Car and Driver - May '08

[edge350]

I'm starting a thread using a new post to an old thread (sorry), but I'm doing it for a reason. The new Car and Driver review is fairly irritating. Here's what roadburn had to say about it, then the link and my comments below.

Originally Posted by roadburn

It's a fairly crappy review, working too hard to be cute, full of references to "mine's smaller than yours" at the stoplight, etc. Nitpicky on price & other things.

I have to agree with roadburn's description. Here's a link to the article:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/..._test/(page)/1

I don't understand how you could write this paragraph:

Words you almost never hear at the stoplight: “Hey, mine is smaller than yours!” The 135i may have to endure some size snobbery, but only until the green light. The last E46 M3 we tested [September 2005] hit 60 mph in 4.8 seconds. The 135i does it in 4.7. That $48,995 M3 chewed through the quarter-mile in 13.3 seconds at 108 mph. This 135i does it in 13.3 seconds at 106 mph, also about identical to the M3’s then-competitors, the Audi RS 4 and Mercedes-Benz C55 AMG.

Then proceed to complain about this:

Even so, the 135i may struggle at its price. Presented with the numbers, most buyers, we expect, will step up to a 3-series, perhaps by trading away the turbo engine and associated extras. A mere $400 separates the base 135i from the slightly dearer 328i coupe with its gorgeous bod. The 135i may drive with the grace of larger cars, but to pass up that deal, you’ll have to be one of the few who don’t fear downsizing.

Doesn't he answer his own question? It comes down to performance! Look at the cars you're comparing the 135i to in the first paragraph!
It's sloppy for a car magazine to fixate on PRICE when the driving experience between 135i and a 328i is SO completely different.
If they really wanted to provide a thoughtful analysis, they would compare the dynamics between the 135i and 335i.

[stefan]

Reviews like that in C&D are the reason I have started reading R&T a lot more these days.

[C_Topher]

The title of the article is pretty good: "Sawed off Shotgun". Great pics of what I believe is Monaco Blue. The numbers are great and they are very positive about the driving experience but are critical of size and price.

[imported_saturn]

The thing we're all going to have to get used to is that many, many people think of BMW cars as status symbols. The fact that they're model designations are given by numbers rather than names just perpetuates the myth that 1 series < 3 series < 5 series < 7 series. Even BMW regards the 1 and 3 series as "brand loyalty starters".

I have read it over and over again when discussions about the new 135i come up where people say "for that price you might as well bump up to the 3 series". It's gotten to the point where I tend to not even respond anymore. This journalist is just another in a very long line of people that base too much on perception and rumors.

So, to all those people out there I'll say it once, for the record. I do not want a 3 series. If I could get a 3 series for the same price as a 1 series I would not do it. Not even close. It's just not the car I want. And while we're at it just because car A has a few better stats than car B doesn't mean I'll automatically get car A. If it isn't painfully obvious to you that every aspect of life is more complicated than that you need to hurl yourself off the nearest bridge.

Ok, I'm done now. I'll go take my Ritalin.

[Yearofthe1]

Originally Posted by saturn

The thing we're all going to have to get used to is that many, many people think of BMW cars as status symbols. The fact that they're model designations are given by numbers rather than names just perpetuates the myth that 1 series < 3 series < 5 series < 7 series. Even BMW regards the 1 and 3 series as "brand loyalty starters".

I have read it over and over again when discussions about the new 135i come up where people say "for that price you might as well bump up to the 3 series". It's gotten to the point where I tend to not even respond anymore. This journalist is just another in a very long line of people that base too much on perception and rumors.

So, to all those people out there I'll say it once, for the record. I do not want a 3 series. If I could get a 3 series for the same price as a 1 series I would not do it. Not even close. It's just not the car I want. And while we're at it just because car A has a few better stats than car B doesn't mean I'll automatically get car A. If it isn't painfully obvious to you that every aspect of life is more complicated than that you need to hurl yourself off the nearest bridge.

and for that matter, I don't even want an E90 M3!! They could sell the 135i for the same price as a 335i, and I wouldn't think twice, the 1er would be in the garage! (don't tell BMW i said that)

[imported_saturn]

Ok, brain just kicked in. The fact that this guy says "mere $400 separates the base 135i from the slightly dearer 328i coupe with its gorgeous bod" just goes to show you where this guy's mind is. He's willing to drop several options and 70 hp to get a "gorgeous bod".

If you need the convenience of a big trunk and/or back seat, fine. Not all of us have been neutered and are looking for something a bit more on the sporty side. Quite an enthusiast you got working for you, C&D.

[roadburn]

It's just like dating: For the same price of a movie and dinner, you could have a girl who weighs 20 percent more. Who wouldn't jump at the chance?

[Spook]

I thought hard about a 335i.. great car. Then decided that for the size and money I would rather have an Infiniti G37. What I really wanted the more sporty Subaru WRX (and I don't mind hatchbacks) but couldn't take the quality drop. Then they came out with the 135 and it's the perfect balance of enthusiast driving and daily driver. It's too bad that many of the reviewers don't get that, but oh well. 10,000 of us this year certainly will.

-Spook

[edge350]

Originally Posted by roadburn

It's just like dating: For the same price of a movie and dinner, you could have a girl who weighs 20 percent more. Who wouldn't jump at the chance?

[mrgoochio]

What I gather from this article, specifically edge350's arguments towards it, are that even if considering the 135i's strict competition, BMW is still BMW's own main/lead competitor. BMW really did do a great job on the 1.

[4wheelcycle]

I just don't get the endless comments that the 135i costs almost as much as the 335i - since when is $6,000 not real money? My 135i with the sport package, leather, and metallic paint priced out at $38,600. A comparably equipped 335i prices out at $44,600, with no M steering wheel or gear shift.

In any event, neither I nor anyone else is buying the 135i purely for the cost savings. I am coming from a Honda S2000. Before I knew about the One I had already decided if I was going for a "full size" car I would choose the new Honda V6 6M Accord over the 335i or the new Audi A5, not only because of the money but because I have a great Honda dealer right nearby and the BMW and Audi dealers are an hour and a half away.

I never felt really good about heading for the Accord, 335i or A5 because I knew they would all feel a lot bigger to me than the S2000. I thought about the A3, R32, STI and MazdaSpeed3, but they all seemed like too expensive versions of cars that were not really in the same league as the other cars I was considering.

Then I heard about the 135i and I immediately realized it met all my "needs" - a shorter wheelbase, quick turning car with a "famous" engine that pulled hard at low RPM, top notch suspension and 6M transmission, and a premium BMW cockpit with M touches. I immediately switched my aim from the V6 Accord to the 135i and made my order in January at straight list price, site unseen.

The car sits in my garage as we speak (or read) and it is everything I hoped for.

[zbladejr]

Well, I agree with what every serious enthusiast is writing here. We are all collectively correct. My 135i should arrive by mid-June. There's no other car <$40K that I would want more (and like all of you, I did way more research than 99% of new car buyers).

Now then, what about this crackers C&D guy? Well, here's the thing. He may not be wrong. The jokes in C&D are part of their style, and I personally don't care. The pictures are okay in that story (got it last night, read cover to cover), but they represent the performance potential very well. And his opinion is that the car will not sell as well as us enthusiast may believe.

Why would he say that? Most people buying a BMW do not need the performance of the 135i; many do not want it (shock!). So, what happens if you don't need/want 300 lb-ft torque at 1,500 RPM (say that 10 times and try not to smile). You go for beauty, space and luxury. And, arguably, the 3 series coupe is both classically more beautiful and at the same time has more practical space.

So then we need to step back a bit and ask ourselves whether our own preferrences don't cloud the reality of the mass car market. Is it possible that a C&D editor/writer may be a bit more objective when considering a car's total package/price/value for the mass market? I say it's possible.

Final thought. The fewer 135i's non-enthusiasts buy the better. This car will be (in my opinion) an icon. The re-discovery of fun without overkill. I hope that most 'trade-up' to the practicality of the 3-series!

[atr_hugo]

zbladejr - nice analysis, you hit on something that C&D has been from the inception, irreverent.

[aus_buster]

+1

[Tom K.]

Originally Posted by 4wheelcycle

I just don't get the endless comments that the 135i costs almost as much as the 3351 - since when is $6,000 not real money?

Exactly. Comparing the 135i to the 328i is apples & oranges - the 128i is $5,900 less than the 328i.

As I wanted a drop top and don't need the 135i's power, my comparison was between the 128i and 328i cabrios. Since the 128i is 300 lbs. lighter and $10,000 cheaper, I 'll be taking delivery of a cashmere silver 128i cabrio (hopefully) in about 6 weeks.

I knew there was a reason I've subscribed to R&T but not C&D for many years!

Tom

[Yoot1]

The feeling I get from reading the review is that Tony Quiroga and Larry Webster care more about style and practicality than driving experience. They admit such in the Counterpoint side bar. They are not what I would call driving enthusiasts.

I've read Car and Driver for years. I worked for a company for that shared the same building in Ann Arbor with Car and Driver. They are nice folks, but write to sell magazines. It's a business that caters to the everyday car person, not real enthusiasts. Road and Track is better for that.

[MastaMind]

Personally, I hope that most of the people that care about style and luxury do step up to the 335. Yes, the 335 does look better to most people, but the driving experience is very different, IMHO.

The 335 felt very big and very long. I just wasn't comfortable driving spiritedly in a full size car. Conversely, I was immediately at home in the 135.

Let's keep the 135 for the enthusiasts. Those that know, know.

[raventattoo]

I drove a 335ic (6MT) a few weeks before the 1 was released. My test drive of the 3 was preceded by a G37 a week before. I've said it before in these forums--no comparison between these 2 cars. I put my order in for my 135i after my test drive. Mostly because the 3 just seemed a little bigger than what I wanted and not to mention a price difference of around 6-7K!
Then my dealer called me to come drive the first 135i they got in. As much as I LOVED the 335, the 135 is just AMAZING! And this was an automatic. Can't wait to drive my 6speed. If the 2 cars were priced the same, I would choose the 135i. I love everything about it. I love the looks, the size, the cockpit, driving position and the way the car handles.
People like most of us here, who see what an amazing value it is to get a driver's car at this price, will not be 'stepping up' to a 328.

[buckwheat986]

Originally Posted by zbladejr

Well, I agree with what every serious enthusiast is writing here. We are all collectively correct. My 135i should arrive by mid-June. There's no other car <$40K that I would want more (and like all of you, I did way more research than 99% of new car buyers).

Now then, what about this crackers C&D guy? Well, here's the thing. He may not be wrong. The jokes in C&D are part of their style, and I personally don't care. The pictures are okay in that story (got it last night, read cover to cover), but they represent the performance potential very well. And his opinion is that the car will not sell as well as us enthusiast may believe.

Why would he say that? Most people buying a BMW do not need the performance of the 135i; many do not want it (shock!). So, what happens if you don't need/want 300 lb-ft torque at 1,500 RPM (say that 10 times and try not to smile). You go for beauty, space and luxury. And, arguably, the 3 series coupe is both classically more beautiful and at the same time has more practical space.

So then we need to step back a bit and ask ourselves whether our own preferrences don't cloud the reality of the mass car market. Is it possible that a C&D editor/writer may be a bit more objective when considering a car's total package/price/value for the mass market? I say it's possible.

Final thought. The fewer 135i's non-enthusiasts buy the better. This car will be (in my opinion) an icon. The re-discovery of fun without overkill. I hope that most 'trade-up' to the practicality of the 3-series!

spot on...thanks

[imported_sbw]

I was surprised to find the 135i on the cover of Car And Driver. :thumbup:

I love Car And Driver because — being one of the world's biggest car mags — it risks both automaker and reader backlash with sometimes very critical and controversial comments. The Backfires letters section is awesome, definitely the liveliest few pages of any magazine. I'm often surprised that C/D prints some of the trivial letters it receives, with the editor responding and belittling the letter writers. Classic.

Too many car magazines, like Road & Track, offer just fluff and don't take strong positions on anything. Might as well just read automaker brochures.

Car And Driver tells it how it is. The Simon Cowell of car mags. And often puts vehicles into a social context, making what it has to say even more relevant.

[m3bs]

This is the letter to the C&D editors I just sent:

I believe Aaron Robinson completely missed the point about the 135i in his report. The 335i is an extremely capable sports sedan, and was high on my short list until I drove the 135i. His obsession with the size and cost issues relative to the 335i is suggestive of some long ago, but not quite forgotten, "Mine's bigger" locker room incident. The 135i begs to be driven in a way no car has since my '83 GTI, and that includes numerous offerings from VW, BMW and Porsche which have filled my garage in the years since. No, it isn't for everyone. If a back seat is important to you, the 335i is certainly the more appropriate choice. But until the name of the magazine is changed to "Car and FamilyMan", let us make that decision for ourselves. The market will decide if the price and size are appropriate.

[bimmerfile]

"To my eyes, bulldogs aren’t cute." C&D



Now, them's fightin words...