Scared to buy X5M...is it a maintenance nightmare?

[M3jamaica]

I'm about to buy a 2012 x5M with 49k miles. Well serviced and injectors already upgraded. But i keep reading about lots of issues, hoses,vacuums, lines, leaks....I'm getting confused, last thing I want is to buy a car that goes on limp mode every 2 weeks for different problems. Can someone give me a proper list of every part i need to make sure this thing is reliable please? I work on it myself with a mechanic friend, so i just need to buy all those commonly failing parts like hoses, vacuum lines, PCV. I read so many threads my head explode. Please help so i can finally get this machine....

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by M3jamaica

I'm about to buy a 2012 x5M with 49k miles. Well serviced and injectors already upgraded. But i keep reading about lots of issues, hoses,vacuums, lines, leaks....I'm getting confused, last thing I want is to buy a car that goes on limp mode every 2 weeks for different problems. Can someone give me a proper list of every part i need to make sure this thing is reliable please? I work on it myself with a mechanic friend, so i just need to buy all those commonly failing parts like hoses, vacuum lines, PCV. I read so many threads my head explode. Please help so i can finally get this machine....

I am closing in on 180K miles on my 50i, which uses the same engine as the M minus the forged pistons and turbo/intake upgrades. I've had it modded and tuned to M power levels for 70K of those miles. Key to long life with this engine IMHO is using Liqui Moly 5-40 Leichtlauf High Tech oil plus 2 cans of the Mos2 additive and changing your oil every 5k miles.

Preventative Maintence you should do now, not so much of the miles but because of the age:

Replace all of your plugs and coils. Upgrade to NGK if you plan on tuning, otherwise get the OEM Bosch plugs and save the M tax. Eldor brand coils are the best for our platform.

Replace the Head to Head coolant line and upgrade the plastic Y junction to metal.

Replace the Plastic T's in the turbo coolant lines with Metal (Some M's have metal already)

Replace all of your CCV lines, especially lines that connect to your lower intakes.

Inspect all of your vacuum lines, including the ones that run back to the muffler flaps. If any of them appear to be drying out, replace them all with silicone lines.

Change your transmission, rear diff, front diff, and transfer case oils. Even though you have low mileage, the oil is a decade old and should be changed (assuming previous owner has not touched.

Change your Engine Coolant and Intercooler coolant if it has not been done yet. Note that there are special bleed procedures on both explained in BMW TIS

Inspect Power steering fluid and change if needed.


Realoem.com is the best place to look up parts and their oem Equivalents.

If you don't have BMW TIS, PM one of us here to get setup. You will need this if you plan on doing the work yourself.

Download and install ISTA or buy prebuilt laptop off ebay and get a D-CAN cable. Protools is second choice and Foxwell NT510 or higher is 3rd choice. You will need one of these to do basic service functions. Highly recommend ISTA or Protools. ISTA is pain in ass to install and use but most powerful and is full diagnostic suite for the E70.

You Should be good until around 100-120k+. Then expect increased oil usage and need to do valve stem seals.

[M3jamaica]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

I am closing in on 180K miles on my 50i, which uses the same engine as the M minus the forged pistons and turbo/intake upgrades. I've had it modded and tuned to M power levels for 70K of those miles. Key to long life with this engine IMHO is using Liqui Moly 5-40 Leichtlauf High Tech oil plus 2 cans of the Mos2 additive and changing your oil every 5k miles.

Preventative Maintence you should do now, not so much of the miles but because of the age:

Replace all of your plugs and coils. Upgrade to NGK if you plan on tuning, otherwise get the OEM Bosch plugs and save the M tax. Eldor brand coils are the best for our platform.

Replace the Head to Head coolant line and upgrade the plastic Y junction to metal.

Replace the Plastic T's in the turbo coolant lines with Metal (Some M's have metal already)

Replace all of your CCV lines, especially lines that connect to your lower intakes.

Inspect all of your vacuum lines, including the ones that run back to the muffler flaps. If any of them appear to be drying out, replace them all with silicone lines.

Change your transmission, rear diff, front diff, and transfer case oils. Even though you have low mileage, the oil is a decade old and should be changed (assuming previous owner has not touched.

Change your Engine Coolant and Intercooler coolant if it has not been done yet. Note that there are special bleed procedures on both explained in BMW TIS

Inspect Power steering fluid and change if needed.


Realoem.com is the best place to look up parts and their oem Equivalents.

If you don't have BMW TIS, PM one of us here to get setup. You will need this if you plan on doing the work yourself.

Download and install ISTA or buy prebuilt laptop off ebay and get a D-CAN cable. Protools is second choice and Foxwell NT510 or higher is 3rd choice. You will need one of these to do basic service functions. Highly recommend ISTA or Protools. ISTA is pain in ass to install and use but most powerful and is full diagnostic suite for the E70.

You Should be good until around 100-120k+. Then expect increased oil usage and need to do valve stem seals.

Thank you sooooo much. This info is gold for me. I really appreciate u took ur time to help me out. I'm gonna make a list of parts and order everything at ones.

[Dawgz]

Only thing to add ontop what SophisticatedRedNeck mentioned is to install a lower temp thermostat. I know of two units that can be used, the Hamburg 95C or the N63intake.com 's 84C. I'm using the latter.

It's a really good upgrade to lower overall temps under the hood, keeps your turbos cooler, it will lower your oil temps also. Lower oil temps vs what the stock system runs it as will also degrade your oil much less than what it currently does with the stock thermostat.

[mitch808]

Not M specific, but BMW in general, hardparts are expensive.

A new transfer case was $4k from BMW, I bought a reman for $1.9k. aprox 115k miles on it before it failed.

My front diff is leaking from somewhere.

I had to replace the oilpan gasket, that is no small job, over $1k in parts and labor.

Just keep in mind yes there are maintenance items, and replacing of "soft," parts like hoses and plastic bits. But getting in age the hardparts... are expensive and the labor to go with many of them.

[Thecastle]

I’m averaging $450 a month in repairs out of pocket for my x5m and I have an extended warranty. The rest was covered by the warranty. I drive about 7k miles a year and it’s not my daily. 1st warranty covered 30k in repairs. 2nd about 6k.

Mine has needed a bit of work over the last 5+ years of ownership
Both valve cover gaskets and passenger side 2x
Alternator
Rear air bags
Engine partition 2x
Turbo coolant lines
Turbo oil lines 2x
Turbo oil return block
Rear main seal 2x common problem
Filtered air ducts 2x
Entire pcv system 2x
Upper and lower oil pans
Aux turbo coolant pump
Coolant res
Pneumatic pressure converters
All map sensors
Diverter valves
Etml pump 2x
All vacuum lines (2k job)
Battery 2x
Ac evaporator core (removed entire dash)
Power steering pump
New engine computer
New rear shocks at 60k miles could be maintenance
Replaced exhaust change over valve
Front tension struts blown bushing
Front lower control arms



I’m sure I’m missing a bunch, and a lot I did myself or it was covered by my extended warranty


Approximately 45k worth of work.

This doesn’t touch maintenance, just what I consider repairs.
Tons here, brakes are very expensive. I’ve been religious on oil changes, diff, xfer, tranny, power steering and coolant. I fix anything immediately that breaks.

So yes if you want to keep it in good shape, and are not a mechanic it’s an expensive machine to keep on the road.

I’ve spent 6k chasing my reduced engine power mode in 3 months, All new vacuum lines, new intake duct, between turbos and intercooler, new engine computer. Dealer and Indy to figure it out.

So it can be expensive but it’s not too much money if you love it. Also it’s a choice between depreciation and repairs. The s63 is more reliable than the n63 and a good choice.

[Movado750]

Do what ever Redneck says..

[S.W.G.]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

I’m averaging $450 a month in repairs out of pocket for my x5m and I have an extended warranty. The rest was covered by the warranty. I drive about 7k miles a year and it’s not my daily. 1st warranty covered 30k in repairs. 2nd about 6k.

Mine has needed a bit of work over the last 5+ years of ownership
Both valve cover gaskets and passenger side 2x
Alternator
Rear air bags
Engine partition 2x
Turbo coolant lines
Turbo oil lines 2x
Turbo oil return block
Rear main seal 2x common problem
Filtered air ducts 2x
Entire pcv system 2x
Upper and lower oil pans
Aux turbo coolant pump
Coolant res
Pneumatic pressure converters
All map sensors
Diverter valves
Etml pump 2x
All vacuum lines (2k job)
Battery 2x
Ac evaporator core (removed entire dash)
Power steering pump
New engine computer
New rear shocks at 60k miles could be maintenance
Replaced exhaust change over valve
Front tension struts blown bushing
Front lower control arms



I’m sure I’m missing a bunch, and a lot I did myself or it was covered by my extended warranty


Approximately 45k worth of work.

This doesn’t touch maintenance, just what I consider repairs.
Tons here, brakes are very expensive. I’ve been religious on oil changes, diff, xfer, tranny, power steering and coolant. I fix anything immediately that breaks.

So yes if you want to keep it in good shape, and are not a mechanic it’s an expensive machine to keep on the road.

I’ve spent 6k chasing my reduced engine power mode in 3 months, All new vacuum lines, new intake duct, between turbos and intercooler, new engine computer. Dealer and Indy to figure it out.

So it can be expensive but it’s not too much money if you love it. Also it’s a choice between depreciation and repairs. The s63 is more reliable than the n63 and a good choice.

This list reads like whoever owned it previously did zero maintenance whatsoever. I get the filters and plastic components but JFC? My car came with full records and religious maintenance and the only issue I've ever had is a leaky airbag and a cracked PVC line on top of the turbo heat shields, and thats 18 months of ownership, daily driven.

[Thecastle]

Originally Posted by S.W.G.

This list reads like whoever owned it previously did zero maintenance whatsoever. I get the filters and plastic components but JFC? My car came with full records and religious maintenance and the only issue I've ever had is a leaky airbag and a cracked PVC line on top of the turbo heat shields, and thats 18 months of ownership, daily driven.

You’d be incorrect on that assumption. Mine was a 1 owner car still under factory warranty with less than 40k miles when I bought it. Fully serviced at a bmw dealer, with no issues, and had all the records. It was owned by a doctor and never modded. I’ve owned my M for more than 5 years, and all of the list is repairs I’ve had done that I can remember there are more I’m sure. I’ve owned it long enough that some items have failed more than once. It didn’t start breaking down until I owned it for 8 months, with the alternator, oil return block seal, and filtered air ducts. Mine is occasionally driven, we are driving about 6k miles a year. It sits in enclosed storage when not used. However it’s mostly used now as a tow vehicle. It now has 70k miles.

I’ve changed the oil, every 5k miles, coolant every 2 years, diffs, xfer case, tans fluid, and power steering flushes. Batteries, tires, wiper blades and etc.

Done ceratec at each change, low temp thermostat at 45k miles, turbo blanket and etc. a lot of it is the climate. Bmws plastic turns to crap in hot weather climates.

Really not unusual any of these repairs for an x5m if you search. I’ve just owned mine a lot longer than most here.

[Colodano]

Mine is at 140K, and I will agree with S.R. for sure, and luckily I bought mine with low temp thermostats already in before 90k, but have gone through all of the pcv lines, the center one needs a better fix plus heat wrap, I still haven't found the best solution.

Castle also highlights a lot of big points, especially if you want it perfect. Say partitions, I bought the chinese ones and then heat taped them, not perfect but they work.
All of the cheap plastic, and super high heat, means stuff breaks and leaks. I work on mine so its not a big deal, and I can get parts fast so I dont need to stock them up, like you might. And guess what, I watch my oil, so a leak isnt a cause for a 5K gasket job for me, unless it's fast enough to need oil in under 1000 miles.

My suspension, I did sway bar links up front, rear bags had been done when i bought it, but other than a possible need for new tension struts or at least bushings up front, pretty solid.

In conclusion, if you do work yourself, and can get parts it's worth it, if you are paying maintenance to a shop, nope. These rigs are beasts that need an attentive and handy owner after the first 5/50k IMO.

[M3jamaica]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

I’m averaging $450 a month in repairs out of pocket for my x5m and I have an extended warranty. The rest was covered by the warranty. I drive about 7k miles a year and it’s not my daily. 1st warranty covered 30k in repairs. 2nd about 6k.

Mine has needed a bit of work over the last 5+ years of ownership
Both valve cover gaskets and passenger side 2x
Alternator
Rear air bags
Engine partition 2x
Turbo coolant lines
Turbo oil lines 2x
Turbo oil return block
Rear main seal 2x common problem
Filtered air ducts 2x
Entire pcv system 2x
Upper and lower oil pans
Aux turbo coolant pump
Coolant res
Pneumatic pressure converters
All map sensors
Diverter valves
Etml pump 2x
All vacuum lines (2k job)
Battery 2x
Ac evaporator core (removed entire dash)
Power steering pump
New engine computer
New rear shocks at 60k miles could be maintenance
Replaced exhaust change over valve
Front tension struts blown bushing
Front lower control arms



I’m sure I’m missing a bunch, and a lot I did myself or it was covered by my extended warranty


Approximately 45k worth of work.

This doesn’t touch maintenance, just what I consider repairs.
Tons here, brakes are very expensive. I’ve been religious on oil changes, diff, xfer, tranny, power steering and coolant. I fix anything immediately that breaks.

So yes if you want to keep it in good shape, and are not a mechanic it’s an expensive machine to keep on the road.

I’ve spent 6k chasing my reduced engine power mode in 3 months, All new vacuum lines, new intake duct, between turbos and intercooler, new engine computer. Dealer and Indy to figure it out.

So it can be expensive but it’s not too much money if you love it. Also it’s a choice between depreciation and repairs. The s63 is more reliable than the n63 and a good choice.

Things like this getting me very scared and away from it, as much as i love it i keep hearing horror stories like this, I'm not rich and i worked very hard to save the money for this, no warranty available here. I think of getting the jeep SRT8 instead

[M3jamaica]

Question...
Is the f85 x5M more reliable than the e70 ? I could buy an f85 instead, same mileage,about 45k, . I don't mind to spend the extra money of i don't get the headache of the problems and repairs. So considering mileage is the same on both, is it worth spending that much more money or even worth the f85 I'm gonna spend thousands on parts and problems same way?

[Thecastle]

Originally Posted by M3jamaica

Question...
Is the f85 x5M more reliable than the e70 ? I could buy an f85 instead, same mileage,about 45k, . I don't mind to spend the extra money of i don't get the headache of the problems and repairs. So considering mileage is the same on both, is it worth spending that much more money or even worth the f85 I'm gonna spend thousands on parts and problems same way?

Age is just as hard on cars as milage, and BMW plastics don't hold up well against hot climates.

I'm going to express an opinion that some will surely disagree with. I think the E70 was built during a low point in BMW reliability (mid-00's). I think G05/F15/F85 are more reliable based on my ownership experience of an F10 and my friends experience with theirs (small sample). BMW has really worked hard to improve the quality of their cars, and I think the G05 with the Gen 3 V8 N/S63TU3 has addressed all the heat damage concerns. But yes I think an F85 because its newer, and BMW made a concerted effort to address many of the E70 concerns, you'll likely have better luck with it. But remember, these are essentially very expensive "sports" SUVs, and will always be more expensive to maintain than a regular X5. You pay in depreciation or repairs..

There is a class action lawsuit and settlement against the N/S63TU as well. While I've had 0 problems with my N63TU, it seems that a lot of people have continued to have problems, especially with oil consumption on the N63TU. My 550i (F10) has 81K miles and been flawless. Though I put a low temp t-stat on that one too (every v8 I've owned from BMW I've done this mod). Its my 3rd v8 from BMW.

Neither my S63 or N63TU have ever burned any detectable amount of oil. Leaks that's a different matter.

These cars are best owned under an extended warranty or if you like to DIY/know a mechanic. I used to do all of my own work, but owning multiple businesses, an extended warranty has been a time saver for the work I don't want to do. Much of the work I had done above was covered by my extended warranties (2x) on the X5M. Mine is currently under warranty until 2025.

[Thecastle]

Originally Posted by M3jamaica

Things like this getting me very scared and away from it, as much as i love it i keep hearing horror stories like this, I'm not rich and i worked very hard to save the money for this, no warranty available here. I think of getting the jeep SRT8 instead

Its an alternative. But I don't really think super highly of FCA product quality either, their track record hasn't been the best. Every car has its problems, and its matter of what you can live with. Personally I'd rather deal with a BMW dealer than a CDRJ. The expectations of customers are much lower at those dealers, and they treat you like it. The other is there is ton's of support for BMWs in general if you want to diy. People who buy bimmers are enthusiastic.

Jeeps are known for blowing xfer cases.
Bad lifters
Oil consumption

The BMW is faster....

[M3jamaica]

Anyone knows for sure if bmw fixed many of the problems from e70 to f85? My main issue is the time consuming effort of fixing things continuously, i don't mind maintenance and fixing problems, i just would like to drive and enjoy without that dreaded engine malfunction light popping up every other week. If the f85 addressed those issues i don't mind to spend an extra 30k for it. I been on this forum researching for a whole week on the e70 x5m, and it's my conclusions that most people have lots of problems and downtime with it .

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by M3jamaica

Anyone knows for sure if bmw fixed many of the problems from e70 to f85? My main issue is the time consuming effort of fixing things continuously, i don't mind maintenance and fixing problems, i just would like to drive and enjoy without that dreaded engine malfunction light popping up every other week. If the f85 addressed those issues i don't mind to spend an extra 30k for it. I been on this forum researching for a whole week on the e70 x5m, and it's my conclusions that most people have lots of problems and downtime with it .

Yes and No....You will find the F85 to be less issues because of the newer age and lower mileage. All E70 M's are at least a decade old so even hoses and lines go bad on a Toyota after 10 years. But like you said, you are going to spend at least 30K more for the F85. To be aware that some the same old issues are starting to pop back up on the newer platforms. The valve stem seals that plagued the E70 50i and M are coming now for the F15 50i and soon the F85. It is following the very same path as what happened to the E70 with the F15 50is reporting them first due to more mileage they see then a M, with the M soon to follow in the next few years, a few rumbles about oil consumption are already starting on the F85 forums. A new class action lawsuit was just settled for the F15, the F85 will be left out just like the E70 M was even though they use the exact same parts. Be wary of any M, no matter what the model past 100K miles for protentional issues with the valve stem seals. The parts are cheap, the 40+ hours to replace are not.

My recommendation to you is to choose a low Mileage M that was driven very little in city traffic. Heat is what causes all of the issues with these rigs. All of the issues are about plastic and rubber bits failing or sensors going out, all related to heat. Something in the 30-60K mileage would be ideal and from an owner that did mainly highway miles and very little city/stop and go. This is why you find such a variation with the experiences, with some reporting no issues, and others a nightmare. A M that was used for city commutes in stop and go traffic or left idling in the summer heat while waiting for the kids will be a nightmare later in its life with all the sensors and plastic/rubber failing, vs the M that was driven fast on a highway which will have little issues even thought technically its engine was pushed harder. Knowing the previous owners driving habits is just as important as the service records which choosing one.

As for Jeep vs M, I would test drive them both and see which one you like better, it is two completely different experiences. There is a reason why we put up with such complicated machines, nothing else comes close to driving like them IMHO.

[M3jamaica]

Thank u Redneck, great response

[Thecastle]

I'd also mention there are some advantages of an E70 over an F85.

The E70 has hydraulic steering which give much better road and steering feel than an F85.

Its more depreciated so it will be cheaper on initial purchase.

The E70's problems due to age are well known and you'll find plenty of after market support and parts to fix these issues.

I like both the F85 and E70, but if I was shopping I'd choose an F85.

The Jeep doesn't have as much power, nor does it have the hydraulic role stabilization which makes the E70/F85 have very little body roll. I would go newer rather than older there as well. But its ultimately about what you like driving day in and day out.

[M3jamaica]

Well i don't make up my mind yet, but it's gonna be either the e70 or the f85.....i can't decide. On one side i save 30k getting the e70 that i equally like, but I'm thinking about the stress and money if I'm not a lucky one..... second I'm scared to spend the extra 30k and then start having the same issues as if i bought the e70. Coincidentally they both have 44k miles on them.....

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by M3jamaica

Well i don't make up my mind yet, but it's gonna be either the e70 or the f85.....i can't decide. On one side i save 30k getting the e70 that i equally like, but I'm thinking about the stress and money if I'm not a lucky one..... second I'm scared to spend the extra 30k and then start having the same issues as if i bought the e70. Coincidentally they both have 44k miles on them.....

If it were me, I would choose the E70, and immediately do preventative maintenance. Replace plugs, coils, all CCV tubes & vacuum lines, head to head coolant line and replace the plastic T's in the turbo lines with metal It's. Change the oil to 5-40 liquid moly And add 2 cans of Mos2. Change all of your other fluids next. Under 1500 for everything. Then take 10k of the 29K you just saved and set aside. You should be problem free as long as change oil every 5k until around 100-120k miles. That 10k you set aside will easily pay for valve stem seals, new turbos, injectors. Hpfp's, sensors that to can do as preventative maintenance at around 100k miles. Now your good until 200k miles and still saving 19k.

To might want to drive both first, E70 and F85 feel quite a bit different, with pros and cons for each.

[M3jamaica]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

If it were me, I would choose the E70, and immediately do preventative maintenance. Replace plugs, coils, all CCV tubes & vacuum lines, head to head coolant line and replace the plastic T's in the turbo lines with metal It's. Change the oil to 5-40 liquid moly And add 2 cans of Mos2. Change all of your other fluids next. Under 1500 for everything. Then take 10k of the 29K you just saved and set aside. You should be problem free as long as change oil every 5k until around 100-120k miles. That 10k you set aside will easily pay for valve stem seals, new turbos, injectors. Hpfp's, sensors that to can do as preventative maintenance at around 100k miles. Now your good until 200k miles and still saving 19k.

To might want to drive both first, E70 and F85 feel quite a bit different, with pros and cons for each.

U got a huge point here. Makes a lot of sense.

[bad///Mechanic]

Wow. This thread is exactly what I needed. New member here. Purchased my '13 X5 M with 107k miles on it a few weeks ago.

Coming from a Jeep that's old enough to drink to my first Bimmer, I'm in love but also terrified. I'm a DIY mechanic and not afraid of doing my own maintenance and repairs, but I know I'm lacking a lot of knowledge! ...and BMW TIS

I just changed the oil with Castrol Edge 5w30 and tightened up the oil pump chain tension per Sophisticated Redneck's "Something every X5M and 50i owner should check." thread. Mine looked exactly like that video so I'm glad I did!

Looks like my to-do list just got significantly longer.