Noob needs help driving a stick thread(again?)

[akak1997]

I've had the car for 3days now and I still could get the car to roll from a dead stop smoothly. I've gotten quite smooth from 1st->2nd (usually shift to 2nd at ~3k rpm, I think that's the smooth point for 2nd) and 3rd->4th, etc. But starting is just weird, or maybe I'm just too scared to stall (the more I panic, e.g. at a stop sign with cars waiting, the more I stall of coz), and not giving it enough gas or not letting the clutch out smooth enough.

My question is that, how much gas do you need to start the car from a dead stop smoothly? I's trying to keep it at around 1krpm when I start to let go of the clutch, is that too much? too little?

Any other tips?

I'm still not confident enough to drive this car in busy traffic, been only driving when not a lot of cars around...sigh...

Many Thanks

[Oregon]

Offered as an analogy, a mechanical metaphor; the clutch and throttle can be viewed as valves, choosing between requires balance, however, your right foot will resolve any stalling issue, give it more gas.:wink:

[jbenington86]

hahaha iv actually found out that if you are not on a hill and you let the clutch out smooth and slow you dont even need the gas....i bet its not the best thing to do to your car....1k or slightly above 1k is good....dont worry about rolling back because bmw invented that little contraption that stops it so you get some reasonable time to let off the break and start off....i have only been driving manual for slightly over a year so i know what you mean by you dont wanna drive in traffic

[jksgoh]

huh??????? how do you let the clutch out without eventually stepping on the gas? the engine will no doubt stall...

[Joey_T]

You should try launching from dead stop with more than 1k rpm (that's too low) - try with at least 500 more rpms. But keep in mind that revs will drop as you start moving, so you will need to apply more gas to keep your car smooth.

Hope that helps.

[xa-coupe]

Originally Posted by jksgoh

huh??????? how do you let the clutch out without eventually stepping on the gas? the engine will no doubt stall...

slipping the clutch sightly can do it... but you need a lot of torque to pull it off.. luckily for the 135 it has just that !

[atr_hugo]

Originally Posted by jksgoh

huh??????? how do you let the clutch out without eventually stepping on the gas? the engine will no doubt stall...

Well, the 'Hill Holder' will kep the car from rolling back (BMW has another name for it - it basically keeps the brakes on for a momnet between release of the brake pedal and appliationa of throttle). But BMW didnt invent it - hell, Studebaker had it in the fifties, IIRC. ; -)

[rocketpop]

Shoot, I've been driving a manual for the past 15+ years. The 135i is the first call I have stalled from a dead stop in years! I was at a red light, it was kind of embarrassing. Then I was panic'ing trying to hit the button to restart.

[MattD]

Originally Posted by xa-coupe

slipping the clutch sightly can do it... but you need a lot of torque to pull it off.. luckily for the 135 it has just that !

Nah, not at all. I can easily pull away from dead stop in my little 100lbft hatchback with no throttle, as long as I'm on the flat. It'll just be very slow, that's all. If you can't do it in a 300lbft 135i, then you can't control the clutch and should take some more time to learn how to drive a manual car.

Then try learning to modulate said left foot when attempting left foot braking, cos that's a whole other story!

As someone else posted above, I'd say aim for about 1500rpm when the clutch bites, then imagine your feet are attached to either end of a bar; as the clutch pedal comes up slowly, the gas pedal goes down at the same rate.

Once you get the hang of it, it'll be second nature...

Until you come across a car with a shockingly calibrated drive-by-wire throttle (a new Toyota Corolla in Sydney a few months back in my case), and then it all goes to pot. I could get an inch of travel out of the throttle without any revs if I was really gentle!

[JME]

^^

It just takes time to get the hang of it, really.

Like other people have mentioned, rev a little higher until you are comfortable launching at lower rpms.

Also, 3k might be a little higher than you need to go. I've been shifting every 10 mph (1-2 at 10, 2-3 at 20, etc) and its very smooth and my mileage has gone up considerably! The car has enough torque at the lower rpms that you don't need to pull it to 3k like you might in a 150 hp car. The only time you really need to hit the high rpms are when you really want to get going

[mistermojorizin]

here's a good exercise. don't give it any gas, and just let go of the clutch in 1st until it starts to roll smoothly.

once you get it - i.e. your body feels that the car doesn't need any gas, it'll be easy to start giving it a little gas without worrying about stalling.

also, don't look at the tach. easy in the 1 cause the wheel blocks it out of site. this will speed up the learning process. you wanna learn the feel.

[Xii]

Originally Posted by mistermojorizin

here's a good exercise. don't give it any gas, and just let go of the clutch in 1st until it starts to roll smoothly.

once you get it - i.e. your body feels that the car doesn't need any gas, it'll be easy to start giving it a little gas without worrying about stalling.

also, don't look at the tach. easy in the 1 cause the wheel blocks it out of site. this will speed up the learning process. you wanna learn the feel.

Agreed this is what my dad had me do back when I was learning to drive stick, just slowly release the clutch until it starts to creep foward. Practice makes perfect and the more you do it the easier it will become. I personally was terrified when I started learning to drive stick. Now I wouldn't have it any other way.

[Nice1]

I hope this helps. A bit of practice and you'll get it in no time.

[jksgoh]

oh you mean riding the clutch without any gas? well then ye you can slowly move forward (or back) like that.
thought you meant fully releasing the clutch with no gas lol

[akak1997]

Thanks for replies guys! I can't wait be able to drive smoothly and fully enjoy this car but I know everyone has to go thru this, but some, like me, just takes longer... lol

I've been practicing the no gas trick, but when I put more gas once the car starts to creep (maybe I've put too much or not enough gas) the car jerks. I never stall as a result of that, just kinda lame :P
I think I might not be letting out of the clutch in a Continuous move, could that be it?

[MattD]

Originally Posted by jksgoh

oh you mean riding the clutch without any gas? well then ye you can slowly move forward (or back) like that.
thought you meant fully releasing the clutch with no gas lol

Nope, you can fully release the clutch in first and pull away with no gas. You can probably do the same in second I suspect.

You're not going to beat anyone from the lights doing that though!

[MattD]

Originally Posted by akak1997

Thanks for replies guys! I can't wait be able to drive smoothly and fully enjoy this car but I know everyone has to go thru this, but some, like me, just takes longer... lol

I've been practicing the no gas trick, but when I put more gas once the car starts to creep (maybe I've put too much or not enough gas) the car jerks. I never stall as a result of that, just kinda lame :P
I think I might not be letting out of the clutch in a Continuous move, could that be it?

Does the car jerk in the sense that it feels like it's going to stall though, or more because you've given it too much gas?

You'll get to a point where there'll be an element of muscle memory, and your left foot will "remember" roughly where the bite of the clutch is.

One thing I'd recommend is always wearing the same pair of shoes whilst you're learning to do this, preferably with a pretty thin sole so you can get a better feel for the positioning of the pedals

[Severious]

Ok, try this, first thing...turn off the radio if its on...not down...OFF. Phone too, your going to want to hear the engine.

Understand, each car is different, so the 'continuous move' might be the problem...

What you want to do is just slowly and smoothly release the clutch until you start to feel the grip point, its where the clutch just starts to engage.(If you have the radio off you should be able too hear the engine start too strain a little.) When you hit that point you should just start to feel the car wanting to move forward. At that point STOP MOVING YOUR FOOT! For at least a few sec, you should start moving very slowly, maybe only a few inches, but moving. If you haven't moved, you haven't hit the grip point.

Now's when it starts to get tricky, you want to add gas to keep the engine from stalling, but not so much that you jerk the clutch around. As you ever so slowly start to move your foot out again, continuous motion isn't what your going for, what your going for is smooth, slow, and controlled release of the clutch while adding gas smoothly, slowly, and controlled...

Unfortunately, everything I have just written is probably for nothing because driving a stick is in many ways like learning to walk, or ride a bike, there is no step by step because it is truly a balancing act. The only thing that's going to teach you how to drive a manual is practice, practice, practice...

Now what might help you is if you don't understand whats going on inside your transmission at a basic level, you NEED too. I don't know how much you know so. Start here.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/clutch.htm

then merry that to this page...

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/transmission.htm

Take your time, take you car out to a local shopping center/mall/department store parking lot after closing and just spend an hour or so practicing your take-off, driving a few yards, then coming back to a stop and repeat, repeat, repeat...

[JB135i]

I disagree with just letting the clutch out without giving it any gas at all. It canbe hard on the car (the jerking issue) and it teaches you very little about how to get the car going properly.

There is no magic RPM number to let the clutch go, nor is there a magic release/pressure rate for the clutch and the gas pedal. It's very much dependent on the terrain (hills), road type, skill level and what type of performance you are going for. Each car of the same model will even be slightly different.

You want to be "somewhere" in between letting off the clutch with no gas and side stepping the clutch with the RPM's near the redline. Yes, it can vary that much.

My best advice, if at all possible, is for you to get in YOUR car with someone who knows how to drive a manual properly and let them drive. I don't necessarily mean, high performance properly, just a good competent driver that can demonstrate what the car should feel, sound and act like when things are done right. And wrong for that matter, within the boundries of not damaging the car of course.

I have taught many people how to drive a manual and they all have been different in learning styles and in different cars. But with only one exception, they had the most progress after being shown, along with explanations what it looked and felt like when done properly.

The one exception was when I taught a person by voice only. It was the time I had to teach my buddy to drive a manual (the only car available) because he had to take me to the emergency room for a moderately severe right-hand injury. He never killed it and we got there safely... Ever notice how truly stupid teenage males are?

Try the local BMW car club, friends, relatives, heck even your dealer will likely have a good driver or two there. The local SCCA chapter will likely have instructors. There are many good sources for drivers. The vendor section here on the board has many folks in your area. Offer to buy them a beer AFTER the lesson(s) and they may help. And they would likely be excellent drivers.

Get some help and then go have fun!!!

[dixon1763]

Originally Posted by mistermojorizin

also, don't look at the tach. easy in the 1 cause the wheel blocks it out of site. this will speed up the learning process. you wanna learn the feel.

Don't use the tach for starting. Do it by feel.

You won't hurt anything!

If want good instruction, go to a driving school like Skip Barber or Russell.

Enjoy your new car!

[MattD]

Originally Posted by dixon1763

Don't use the tach for starting. Do it by feel.

You won't hurt anything!

If want good instruction, go to a driving school like Skip Barber or Russell.

Enjoy your new car!

Agree, do it by feel and also by using your ears.

Unless you're a bit of a wanker i.e. you like the attention of people staring at you as you rev the nuts off your car, it won't take long for the embarrassment of revving to 6000rpm but still taking off very slowly (or constantly stalling through too few revs if you go the other way through fear of the above) to get you doing it right every time

[griptruk]

Originally Posted by jksgoh

oh you mean riding the clutch without any gas? well then ye you can slowly move forward (or back) like that.
thought you meant fully releasing the clutch with no gas lol

no sir, he DOES mean fully releasing the clutch, with NO GAS, you will feel the point at which the car starts to move, and the car will go, for sure. Once it's moving, you can fully release it and continue moving. I've been teaching people that way for a few years now. It lets you focus only on clutch feel and not on this method of trying to bring the clutch up at the same rate as you push in the gas.

to the OP, go to an empty parking lot and try this. It won't damage the car, and it is a great way to learn, seriously. I'm really glad someone beat me to this because I strongly believe in it.

-Jer