amazed by how quickly things became miniaturized in the rearview of the 1er.

Also, I know someone mentioned this before but dealers have been saying "the quality has improved greatly since the last generation" since the dawn of time. Of course a new car is going to have fewer problems than an older car but they really have NO CLUE if the quality improved until a few years down the road.

[imported_mega]

Originally Posted by fancyfl1ght

Carbon deposits in their engines. This impacts all of the VW and Audi engines including the RS4. Very disappointing.

same problem with he n54 there's threads with pictures of the buildup on another forum

all DI engines are gonna have this issue

[michifan]

Originally Posted by imported_mega

same problem with he n54 there's threads with pictures of the buildup on another forum

all DI engines are gonna have this issue

Audi/VW are really bad comparisons. I have been using Redline SI-1, only Top Grade Premium and Oil Changes every 6000 miles. I'm pretty sure that my carbon issues are benign.

[imported_mega]

Originally Posted by michifan

Audi/VW are really bad comparisons. I have been using Redline SI-1, only Top Grade Premium and Oil Changes every 6000 miles. I'm pretty sure that my carbon issues are benign.

dont matter, the fuel does not touch the valves up there, that is why they have carbon buildup, and wait till you google the n54 carbon buildup pictures before you say the audi/vw ones are bad