Suspension advice, please.

[VortexTornado]

Apart from the optical, like a splitter, boot lip, etc. the only mod I have is the MP HAS on stock EDC dampers.



Recent upgrade:

1. I recently had the Millway camber plates installed, set at -3 degrees in the front, and -2 degrees in the rear.

1. New wheels: Apex EC7 19", 10" front, 11" rear

1. New tires: Nankang AR-1 275/35R19 front, 305/30R19 rear

As always when you upgrade something you find the next weak spot, which in my case is the suspension, well apart from the driver
I have the EDC set to stiffest, Sport+, but the suspension still feels too soft.
I guess it depends both on the MP HAS springs and the stock EDC dampers.

So the question is, what should I have instead?
Coming from Sweden, the natural choice would be the Swedish Öhlins Road & Track kit. Is anyone running that kit? What else is everyone running? What is this group's collective experience on suspension for the F80 and track use?
TIA

[SYT_Shadow]

The stock suspension is pretty capable, but a step up would be a KW CS 2Way or a Ohlins R&T. You do lose the EDC functionality and it will be more uncomfortable, but will perform better at the track.

The KW/MP HAS is basically a lowering kit and does a negligible difference in terms of handling

We run MCS 3WR on the cars, although the GTSs are currently on the KW CS 3W stock suspension waiting for the GTMore kit later on

[TR930]

Tractive Road and track. True coilovers with EDC. Touring version if just street car.

[Suds]

I have 2 2019 M cars.
My 2019 M4 comp with EDC and M performance package.
My 2019 M2 comp with a bunch of aftermarket stuff done.

From my experience, the M4 EDC adjustability is good for daily driving.
If you want to get serious, you have to have a 2 or 3 way adjustable shock system.

[Montaver]

Ohlins R&T are excellent dampers, I have had two sets on different cars (e9x, f8x). Not as good as a 3WR MCS setup for example (and no where near as expensive), but very close to something like an MCS 2WNR which I have also had. Price to performance and quality R&T are a very compelling proposition, they will be a couple of thousand less than a 1WNR damper and just as good. MCS are comparable to something like JRZ which is more well known in Europe.

The R&T kit for the e9x M3 is a honey, a little soft for serious track work given the cars weight but beautifully damped and a massive upgrade from stock. However the F8x kit I would caution is not good out of the box at all, its like they had a drunken intern do the setup. The rear is over sprung and under damped, which means it's very busy over any type of undulating/broken surface to the detriment of grip. To the point where driving down any type of backroad (or normal road course here in the US which isn't glassy smooth) at pace the stock suspension would be faster and inspire more confidence. From memory the stock Ohlins F8x rates are around 550/1100, get the rears re-valved to for 550/900 and it will be in a much better place. Not exactly sure what that is in N/mm but something like 90/170. You have to revalve the rears as they are already at the end of their range which is also part of the problem. These cars have a very stiff chassis to begin with so having good suspension compliance makes a big difference. Barry at 3DM motorsport can help, or sounds like if your in Sweden Ohlins can do you a custom kit themselves.

[markw10702]

If you are willing to give up the electronic adjustment, I'd strongly suggest MCS especially if you are going to track the car. The principals from MCS came from JRZ (the "J" in JRZ is Jerome Van Gool) and also had a hand in establishing Moton. I'd skip over the JRZ product and go directly to the MCS product as it is a much-improved version of any of the JRZ offerings.

MCS has some proprietary design features you will not find in any other brand. Some of these features (i.e. blow-off valves) help improve the damper's performance under compression, improving grip and road manners. This gives you the ability to run stiffer springs and higher damper settings without giving up significant ride quality when compared to other brands.

MCS 1WNR are $2950 less springs (I'd recommend Swift), hardware, camber plates (which you already have) and of course labor (setup, corner balance, alignment).

MCS 2WNR are $3800 and of course have both compression and rebound adjustability.

I believe these are the best dampers for the money, especially for a dual-purpose car. Nothing else is going to come close. The Ohlins are a nice road-based damper but are compromised on the track. You would need to step up to their TTX dampers to come close to the performance of MCS.

https://www.motioncontrolsuspension.com/

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by markw10702

If you are willing to give up the electronic adjustment, I'd strongly suggest MCS especially if you are going to track the car. The principals from MCS came from JRZ (the "J" in JRZ is Jerome Van Gool) and also had a hand in establishing Moton. I'd skip over the JRZ product and go directly to the MCS product as it is a much-improved version of any of the JRZ offerings.

MCS has some proprietary design features you will not find in any other brand. Some of these features (i.e. blow-off valves) help improve the damper's performance under compression, improving grip and road manners. This gives you the ability to run stiffer springs and higher damper settings without giving up significant ride quality when compared to other brands.

MCS 1WNR are $2950 less springs (I'd recommend Swift), hardware, camber plates (which you already have) and of course labor (setup, corner balance, alignment).

MCS 2WNR are $3800 and of course have both compression and rebound adjustability.

I believe these are the best dampers for the money, especially for a dual-purpose car. Nothing else is going to come close. The Ohlins are a nice road-based damper but are compromised on the track. You would need to step up to their TTX dampers to come close to the performance of MCS.

https://www.motioncontrolsuspension.com/

I've had JRZ in one E9X while the other had MCS, huge difference. Also, having a set of MCS from 2017 with no rebuilds or clanking/leaking is a huge plus in terms of longevity

Our cars either stay stock of get MCS now.

[BMWJEFFREY]

I have current is AST 5200 2 way. It's a good coilover, I might sell mine in December if you're interested in it!

[NYG]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

The KW/MP HAS is basically a lowering kit and does a negligible difference in terms of handling

This.

I regretted investing into MP HAS over a real track suspension.

[Suds]

I put two different sets of lowering springs on my 2015 M4 and had the EDC reprogrammed to the CS settings. Also a bunch of other suspension mods. The car looked really good but never drove correct.
I left my 2019 M4 stock other than camber plates for the track, they are now off and back to stock top hats.
With 2019 M2 I went with adjustable height and damping and a bunch of other mods, really the way to go for a track oriented car.

Looking back I never knew how deep I would go into this sport, so full Monty, almost.

Originally Posted by VortexTornado

Apart from the optical, like a splitter, boot lip, etc. the only mod I have is the MP HAS on stock EDC dampers

[shaddy]

You've got the right idea looking at Ohlins! I'd also consider MCS/Nitron. I'm on Nitron R1s and absolutely love them. Car is dual purpose but mostly driven to track these days. R1s would be similar to MCS 1 way and honestly unless you have a suspension guru with you 2/3way are probably not getting set properly on track IMO. Just depends how deep you want to get in this.

One thing to note with Ohlins is you will have a hard time running a square 18x10.5 setup if that's something you want to explore for track use. Whereas MCS/JRZ/Nitron/KW CS all use a linear spring that provide better inner clearance.

[Clevocapri]

[QUOTE=shaddy;29104567]You've got the right idea looking at Ohlins! I'd also consider MCS/Nitron. I'm on Nitron R1s and absolutely love them. Car is dual purpose but mostly driven to track these days. R1s would be similar to MCS 1 way and honestly unless you have a suspension guru with you 2/3way are probably not getting set properly on track IMO. Just depends how deep you want to get in this.

How do the Nitron's go with regards to rebuilding? Ive read they require a rebuild after 20,000km?

Sorry for thread hijack! Might be interesting for OP too!

[shaddy]

Originally Posted by Clevocapri

How do the Nitron's go with regards to rebuilding? Ive read they require a rebuild after 20,000km?

Sorry for thread hijack! Might be interesting for OP too!

I got guidance from Inertia Labs (who is an NA vendor for Nitron and helped spec the coils) that the 20K KM rebuild interval is more specific to race teams that are usually following the 20 hour rebuild interval. This is to maintain optimal performance.

For street use/HPDE you can easily go double with the Nitrons and follow similar intervals to other such as MCS/JRZ/Ohlin etc. There's nothing about Nitrons that are more fragile than other brands. They're not that big in NA yet, but are becoming more common in TX! Definitely a competitive option in the price range for track use.

[Clevocapri]

Thanks for the info mate!

[5thscaleracer]

FWIW...

2018 M3 CS Stock Suspension arms
GC Camber plates
SPL Sway Bar Links F/R
SPL rear toe arms

GC HAS:
Originally equipped with GC's version of HAS kit with weight jackers in the back. Spring rates 500F/700R Eibach ERS springs with helpers.
I opted for GC because of my existing 2.5" Eibach ERS spring collection. Other HAS style kits do not allow you to change spring rates.

For street use this setup was sharp, the springs were stiffer than stock and just made every bump a little crisp. The ride didn't really change much but the response was amazing. Body roll was reduced by 50% if not more. For street use it was better than lowering springs, for track it held its own. The limit is when you run 100TW tires or semi-slicks the stock EDC shocks can't hang.

MCS 2WNR
I recently upgraded to MCS 2WNR 800/700 spring rate setup. This suspension is STIFF!!! track setup for sure it's overkill for street use even on the softest shock setting.

On the track the MCS suspension is no joke 100X better than what i had before. But on the street it's not a practical setup.

So depending on what you are after, the KW lineup (non Club Sport), Bilstein (non club sport), TC Klein, Ohlins R&T are ideal for dual purpose street and some track.

MCS, JRZ, Ohlins TTX basically if it's a 5K+ suspension setup it's not ideal for the street.

Personally I thought the 2WNR could be tamed for street use. The truth is it's 95% track 5% street. The shorter shocks on all for corners and reduced stroke makes the ride very direct and precise.

Hope this helps..

[5thscaleracer]

Originally Posted by NYG

This.

I regretted investing into MP HAS over a real track suspension.

MP HAS and KW HAS springs are too soft... the GC HAS version at least allows you to bridge the gap a little since you get to choose spring rates.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by 5thscaleracer

MP HAS and KW HAS springs are too soft... the GC HAS version at least allows you to bridge the gap a little since you get to choose spring rates.

Absolutely. Way too soft - getting the car balanced was so difficult (but fun)

[markw10702]

Originally Posted by 5thscaleracer

MCS 2WNR
I recently upgraded to MCS 2WNR 800/700 spring rate setup. This suspension is STIFF!!! track setup for sure it's overkill for street use even on the softest shock setting.

On the track the MCS suspension is no joke 100X better than what i had before. But on the street it's not a practical setup.

The MCS suspension is stiff because your spring rates are too high for the street. Based on your specs it looks like you have the coil-over rear damper (good choice for the track) which I probably would not have chosen if my car is primarily street driven.

I would not go higher than 575 lbs in the front and the equivalent of 800 lbs in the rear. With a coil-over rear damper I am not sure where you would be as far as rear spring rate goes (but definitely something less than 800 lbs). The M4 GTS spring rates (which some say is too stiff for the street) are 400 lbs/in front and 685 lbs/in rear so that gives you some reference (BTW - The GTS rear is the standard divorced spring configuration).

Don't ditch those MCS dampers, just revise the spring rates and you will be golden. MCS is far, far superior to anything you have listed as an alternative - street or track.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by markw10702

The MCS suspension is stiff because your spring rates are too high for the street. Based on your specs it looks like you have the coil-over rear damper (good choice for the track) which I probably would not have chosen if my car is primarily street driven.

I would not go higher than 575 lbs in the front and the equivalent of 800 lbs in the rear. With a coil-over rear damper I am not sure where you would be as far as rear spring rate goes (but definitely something less than 800 lbs). The M4 GTS spring rates (which some say is too stiff for the street) are 400 lbs/in front and 685 lbs/in rear so that gives you some reference (BTW - The GTS rear is the standard divorced spring configuration).

Don't ditch those MCS dampers, just revise the spring rates and you will be golden. MCS is far, far superior to anything you have listed as an alternative - street or track.

Agreed. 800 front is a 100% track setup. If street driving the car you are better off with 700 front / 1000 rear divorced rate equivalent

In any case, I street drive 800/1200 equivalent MCS and with high and low speed compression at 0 it's perfectly fine.

[5thscaleracer]

Originally Posted by markw10702

The MCS suspension is stiff because your spring rates are too high for the street. Based on your specs it looks like you have the coil-over rear damper (good choice for the track) which I probably would not have chosen if my car is primarily street driven.

I would not go higher than 575 lbs in the front and the equivalent of 800 lbs in the rear. With a coil-over rear damper I am not sure where you would be as far as rear spring rate goes (but definitely something less than 800 lbs). The M4 GTS spring rates (which some say is too stiff for the street) are 400 lbs/in front and 685 lbs/in rear so that gives you some reference (BTW - The GTS rear is the standard divorced spring configuration).

Don't ditch those MCS dampers, just revise the spring rates and you will be golden. MCS is far, far superior to anything you have listed as an alternative - street or track.

so my car is 90% track 10% street now. This is the first time i have used MCS suspension so i am slowly getting to know how they feel in comparison to Intrax NL on other applications.

I did more tweaks to compression and rebound settings i found a happy place with the 800/700 combo so i am all good as far as ride comfort goes. Now i am trying to sort something else which is probably mechanical suspension setup.

Overall it's been a good experience getting to know the MCS kit and the car.

Sorry OP for