Is toe-in recommended for track days?

[ABenLauda]

Hi All,

I couldn't find a definite answer to this. I've heard some people have 0 toe-in in the front with a little toe-in the rear while some others have some toe-in in the front and a little less toe-in in the rear. What is recommended? 0 toe or some toe-in for the fronts and rears?

My car sees track weekends about once a month and is also my daily driver. The most driving I do is the trip to the track and back home (3 - 3.5 hrs one way). Currently I have -2.9 front camber and -1.4 rear camber with stock toe.

TIA.

[FaRKle!]

For pure track care you'd actually want toe out in the front for turn in responsiveness and toe in on the rear (for RWD) to keep the rear end in line.

Since you daily drive your car, go with a slight bit of toe in, like 0.03deg each side. Driving around public roads with toe out is annoying as hell since the car wants to catch every road feature and deviate from straight.

[DRLane]

Would keep front toe neutral. Toe out is lovely for turn in but it'll roast your tires. The wear isn't worth it especially with all the daily driving.

Toe in the rear is really nice. Provides stability under braking and obviously tames the rear for power delivery at exit.

[NYG]

0 front toe for dual duty.
front toe out for track
front toe in sucks

[ABenLauda]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

Since you daily drive your car, go with a slight bit of toe in, like 0.03deg each side.

To clarify, you meant toe-in in the rears only and not the fronts?

[NYG]

Originally Posted by ABenChod

To clarify, you meant toe-in in the rears only and not the fronts?

He might mean front. Realistically toe-in at the front helps stabilize the car at higher speeds because of weight transfer to the back in the f8x but simultaneously, it cripples your turn in speeds and cornering behavior of the tire.

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by ABenChod

To clarify, you meant toe-in in the rears only and not the fronts?

I was referring to the front. You want more toe than that in the rear.

As an example BMW recommends something like 0.5deg toe in each side in the rear for the M2 CS Racing. That's a bit excessive IMO, but illustrates the point.

[jfritz27]

There's some recent related threads on this, but for the front if you have camber plates you can have the best of both worlds by aligning with desired toe-out at track camber setting (say -3ish or more negative), and then on your less aggressive street setting the car will toe in. Then you change back/forth at the track.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by jfritz27

There's some recent related threads on this, but for the front if you have camber plates you can have the best of both worlds by aligning with desired toe-out at track camber setting (say -3ish or more negative), and then on your less aggressive street setting the car will toe in. Then you change back/forth at the track.

I was going to say this. It allows you to have a daily driver M car without compromising what camber and toe.

This is very worthwhile. No point in using a single setting when switching back and forth can be done reliably and one jack in a few minutes

[NYG]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

I was referring to the front. You want more toe than that in the rear.

As an example BMW recommends something like 0.5deg toe in each side in the rear for the M2 CS Racing. That's a bit excessive IMO, but illustrates the point.

Yeah definitely want toe-in for the rear on a RWD car with a lot of power.

Very little toe-in for the front on a dual duty car makes a ton of sense, especially heavier RWD cars with non-race suspensions. The tire wear and turn in wasn't worth it for me.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by NYG

Yeah definitely want toe-in for the rear on a RWD car with a lot of power.

My understanding is that this not necessarily the case.

Traditionally, a RWD car would have slight toe-out. Since the wheels deflect forward when under power, this neutralises the toe.

However, with the suspension geometry on the F8X, rear suspension compression yields toe-in while suspension extension yields toe-out. This makes for a sort of passive rear wheel steering in the same direction as the turn to improve high speed cornering stability. However, under braking, it increases the rear toe-out, making the rear unstable. I improved my braking stability by increasing the rear to the GTS recommended 0.30 deg total toe-in.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by ABenChod

Hi All,

I couldn't find a definite answer to this. I've heard some people have 0 toe-in in the front with a little toe-in the rear while some others have some toe-in in the front and a little less toe-in in the rear. What is recommended? 0 toe or some toe-in for the fronts and rears?

My car sees track weekends about once a month and is also my daily driver. The most driving I do is the trip to the track and back home (3 - 3.5 hrs one way). Currently I have -2.9 front camber and -1.4 rear camber with stock toe.

TIA.

Stock front toe (0.17deg total toe-in) works decently well for a dual use car. Front toe-out will definitely make the car more reactive to steering inputs for the track, however it will make the car jittery and will rapidly destroy the inside shoulders of the tires on the street.

I found slightly increasing the rear toe-in to M4 GTS spec (0.30deg total toe-in) improved high speed stability under braking.

[stevehifi]

Front toe-in sucks on this car.. its struggles enough to turn in well. I recommend what the other chaps on here are saying about having a street alignment with 0 toe and then moving the plates out for more camber and as a result adding some toe out (-0.2deg)
when on the track.