Are these tires SPENT?

[Monkey Throttle]

Went to Willow Springs a few weeks ago. First track day in 15 years. Was having some problems getting my tires dialed into the right temperature. Started too low. Kept them too low. (started them at 26-28 seems like I should have started at 34...) I knew I beat the hell out of them. I had a lot going on that day and should have been focused on my tires but wasn't.

My question is, do they have anything left on them? The rears are fine. Can I use them for a few more track days?

[rears, not pictured, appear to be fine.]

[Suds]

I would consider them ok for daily driving, but I wouldn’t take them to the track again.

If you are getting into tracking I would suggest some track wheels with track tires.

666M’s are a heavy rim with limited tire choices.

I would go with a 18” or 19” rim, there are a lot more tire choices.

[Monkey Throttle]

Originally Posted by Suds

I would consider them ok for daily driving, but I wouldn’t take them to the track again.

If you are getting into tracking I would suggest some track wheels with track tires.

666M’s are a heavy rim with limited tire choices.

Yeah, that's my next move. Just don't think I can pull it together before next weekend and I was supposed to hit Buttonwillow.
I'm gonna pound the pavement tomorrow and see if I can find some Apex wheels.

[TractionControlDelete]

Seems like a stretch for another track day. How were the tires responding to your inputs in your last session? What was your best lap time versus a representative lap in your last session?

[Suds]

Titan7 does have 18x9.5” x 18x10.5” so you can run a Nitto 275/35/18 front and 305/35/18 rear. It’s a great combination.

I am also running square 275/35/18 on two sets of rims that are 18”x10”wide.

Originally Posted by Monkey Throttle

Yeah, that's my next move. Just don't think I can pull it together before next weekend and I was supposed to hit Buttonwillow.
I'm gonna pound the pavement tomorrow and see if I can find some Apex wheels.

[Monkey Throttle]

Originally Posted by F82KPowers

Seems like a stretch for another track day. How were the tires responding to your inputs in your last session? What was your best lap time versus a representative lap in your last session?

Tbh, I wasn't timing. It was my first track day in the new to me M4. I pushed the shit out of it (as you can see by the under inflated tires, lol) but getting used to the car and being able to articulate what was working and what was flat... I need some more track days in it to tell.
I was mostly trying to get used to having my butt in IRL seat. (I do a lot of sim racing..).

My plan is to go square corners so I can find tires and rotate accordingly. I know I might give up some grip but it seems like a smart sacrifice.

[APR-M4!]

If you did that in one track day, maybe you need camber plates to get more static negative camber.

[TractionControlDelete]

Originally Posted by Monkey Throttle

Tbh, I wasn't timing. It was my first track day in the new to me M4. I pushed the shit out of it (as you can see by the under inflated tires, lol) but getting used to the car and being able to articulate what was working and what was flat... I need some more track days in it to tell.
I was mostly trying to get used to having my butt in IRL seat. (I do a lot of sim racing..).

My plan is to go square corners so I can find tires and rotate accordingly. I know I might give up some grip but it seems like a smart sacrifice.

18x10 ET 25 with 275/35 is a good setup that might suit you.

I haven't done sim racing before although it looks really cool… I see these guys on YouTube with $15,000 setups and it's fun to watch. Did you feel like what you've learned in sim racing helped for your first real world track day??

[Monkey Throttle]

Originally Posted by F82KPowers

18x10 ET 25 with 275/35 is a good setup that might suit you.

I haven't done sim racing before although it looks really cool… I see these guys on YouTube with $15,000 setups and it's fun to watch. Did you feel like what you've learned in sim racing helped for your first real world track day??

I have a pretty wicked setup which probably cost me around $10k. I would suggest that it's an amazing tool for working on track technique and race craft.
The thing is, I've been doing track days since 1999. I just stopped around 2008 because of the recession. Sim racing got me wanting to do track days again.
I used to race in the Skip Barber regional series in the RT 2000 open wheel open cockpit formula car. That is what I mostly race on Iracing. Same car. It's 9/10's just like the racing I used to do.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask.. I love talking SIM racing. It's freaking awesome.

[IMG][/IMG]

[Monkey Throttle]

Originally Posted by APR-M4!

If you did that in one track day, maybe you need camber plates to get more static negative camber.

I don't know much about camber plates. Out of curiosity, are you suggesting that keeping in mind that my tires were under inflated?
What would necessitate camber plates? Is it driving style? If I change my wheels and tires to 18"s and inflate them properly, you still think I will need plates?

[Monkey Throttle]

Okay, just ordered some Apex SM 10. Square corners.
18X10" ET25 APEX SM-10

Think I'm gonna mount them with Falken Azenis RT615
275x35 r18

How's that setup sound for track days and commute to track?

[APR-M4!]

Originally Posted by Monkey Throttle

I don't know much about camber plates. Out of curiosity, are you suggesting that keeping in mind that my tires were under inflated?
What would necessitate camber plates? Is it driving style? If I change my wheels and tires to 18"s and inflate them properly, you still think I will need plates?

When cornering, the front wheels gain camber which moves the weight of the car onto the outer edge of the tires. This causes the outer edge to wear faster than the rest of the tires.

To compensate for this static negative camber is added to the front end. Negative camber is the top of the tire is titled inward compared to the bottom of the tire. From the factory the car has about 1 to 1.5 degrees negative camber with no adjustment. To increase this, you need camber plates and/or longer lower control arms. The camber plates move the top of the strut inward and the longer lower control arms move the bottom of the hub out.

My guess is your need 2 to 2.5 degrees negative camber for street tires, which you can get with camber plates. If you go to Hosiers, you might need up to 3.5 degrees negative camber, which may require the lower control arms with the camber plates.

[D_SheerDrivingPleasure]

Originally Posted by Monkey Throttle

Okay, just ordered some Apex SM 10. Square corners.
18X10" ET25 APEX SM-10

Think I'm gonna mount them with Falken Azenis RT615
275x35 r18

How's that setup sound for track days and commute to track?

congrats on getting back in the saddle.

Personally, I recommend NT01, especially if you aren't daily driving (loud and awful in the rain) They wear like iron. I start at 28-29 cold and get up to 37psi hot.

you will also want a track oriented brake pad and some high temp brake fluid. lots of options.

camber plates are nice too. that's about all you really need with this platform until you get really fast.

enjoy.

[APR-M4!]

For street tire pressures on the M4, I start with 32 psi then bleed down to 36 to 38 psi hot. With Hosiers on a Camaro, I start with about 28 psi and bleed down as necessary.

I am not sure what they signs of an under inflated tire is at the track, but my guess is the damage is closer to the center of the tires. Plus, if you start too low the bead my pull off and deflate the tires (been there).

[D_SheerDrivingPleasure]

That sim setup is incredible. FWIW, a coworkers cousin is a pro driver (IMSA) who trains with a sim. He says his lap times are within tenths of second of his actual track performance.

This has come a long way since Gran Turismo.

[SYT_Shadow]

I think the tire wear is due to camber, not underinflation. Starting at 27 cold is nothing crazy.

You would have done better getting 10.5 square tires vs the 10. More support for your tires with a relatively heavy car = happiness

[Monkey Throttle]

Originally Posted by APR-M4!

My guess is your need 2 to 2.5 degrees negative camber for street tires, which you can get with camber plates. If you go to Hosiers, you might need up to 3.5 degrees negative camber, which may require the lower control arms with the camber plates.

Would you mind linking me where I can buy these said plates? I have no experience with camber plates at all. Also, I'm going to 18"s for the track. DO you make the same recommendation for a different wheel?

[jfritz27]

I suggest going with the Vorshlag camber plates. If you want the easiest on-the-fly adjustability, I think these win over Ground Control (seemingly the most popular option around here). People also seem to like Milway, but Vorshlag more easily available in the US

https://vorshlag-store.com/products/...ilover-perches

If you're going for an 18" square setup (not what I have, but am contemplating), agree with going for a 10.5 wheel. You could potentially run a 295/30/18 square setup on that with ~-3 of front negative camber and an appropriate spacer up front

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Monkey Throttle

Yeah, that's my next move. Just don't think I can pull it together before next weekend and I was supposed to hit Buttonwillow.
I'm gonna pound the pavement tomorrow and see if I can find some Apex wheels.

I definitely would not use these tires at Buttonwillow. 13CW has two high speed left sweepers that demand a lot from your driver side tires, although not as much as turn 8 and 9 at Big Willow!

If you absolutely had to, you could flip these tires or rotate left to right and monitor them every session.

Originally Posted by Monkey Throttle

Would you mind linking me where I can buy these said plates? I have no experience with camber plates at all. Also, I'm going to 18"s for the track. DO you make the same recommendation for a different wheel?

Apex wheels, Titan 7, bimmerworld... all good track wheel options for the F8X.

I got Ground Control camber plates based on the popularity here on the boards amongst the F8X crowd and they haven't dissapointed.

Originally Posted by Monkey Throttle

Okay, just ordered some Apex SM 10. Square corners.
18X10" ET25 APEX SM-10

Think I'm gonna mount them with Falken Azenis RT615
275x35 r18

How's that setup sound for track days and commute to track?

Look into the RT660's which are the updated replacement tire for the RT615K. They are symmetrical directional so you can rotate them. RT615Ks are asymmetrical so your rotation options are a bit more limited. RT660 won't last as long as the RT615K+ but are faster and more responsive.

Originally Posted by Monkey Throttle

I don't know much about camber plates. Out of curiosity, are you suggesting that keeping in mind that my tires were under inflated?
What would necessitate camber plates? Is it driving style? If I change my wheels and tires to 18"s and inflate them properly, you still think I will need plates?

The F8X needs camber plates at the track regardless of driving style. I was still experiencing corner wear at -2.7 camber, I'm running -3.7 now and just coming back from Buttonwillow wear is much better!

[APR-M4!]

Originally Posted by Monkey Throttle

Would you mind linking me where I can buy these said plates? I have no experience with camber plates at all. Also, I'm going to 18"s for the track. DO you make the same recommendation for a different wheel?

There are many brands of camber plates for the f8x, which is great. I am using Turner Motorsports brand, which seem to be limited to 3 degrees negative camber. However, many people have tracked with Vorshlag, Millway, and Ground Control camber plates.

Here are some good videos on camber plates.

https://youtu.be/sAaLvIqSRV4

https://youtu.be/qoOqc5uFmZQ

[Monkey Throttle]

Are camber plates just for the front?
Or do you need two sets?
1xfront?
1xrear?

How long do they take to install? Can any garage do it or a speciality shop is necessary?

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Monkey Throttle

Are camber plates just for the front?
Or do you need two sets?
1xfront?
1xrear?

How long do they take to install? Can any garage do it or a speciality shop is necessary?

The rears are factory adjustable to a degree, I'm running -2.3 at the rear 0.11 toe in. Anything more than that and you need to start looking at aftermarket options.

Install takes an hour or so. If you are getting coil-overs just do it in one shot. Any performance/enthusiast or competent mechanic can install it, but an alignment shop needs to dial it in. Since you are local to me, I'd recommend WEST END ALIGNMENT, who are in the middle of a relocation, or CHEWERKS. I've used both for track setups and they are both great. I've also been to MINI CORSA in North Hollywood, but they actually outsource their alignments to another shop, which I didn't know at the time so I couldn't do a driver loaded corner balance.