Dinan Stage 2

[jeff4598]

Jsut came home with my 2009 e90 with Stage 2 suspension and flash,intake and exhaust(covered in engine mod forum)

Impressions:

My bias is for FEEL rather than ultimate potential so please take comments in that context-I used to drive EDC in sport cause I could'nt tolerate nonlinear feel and initial turn-in body lean despite sacrifice in ultimate handiling that was explained by forum memebers.

Now very happy in EDC "normal" I feel ride is firmer this way than pre-mod sport setting but key is that there is very little body lean and very little dive on braking this way and I get the upside of adjustability in "normal" mode. Some major road imperfections seems to cause bottoming where they would not have before but this is around town only-highway ride is great.

Steering is more direct and "serious" feeling- much firmer steering feel-like triple servotronic sport- slightly heavy on slow 90 dgree turns but appropriate to sports sedan IMO.

Even with sway bar I would like car to be a bit flatter in turns but it is alot better than stock. I wonder re fitting bigger e93 rear sway bar. Any thoghts?

Now good and bad/well great and kinda annoying:

I only did one exit ramp and one curvy road but this car is TRANSFORMED- I loved the increase in FEEL and instead of braking I just stayed on the gas with no sense of any limit-I'd have to drive a 911 back to back to say wich has higher limits but what I know for sure is that the 911 I drove did not FEEL anywhere near this good.

The annoying: my service guy warned me increades camber would make car sensitive to lateral road imperfections and indeed on multi-laned roads where the crowning makes the left lane go downhill to the left and the rt to the rt I have to apply constant preasure the other way to go straight and in center lane of 3 lanes you have to go back and forth if you stray from the absolute highest point-this could be tiresome on long trips(both mentaly and physicaly). I worry re reaction to snow ruts in winter. Does this sound normal to people or copuld I have a problem?

[JJM335]

Originally Posted by jeff4598

The annoying: my service guy warned me increades camber would make car sensitive to lateral road imperfections and indeed on multi-laned roads where the crowning makes the left lane go downhill to the left and the rt to the rt I have to apply constant preasure the other way to go straight and in center lane of 3 lanes you have to go back and forth if you stray from the absolute highest point-this could be tiresome on long trips(both mentaly and physicaly). I worry re reaction to snow ruts in winter. Does this sound normal to people or copuld I have a problem?

This is normal for a car with lots of neg camber up front. The usual description is that a car gets "pointy" the more camber you add. Also, through the adjustment range a car will (generally) move from understeer to neutral to snap oversteer.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by jeff4598

The annoying: my service guy warned me increades camber would make car sensitive to lateral road imperfections and indeed on multi-laned roads where the crowning makes the left lane go downhill to the left and the rt to the rt I have to apply constant preasure the other way to go straight and in center lane of 3 lanes you have to go back and forth if you stray from the absolute highest point-this could be tiresome on long trips(both mentaly and physicaly). I worry re reaction to snow ruts in winter. Does this sound normal to people or copuld I have a problem?

Not sure if I get this. Stage 2 suspension does not include camber plates. What front camber are you currently running exactly? I have the camber plates and the springs (no bar swap) and I have had no such issues (I'm running -1.95, which is pretty much the maximum you can get with the Dinan setup).

[jeff4598]

was not given camber #'s it is set to Dinan spec. It may relate to sway bar-it makes steering VERY tight-so much that the lighter effort steering setting is now much harder than the higher effort used to be- and as I said the firm setting feels realy intense like it's hardly power steering at speed.(but not much worse at low speed so parking is ok if you go to the gym)- so maybe enough play is taken out of the system that it doesnt absorb small continuous force to the side. Feeling is that handling is neutal but I think it felt even better with weight of removed components in trunk.

[datbimmerdoe]

Great info! thanks

[TLud]

Originally Posted by jeff4598

The annoying: my service guy warned me increades camber would make car sensitive to lateral road imperfections and indeed on multi-laned roads where the crowning makes the left lane go downhill to the left and the rt to the rt I have to apply constant preasure the other way to go straight and in center lane of 3 lanes you have to go back and forth if you stray from the absolute highest point-this could be tiresome on long trips(both mentaly and physicaly). I worry re reaction to snow ruts in winter. Does this sound normal to people or copuld I have a problem?

While the increased negative camber almost certainly plays a role, I suspect the real culprit here is the stiffer front sway bar. Your front wheels are now moving less independently, so when one wheel is riding lower than the other, it's likely pulling the higher wheel with it. Based on your change in steering feel, which is definitely due to the new bar, the stiffer bar is clearly having a significant impact on your setup.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by jeff4598

was not given camber #'s it is set to Dinan spec. It may relate to sway bar-it makes steering VERY tight-so much that the lighter effort steering setting is now much harder than the higher effort used to be- and as I said the firm setting feels realy intense like it's hardly power steering at speed.(but not much worse at low speed so parking is ok if you go to the gym)- so maybe enough play is taken out of the system that it doesnt absorb small continuous force to the side. Feeling is that handling is neutal but I think it felt even better with weight of removed components in trunk.

I would ask them to provide you with the alignment specs. He is talking about increased camber, but you don't even have camber plates, and the stock camber adjustment range is limited, so that's puzzling. Also, toe settings can be causing some of what you are describing. What is your toe set to?

[TLud]

Originally Posted by lucid

I would ask them to provide you with the alignment specs. He is talking about increased camber, but you don't even have camber plates, and the stock camber adjustment range is limited, so that's puzzling. Also, toe settings can be causing some of what you are describing. What is your toe set to?

Yep, and I doubt the BMW dealer will pull the alignment pins.

[TLud]

Originally Posted by lucid

I would ask them to provide you with the alignment specs. He is talking about increased camber, but you don't even have camber plates, and the stock camber adjustment range is limited, so that's puzzling. Also, toe settings can be causing some of what you are describing. What is your toe set to?

It looks like Dinan's alignment specs do in fact call for non-0 toe settings. Not sure if it's enough to make a big difference though.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5637154

[jeff4598]

The car feels very stable and neutral to me- I think it's the sway bars- I have gone to the non-sport servtronic setting to reduce steering effort- but let me be clear overall I like it alot-it realy is like another car MUCH sportier feel -sort of like what I imagine a VIPER feels like-stiff, tough but very capable and agile. I am accelerating on curves were I would coast or brake and am very relaxed doing so.

My wife's comment after dinner out trip: "You don't seem like you are working as hard to drive the car." {flash and resultant throttle linearity helps alot here- I feel like a smoother driver} My way of understanding it is that the control is very direct like riding a bicycle- I just think it and the car does it and no further adjustment is needed- perhaps the most remarkable attribute is that it holds a set in a sweeper FOREVER with no little inputs needed- it's just locked in.

If I had to choose 2 mods I think it's the flash and the sway that do the most for me.

[TOOMANYCARS]

Nice, how much was the total? Parts + labor.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by TLud

It looks like Dinan's alignment specs do in fact call for non-0 toe settings. Not sure if it's enough to make a big difference though.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5637154

Yes, I have 0 toe up front as well. No issues.

[jeff4598]

For intale,exhaust,flash,springs and sway bar~$6200 I think `$2300 for just suspension work. I'd say the car is 30% better for circa 9% additional cost and considering law of diminishing returns thats outstanding.

[doba_s]

isn't e93 sway bars are the same size as Dinan bars ?

[CSanto]

Awesome! Thanks for the review!

[jeff4598]

Dinan only makes a FRONT sway bar-my understanding is that the e93 REAR bar is bigger than the one in my e90 and therefore an "upgrade"-I am not expert enough to speculate on its likey effect.

[ersin]

Originally Posted by jeff4598

My bias is for FEEL rather than ultimate potential so please take comments in that context-I used to drive EDC in sport cause I could'nt tolerate nonlinear feel and initial turn-in body lean despite sacrifice in ultimate handiling that was explained by forum memebers.

Now very happy in EDC "normal" I feel ride is firmer this way than pre-mod sport setting but key is that there is very little body lean and very little dive on braking this way and I get the upside of adjustability in "normal" mode. Some major road imperfections seems to cause bottoming where they would not have before but this is around town only-highway ride is great.

Excuse my ignorance, I haven't done much research about Dinan offerings. Do you keep your stock (EDC) shocks or do they have a replacement for EDC dampers?

Originally Posted by jeff4598

Steering is more direct and "serious" feeling- much firmer steering feel-like triple servotronic sport- slightly heavy on slow 90 dgree turns but appropriate to sports sedan IMO.

Even with sway bar I would like car to be a bit flatter in turns but it is alot better than stock. I wonder re fitting bigger e93 rear sway bar. Any thoghts?

So, just the front sways were upgraded, or both?

Originally Posted by jeff4598

Now good and bad/well great and kinda annoying:

I only did one exit ramp and one curvy road but this car is TRANSFORMED- I loved the increase in FEEL and instead of braking I just stayed on the gas with no sense of any limit-I'd have to drive a 911 back to back to say wich has higher limits but what I know for sure is that the 911 I drove did not FEEL anywhere near this good.

That's saying a lot!

Originally Posted by jeff4598

The annoying: my service guy warned me increades camber would make car sensitive to lateral road imperfections and indeed on multi-laned roads where the crowning makes the left lane go downhill to the left and the rt to the rt I have to apply constant preasure the other way to go straight and in center lane of 3 lanes you have to go back and forth if you stray from the absolute highest point-this could be tiresome on long trips(both mentaly and physicaly). I worry re reaction to snow ruts in winter. Does this sound normal to people or copuld I have a problem?

Snow ruts in winter? Don't drive the M3 in snow. Get a beater or a 4WD for winter. Seriously.