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[4wheelcycle]

This is really a maintenance question, but I am putting it on the Wheels and Tires forum because it is about wheel bolt torque.

When I put on my winter wheels and tires yesterday, I realized BMW recommends 88 ft lbs of torque. My torque wrench only goes up to 80 lbs., so I went to 80 and then just a little more. I probably have about 82 lbs on the wheel bolts.

I looked on the Internet, and most general car maintenance sites recommend 70 to 80 lbs for 12 mm diameter wheels bolts. I understand BMW used to recommend a lower torque also, but at some point they changed to 88 lbs.

My question is, do I need to buy a new torque wrench just to get up to 88 ft lbs, or is something a little over 80 good enough?

[mikeo]

Don't worry, they allow +/- 4 ft lbs. I ran my wheels torqued to 75 ft lbs. for years without a problem.

[Gray135i]

I don't think you'll have a problem so long as you're consistent on each lug. I've had cars that vibrated due to the wheel torques being off more than 1-2 ft/lbs per lug.

[EspressoBoy]

I am waiting for a 1/2 inch torque wrench for this very reason. It's on back order and I only have to pay 20 loonies (Canadian dollars). I also will be getting an aluminium jack that should be able to slide under the car. If you are still worried, just keep you eyes open for a sale. I doubt the wheels will come off but most good places actually ask you to come back for an inspection and they re-check the torque. (Costoco Canada has it on their invoice, in the small print)

EspressoBoy

[ChrisK]

Originally Posted by 4wheelcycle

This is really a maintenance question, but I am putting it on the Wheels and Tires forum because it is about wheel bolt torque.

When I put on my winter wheels and tires yesterday, I realized BMW recommends 88 ft lbs of torque. My torque wrench only goes up to 80 lbs., so I went to 80 and then just a little more. I probably have about 82 lbs on the wheel bolts.

I looked on the Internet, and most general car maintenance sites recommend 70 to 80 lbs for 12 mm diameter wheels bolts. I understand BMW used to recommend a lower torque also, but at some point they changed to 88 lbs.

My question is, do I need to buy a new torque wrench just to get up to 88 ft lbs, or is something a little over 80 good enough?

I totally agree with everyone...

Uniform torque across the bolts is more important than getting exactly 88 ft lbs of torque.

[EspressoBoy]

Personally 87.942 is what I was going for... LOL
(joke/being silly)


That's good to know thanks Chris, I will keep that in mind when my wrench is here.

EspressoBoy

[ChrisK]

WHAT?!?

How can you call yourself a 1addict and not strive for a min of 87.9999 ft lbs of torque?

[EspressoBoy]

I'm Canadian?
We use a different formula?
As a baby, I was swung too much.
I am self medicated... Nurse nurse... where's my meds??? yer killen me! Nurse...
Its another ID-TEN-T ID10T error, it's an id-ten-t error...opps

I was thinking a few good alias... ID10T, AND 1-eye-man (in the land of the blind, the 1-eye-man rules)

EspressoBoy
(joke/being silly)

[ChrisK]

LMAO

[vanbmw]

espressoboy...be careful with a cheap torque wrench (unless it is the simple pointer with a scale kind instead of the click type). I have heard of problems with a cheap (or poorly calibrated wrench) not clicking at the set torque value and SNAP goes the bolt. I know my 1/2 torque wrench I bought has one big ass handle and I was suprised at how much leverage it provides. I tried playing with some bolts and the 88lbs setting click outs of out with minimal effort. I checked the calibration off another torque wrench to make sure it was correct. I am sure if I really layed into the wrench I could do some damage to a bolt.

[EspressoBoy]

Van,

A very good point. My neighbour has like 4 torque wrenches so I will ask him about it. I will compare on his car. ((I sold it to him at a really good discount) so not to think I am an eh-h*ole. Thanks for the waning.

Oh princess auto on Dixie (Mississauga) have an amazing return policy.

EspesssoBoy

PS
I hate borrowing and any1 should have their own torque wrench is changing their own winters.

[JiveTurkey]

I learned this a while back, just thought I would share. Suppose your torque wrench is a "0-to-150 ft-lbs" model. Can you tighten this bolt with confidence at the correct torque value, based on this tool's range? The short answer is no. The reason? These devices depend on a calibrated spring, and thus they lose accuracy when you operate them below 20 % or above 80% of their rated range. Below 10% or above 90%, and you're asking for trouble. The correct torque wrench would read the required torque within 50% to 75% of its capacity. You have to know about range and span. The range of the scale is the top of the scale and the bottom of the scale. For example, a 50-to-200 ft-lb wrench has a range of 50 to 200 ft-lbs. The span is the difference between the top of the range and the bottom of the range. In our example, this wrench has a span of 150 ft-lbs (200 ft-lbs minus 50 ft-lbs). Add 50% and 75% of 150 to the bottom of the range, and you are looking at 125 to 162.5 ft-lbs.

[EspressoBoy]

Originally Posted by JiveTurkey

I learned this a while back, just thought I would share. Suppose your torque wrench is a "0-to-150 ft-lbs" model. Can you tighten this bolt with confidence at the correct torque value, based on this tool's range? The short answer is no. The reason? These devices depend on a calibrated spring, and thus they lose accuracy when you operate them below 20 % or above 80% of their rated range. Below 10% or above 90%, and you're asking for trouble. The correct torque wrench would read the required torque within 50% to 75% of its capacity. You have to know about range and span. The range of the scale is the top of the scale and the bottom of the scale. For example, a 50-to-200 ft-lb wrench has a range of 50 to 200 ft-lbs. The span is the difference between the top of the range and the bottom of the range. In our example, this wrench has a span of 150 ft-lbs (200 ft-lbs minus 50 ft-lbs). Add 50% and 75% of 150 to the bottom of the range, and you are looking at 125 to 162.5 ft-lbs.

Thanks for the post... but I don't get it...

In a nutshell you are saying that the torque wrench that uses the "click" not the arrow type work best in the middle of it's range. Whe you use it from 0-20% it's not as accurate, and the same for the top at 80-100%.

Do I have that right?

So if I get the 1/2 inch 0-150 lb it should be ok at 88 lb torque. Is that not correct? That is why buying the 3/8 that only went up to 80 is not a good choice. Correct?

Sorry if I got that wrong. Please walk me through this... if so.

I will compare/test it to my neighbour's tools. If it is wrong, back it goes.

I remember buying a weight scale at costco about 4 years ago, that did an electonic display, it was "cool" but in the end, it was wrong a lot, and it was only able to notice 2 lb difference. It was like $30 CAD. Anyway I would stand on it, pick up another 5 lbs of onions, and no difference. Anyway it was junk.

I got a TANITA Body Fat Scale 680 and it does .2 lb increments and it is very accurate.

So maybe I should skip the $20 Torque in the end and buy branded! Hmmm Anyone recommend best brand?

EspressoBoy

PS
Any Canucks reading, I am showing my age, I still like to think I am in LBS, but I can do KMs too... I blame the grocery store, always displaying lbs for those cheaper prices! And I blame Obama... (I just want to be the first to say that, since I am sure everyone and his brother will blame him for all the problems once he becomes leader...or not)

[JiveTurkey]

[quote=EspressoBoy;278648]Thanks for the post... but I don't get it...

In a nutshell you are saying that the torque wrench that uses the "click" not the arrow type work best in the middle of it's range. Whe you use it from 0-20% it's not as accurate, and the same for the top at 80-100%.

Do I have that right? Yes this is correct.



So if I get the 1/2 inch 0-150 lb it should be ok at 88 lb torque. Is that not correct? That is why buying the 3/8 that only went up to 80 is not a good choice. Correct? Yes, you are learning quick young padawan.

[gio]

wow, is this really that important? I'm must be pretty out of it but I always switched the wheels on my old car by tightening them as much as I could by hand and then jumping on the wrench with a solid pair of boots. I've *never* had a place I've paid to swap my wheels ever be that accurate when tightening the bolt. Usually they make them so tight it's nearly impossible to get a wheel off.

[EspressoBoy]

gio,

In case you didn't notice, even the direction your rub the wax in, matters here... We in Mississauga on Mon/Wed/Fri rub counter-clockwise but only if it's overcast, and the ducks are flying south. Then we use a different method. If you want to know that, you have to sign up for the VIP account, that has yet to come out in 09.

EspressoBoy
(yes I am extra silly today, it's the meds...honest...nurse...yer...killen..me..nurse)

[EspressoBoy]

Since this is killing the torque issue, and I kind of hijacked this tread...(always)... what is the best way to compare torque wrenches?

Say I have 1 new one, and 4 neighbour ones? He has the old arrow, and a few others...hay he even has oxyacetylene in his garage, and some 80 year old jeep from WWII I think he said. Anyone who sharpens their drill bits has everything! LOL I just hate borrowing stuff, cause I also hate lending it,and getting it back in like 20 years in 20 pieces... and then they claim it was theirs and they want it back...(I know engrave your name...etc)

EspressoBoy

[JiveTurkey]

Originally Posted by gio

wow, is this really that important? I'm must be pretty out of it but I always switched the wheels on my old car by tightening them as much as I could by hand and then jumping on the wrench with a solid pair of boots. I've *never* had a place I've paid to swap my wheels ever be that accurate when tightening the bolt. Usually they make them so tight it's nearly impossible to get a wheel off.

I work on aircraft, so I'm really anal about torque. Here is a good read from TireRack on wheel torque. http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/...jsp?techid=107

I would recommend not wrenching/jumping down with your foot.

[EspressoBoy]

JiveTurkey, thanks for the post.

Seriously how would I compare a few wrenchs for accuracy? It's not like you can un-torque right?

Just thinking...being a 1padiwan-torque-nut... I could torque the bold with 1 wrench, then try the next, if it turns and clicks... it could mean the first is not accurate. Hmmm this is a much harder one to compare, like my weight scale... any tips? Also what brands to torque wrenches are supposed to be the "best" (under 10k please, I don't want gold plated etc, or used by NASA)

EspressoBoy

[EspressoBoy]

JiveTurkey, if you want a good avatar, here is a good one!

EspressoBoy

[Cris]

Originally Posted by JiveTurkey

I work on aircraft, so I'm really anal about torque. Here is a good read from TireRack on wheel torque. http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/...jsp?techid=107

I would recommend not wrenching/jumping down with your foot.

I was gonna say... hooah, maintenance! I'm a 2WXX1 by trade, so I completely understand the importance of correct & accuracy of torquing.

[JiveTurkey]

Originally Posted by EspressoBoy

Since this is killing the torque issue, and I kind of hijacked this tread...(always)... what is the best way to compare torque wrenches?

Say I have 1 new one, and 4 neighbour ones? He has the old arrow, and a few others...hay he even has oxyacetylene in his garage, and some 80 year old jeep from WWII I think he said. Anyone who sharpens their drill bits has everything! LOL I just hate borrowing stuff, cause I also hate lending it,and getting it back in like 20 years in 20 pieces... and then they claim it was theirs and they want it back...(I know engrave your name...etc)

EspressoBoy

I don't know the best way to compare maybe torque wrenches. May be torque something and see how difficult it is to remove. BTW I have a Snap-On torque wrench.