Switching front camber from street to track setting?

[codys21]

So I did my first track day last weekend with the plain-Jane summer tires that were on my car and whatever stock alignment settings. I am thinking about grabbing a separate track tire and rim set for track days and adding front camber plates to go with it. My question is is it easy to switch between street and track camber settings? I would want to run street camber when I'm just on my regular summer/winter tires but switch to more negative track camber when I switch to my track tires for a track day. From the research I've done, it looks like I can go to an alignment shop, use a marker to mark the position of the street settings, have the shop align for track settings, and mark that position as well. Then at the track, loosen the plates, move to track settings, and tighten. And at end of day reverse. I know too much camber change can mess with toe but not that much, right? Especially if I'm only moving to ~-2.4 degrees up front for track.

Are all camber plates easily adjustable to move from street to track settings? Or are some better than others for this?

Thanks!

[SYT_Shadow]

It is definitely possible, I've been doing that for years.

If you align to -3 camber with 0.4 degrees of toe out (track setting), then ask them to go removing camber until you get to 0.3 degrees of toe in (street setting), now you can move between them at will. The 'street' setting will be around -2 camber, which is perfectly reasonable and allows you to drive 10k without any strange wear

[NYG]

Tbh, -2.5 front is a pretty solid set it and forget it camber for a dual duty car. The wear is relatively mild on the street.

If you want to go REAL aggressive on track camber then it would make sense to switch back and forth.

[codys21]

Originally Posted by NYG

Tbh, -2.5 front is a pretty solid set it and forget it camber for a dual duty car. The wear is relatively mild on the street.

If you want to go REAL aggressive on track camber then it would make sense to switch back and forth.

That's kind of what I thought, but since I'm changing tires, why not change camber? Why bother having even relatively mild inside wear on the street if it's easy enough to change back? If it's annoying or a nuisance to change back and forth then I could definitely leave it at -2.5 and forget it.

[RugbyBro]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

It is definitely possible, I've been doing that for years.

If you align to -3 camber with 0.4 degrees of toe out (track setting), then ask them to go removing camber until you get to 0.3 degrees of toe in (street setting), now you can move between them at will. The 'street' setting will be around -2 camber, which is perfectly reasonable and allows you to drive 10k without any strange wear

So is the best way to ask this to say (in steps):

1. Set the initial alignment to -3 camber & 0.4 toe out and lock that as the "out" position
2. Then move the camber in until toe is 0.3 toe in and lock that as the "in" position

Thinking about how to communicate this to the shop once I eventually pick up some plates. It's really just in case I am not able to get to a shop that has experience with track oriented suspension/alignment so just want to cover my bases.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by RugbyBro

So is the best way to ask this to say (in steps):

1. Set the initial alignment to -3 camber & 0.4 toe out and lock that as the "out" position
2. Then move the camber in until toe is 0.3 toe in and lock that as the "in" position

Thinking about how to communicate this to the shop once I eventually pick up some plates. It's really just in case I am not able to get to a shop that has experience with track oriented suspension/alignment so just want to cover my bases.

Basically yes. Pm your email to me and I'll send the alignment sheet over.

Once you get to -3 and total toe out 0.4, you mark that as your track setting. Toe is no longer touched. The next step is to go removing camber which affects the toe (although you are no longer adjusting toe, just measuring what happens) and you keep removing camber until toe moves from total toe out 0.4 to total toe in 0.3. At that point, your camber is around -2 and the plates are marked a second time.

From then on, you just move camber by jacking up the front and take it from one setting to the other.

The toe out track setting is very desirable on front engined/rwd cars

[NYG]

Originally Posted by codys21

That's kind of what I thought, but since I'm changing tires, why not change camber? Why bother having even relatively mild inside wear on the street if it's easy enough to change back? If it's annoying or a nuisance to change back and forth then I could definitely leave it at -2.5 and forget it.

I mean, it's definitely going to be annoying. If you're going to run a super aggressive camber and drive to the track, you'll ruin your stock tires on the way there and back more than if you just left it at a milder camber.

What tracks do you frequent?

[codys21]

Originally Posted by NYG

I mean, it's definitely going to be annoying. If you're going to run a super aggressive camber and drive to the track, you'll ruin your stock tires on the way there and back more than if you just left it at a milder camber.

What tracks do you frequent?

How long does it take to switch from one setting to another? Is this something I could do after I arrive at the track in the morning?

Track-wise, nothing frequented yet I've only done one at Raceway Park of the Midlands near Omaha, NE. It's the closest track to me but still just over 2 hours away. Other track are 4-6 hours away (I'm in Des Moines)

[NYG]

Originally Posted by codys21

How long does it take to switch from one setting to another? Is this something I could do after I arrive at the track in the morning?

Track-wise, nothing frequented yet I've only done one at Raceway Park of the Midlands near Omaha, NE. It's the closest track to me but still just over 2 hours away. Other track are 4-6 hours away (I'm in Des Moines)

It's a couple of hex heads if you're using GC camber plates but with unloading your car, checking tires, pressures, fluids, wheel bolt torque, drivers meetings - I don't know if I'd want to add that to the list. It's certainly not that quick.

Try -2.5 for a little bit, I'm fairly confident you'll be very happy with it on a dual duty car.

All that extra crap and adjustments would take away from the fun stuff for me.

[m4forum]

I just get my alignment done. Have Vorshlag camber plates. With minimal camber allowed is around -2.0 degree and +2mm toe in. With -3.0 degree negative I get zero toe. Please easy to change at the track. Just make sure both front wheels are off the ground so there is not torsion on front and make easy to slide the plates.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by codys21

How long does it take to switch from one setting to another? Is this something I could do after I arrive at the track in the morning?

Track-wise, nothing frequented yet I've only done one at Raceway Park of the Midlands near Omaha, NE. It's the closest track to me but still just over 2 hours away. Other track are 4-6 hours away (I'm in Des Moines)

Very little. My tire is already in the air as I have to swap tires for the track. It takes around 30 seconds per tire, so a minute.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Very little. My tire is already in the air as I have to swap tires for the track. It takes around 30 seconds per tire, so a minute.

You're way faster than I am.

By the time I jack up each side and do it a solid 20 minutes passes.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by NYG

You're way faster than I am.

By the time I jack up each side and do it a solid 20 minutes passes.

Us old people get faster at doing the same thing every time

I have to swap wheels anyway, so the wheel is going up in the air no matter what

[NYG]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Us old people get faster at doing the same thing every time

I have to swap wheels anyway, so the wheel is going up in the air no matter what

Before I got the APs, I had to show up 30 minutes earlier just so I can bleed my brake system before each day. Remembering that makes me cringe in pain...

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by NYG

Before I got the APs, I had to show up 30 minutes earlier just so I can bleed my brake system before each day. Remembering that makes me cringe in pain...

Oh God. I bleed my brakes once a season, that's it. But you're a faster driver than most, so those oem brakes didn't stand a chance in hell!

So... does it take 30 minutes with or without your cool IG selfies? Lol

[NYG]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Oh God. I bleed my brakes once a season, that's it. But you're a faster driver than most, so those oem brakes didn't stand a chance in hell!

So... does it take 30 minutes with or without your cool IG selfies? Lol

Haha, no selfies. I'm a slow mover in the mornings.

[codys21]

Does only one wheel need to be up at a time? So to adjust the left front camber plate, only the left front tire needs to be off the ground? Or do both front tires need to be off the ground?

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by codys21

Does only one wheel need to be up at a time? So to adjust the left front camber plate, only the left front tire needs to be off the ground? Or do both front tires need to be off the ground?

I only take one side off the ground at a time

[jfritz27]

This season I began doing the camber switch as well, and can verify it's quick (one side always takes more oomph for me than the other for some reason) -- easiest way to do it, I think, is with corner up in air but with tire on, push in on the top side of tire to gain more leverage (as opposed to prying at the plate). When going from -3 back to -2, you simply loosen the bolts and physics just makes the plate slide back to -2 with no effort on your part.

Another vote for Vorshlag plates. At my current ride height, the adjustment slider is at -2 on one end and -3 on the other (but that's basically the max negative). My gripe with the GC plates is that to achieve this adjustment range I would have had to flip the slider bolts back and forth (street vs race position). The Vorshlags have a much simpler overall design and for me I just need to loosen and slide without any other drama

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by jfritz27

This season I began doing the camber switch as well, and can verify it's quick (one side always takes more oomph for me than the other for some reason) -- easiest way to do it, I think, is with corner up in air but with tire on, push in on the top side of tire to gain more leverage (as opposed to prying at the plate). When going from -3 back to -2, you simply loosen the bolts and physics just makes the plate slide back to -2 with no effort on your part.

Another vote for Vorshlag plates. At my current ride height, the adjustment slider is at -2 on one end and -3 on the other (but that's basically the max negative). My gripe with the GC plates is that to achieve this adjustment range I would have had to flip the slider bolts back and forth (street vs race position). The Vorshlags have a much simpler overall design and for me I just need to loosen and slide without any other drama

Good point, we did not cover that: it's easiest with the tire on. I push with my body onto the wheel

[NYG]

Originally Posted by jfritz27

This season I began doing the camber switch as well, and can verify it's quick (one side always takes more oomph for me than the other for some reason) -- easiest way to do it, I think, is with corner up in air but with tire on, push in on the top side of tire to gain more leverage (as opposed to prying at the plate). When going from -3 back to -2, you simply loosen the bolts and physics just makes the plate slide back to -2 with no effort on your part.

Another vote for Vorshlag plates. At my current ride height, the adjustment slider is at -2 on one end and -3 on the other (but that's basically the max negative). My gripe with the GC plates is that to achieve this adjustment range I would have had to flip the slider bolts back and forth (street vs race position). The Vorshlags have a much simpler overall design and for me I just need to loosen and slide without any other drama

Never tried Vorshlag but you're right about the adjustment being minimal with GC plates.

[codys21]

Originally Posted by jfritz27

This season I began doing the camber switch as well, and can verify it's quick (one side always takes more oomph for me than the other for some reason) -- easiest way to do it, I think, is with corner up in air but with tire on, push in on the top side of tire to gain more leverage (as opposed to prying at the plate). When going from -3 back to -2, you simply loosen the bolts and physics just makes the plate slide back to -2 with no effort on your part.

Another vote for Vorshlag plates. At my current ride height, the adjustment slider is at -2 on one end and -3 on the other (but that's basically the max negative). My gripe with the GC plates is that to achieve this adjustment range I would have had to flip the slider bolts back and forth (street vs race position). The Vorshlags have a much simpler overall design and for me I just need to loosen and slide without any other drama

That's very useful info, thanks. And yea isn't the barrier between street/race on the GC plates like -2.5? So if in street position, the highest you can go is -2.5. Likewise the lowest in race is -2.5? So going from -1.5 to -3 is much more of a pain on GC.

What's the min and max threshold on the Vorshlag plates? Sounds like -3 is max for your ride hide. What's min? (though I guess min could actually be -3 since it's a negative and max the other way )