KW v3 vs. HR VTF

KCTiger · 08-01-2019, 10:34 AM

spacejamm_x5m's recent post about his highly modded (and amazing) ride got me to thinking about KW v3 vs. H&R VTF. I have read many of the posts disappointed with stiffness/bounciness/etc. with any and all non KW systems (admitting that not everyone feels this way). However, does spacejamm's disclosure that bump stops play a big part in the overall ride quality change anything?

I will honest with you guys: a significant reason for my curiosity is cost. I am sure the KW system is superior but perhaps by removing or shortening the bump stops the two systems are not as far apart as some might think.

Thoughts?

iconoclast · 08-01-2019, 11:00 AM

KW V3. Shock and coil paired from the factory without modification or removal of other components to achieve the desired results.

Violator · 08-01-2019, 11:16 AM

I believe that daytonaviolet installed the HR VTF then swapped to KW V3. He would be a great member to speak with about this.

KCTiger · 08-01-2019, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Violator

I believe that daytonaviolet installed the HR VTF then swapped to KW V3. He would be a great member to speak with about this.

It was actually daytonaviolet's post in another thread that got me to thinking about this. It was in that thread that he said: "So did you take them [bump stops] out completely or just cut them down to size. Perhaps I shouldn't of tried this before getting kw 🥴"

AutoTalent · 08-01-2019, 03:26 PM

The VTF kit comes with it's own bump stops, the ride quality is definitely a bit rougher with more roll on the spring kit versus KW V3.

Logical · 08-01-2019, 06:23 PM

Sorry to hijack is the coil over appropriate for winter driving?

F85MTuNED · 08-01-2019, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logical

Sorry to hijack is the coil over appropriate for winter driving?

I don't think it matters as long as it's setup correctly I doubt The weather Will make a difference.

daytonaviolet · 08-01-2019, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AutoTalent

The VTF kit comes with it's own bump stops, the ride quality is definitely a bit rougher with more roll on the spring kit versus KW V3.

My vtf kit only came with the items in this picture. For my vtf install we reused the Oem front shocks and all bump stops.

I've read about others using the dinan bump stops as they were shorter. But I never experimented with cutting or completing removing the stops. 🤔

r33_RGSport · 08-01-2019, 10:54 PM

Bounciness is all depending on the car's owner.

I personally think E70 X5 ride quality was perfect, but most are saying that it is too stiff.
Some says the F15 X5 / F85 X5M suspension is too soft, some says it is harsh.

In this subject, it is very hard to compare someone's feedback to your personal preference.

Overall, after installing many2 suspension, so far the best road coilover is KW V3.
Is it my cup of tea, to tell you the truth, no.
I prefer a more aggressive suspension even for my street car.

H&R VTF, some do like it, some don't. Some says it is bouncy, some don't. It is all depending on how low is your setup.

Bump stop wise, it is a safety feature in the damper.
If you goes too low, you are pretty much riding on a bump stop, which is technically a very high rate spring.
If you are sure that you won't overload the car or going over a dip or bump in a high speed where it will cause the shock to max bottom, then yes, you can run without it.

r33_RGSport · 08-01-2019, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AutoTalent

The VTF kit comes with it's own bump stops, the ride quality is definitely a bit rougher with more roll on the spring kit versus KW V3.

It doesn't comes with bump stop.

AutoTalent · 08-02-2019, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daytonaviolet

My vtf kit only came with the items in this picture. For my vtf install we reused the Oem front shocks and all bump stops.

I've read about others using the dinan bump stops as they were shorter. But I never experimented with cutting or completing removing the stops. 🤔

Quote:

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

It doesn't comes with bump stop.

Oops you are 100% correct! They come with 2x springs and the control rods for the rear

My bad

KCTiger · 08-02-2019, 06:29 AM

Thanks for all of the responses. Not sure what I will do. I typically ride in sport+ and think the ride is fine. It would be great to go with VTF due to cost but I think I would prefer KW. We will see. Thanks again.

Phara · 08-18-2019, 02:02 PM

Installed H&R sport springs and links. Didn't like it at all. Installed KW var 3 this Saturday. It's a miracle, car is lowered now, and rides almost perfectly. Will make littles adjustments tomorrow and quite sure it's going to be perfect

KCTiger · 08-18-2019, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phara

Installed H&R sport springs and links. Didn't like it at all. Installed KW var 3 this Saturday. It's a miracle, car is lowered now, and rides almost perfectly. Will make littles adjustments tomorrow and quite sure it's going to be perfect

What settings?

Phara · 08-19-2019, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCTiger

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phara

Installed H&R sport springs and links. Didn't like it at all. Installed KW var 3 this Saturday. It's a miracle, car is lowered now, and rides almost perfectly. Will make littles adjustments tomorrow and quite sure it's going to be perfect

What settings?

Now I have these

Front
Bump 6
Rebound 6

Rear
Bump 6
Rebound 9

Kruppa · 08-21-2019, 10:27 AM

I have a thread on this as well. I had VTF and switched to KW V3. Night and day. With roads around me VTF was way too harsh and V3 can ride as soft as stock. My settings are posted in the thread as well.

Phara · 08-21-2019, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kruppa

I have a thread on this as well. I had VTF and switched to KW V3. Night and day. With roads around me VTF was way too harsh and V3 can ride as soft as stock. My settings are posted in the thread as well.

Went through all thread, saw your settings, contacted KW office in Germany, they also confirmed factory settings are the best for everyday usage

KCTiger · 08-22-2019, 09:18 AM

Looks like Phara and Kruppa use similar settings. I think daytonaviolet is -6 all around, not sure about desertfox73.

If any of the folks knowledgeable about this system feel like indulging me, a few questions:
1. How easy it is to adjust the bump and rebound? Must the car be on a lift?
2. Same question but related to amount of drop. Easy? On a lift? I think most folks went with max drop but maybe that is a faulty assumption.
3. Did anyone require a "camber kit"? Not sure if that is even a term but I thought some folks might need to adjust camber.
4. Were multiple alignments necessary or just one? How long after the install was the alignment performed?

I just re-read Kruppa's thread and if this info was in there, I missed it.

Thanks all.

daytonaviolet · 08-22-2019, 03:01 PM

inline

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCTiger

Looks like Phara and Kruppa use similar settings. I think daytonaviolet is -6 all around, not sure about desertfox73.
i think mine are 6 or 9. i need to double check

If any of the folks knowledgeable about this system feel like indulging me, a few questions:
1. How easy it is to adjust the bump and rebound? Must the car be on a lift?
fronts - under the hood, you need to take the covers off to access the top adjusters. the bottoms, you just turn the wheels to access.
rears - lift up the spare tire cover to access the top, the bottoms just reach under the car

2. Same question but related to amount of drop. Easy? On a lift? I think most folks went with max drop but maybe that is a faulty assumption.
mine is 29" fronts, 30" rears. but i'm going back in for height and alignment check soon. but to adjust height, you need to lift the front and let the wheels hang

3. Did anyone require a "camber kit"? Not sure if that is even a term but I thought some folks might need to adjust camber.
there is no camber kit/adjustment for the front of our cars.

4. Were multiple alignments necessary or just one? How long after the install was the alignment performed?
mine was aligned after install, but i will re-check it after a few weeks

I just re-read Kruppa's thread and if this info was in there, I missed it.

Thanks all.

KCTiger · 08-22-2019, 03:07 PM

Thanks a ton DV! Every pic I have seen of your ride looks great so I might go for a similar drop when I pull the trigger. Getting close on a few projects at work that were the self-imposed milestones before I can pull the trigger. Thanks again

Phara · 08-22-2019, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daytonaviolet

inline

[COLOR="Red"][/COLOR]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCTiger

Looks like Phara and Kruppa use similar settings. I think daytonaviolet is -6 all around, not sure about desertfox73.
[COLOR="red"]i think mine are 6 or 9. i need to double check[/COLOR]

If any of the folks knowledgeable about this system feel like indulging me, a few questions:
1. How easy it is to adjust the bump and rebound? Must the car be on a lift?
[COLOR="red"]fronts - under the hood, you need to take the covers off to access the top adjusters. the bottoms, you just turn the wheels to access.
rears - lift up the spare tire cover to access the top, the bottoms just reach under the car [/COLOR]

2. Same question but related to amount of drop. Easy? On a lift? I think most folks went with max drop but maybe that is a faulty assumption.
[COLOR="red"]mine is 29" fronts, 30" rears. but i'm going back in for height and alignment check soon. but to adjust height, you need to lift the front and let the wheels hang[/COLOR]

3. Did anyone require a "camber kit"? Not sure if that is even a term but I thought some folks might need to adjust camber.
[COLOR="red"]there is no camber kit/adjustment for the front of our cars.
[/COLOR]
4. Were multiple alignments necessary or just one? How long after the install was the alignment performed?
[COLOR="Red"]mine was aligned after install, but i will re-check it after a few weeks[/COLOR]

I just re-read Kruppa's thread and if this info was in there, I missed it.

Thanks all.

4. I had to readjust mine after 3 days. Was slight height difference between rear left/ right

daytonaviolet · 08-22-2019, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phara

4. I had to readjust mine after 3 days. Was slight height difference between rear left/ right

yes.. mine was like that too with the vtf. but with kw, i went on vacation for 3+ weeks and i just got back

so i need to make an appointment. sometimes one side will settle more then the other.

08-01-2019, 10:34 AM	#1
KCTiger Captain 523 Rep 631 Posts Drives: 2016 X5M Join Date: May 2019 Location: KCMO iTrader: (0)	KW v3 vs. HR VTF spacejamm_x5m's recent post about his highly modded (and amazing) ride got me to thinking about KW v3 vs. H&R VTF. I have read many of the posts disappointed with stiffness/bounciness/etc. with any and all non KW systems (admitting that not everyone feels this way). However, does spacejamm's disclosure that bump stops play a big part in the overall ride quality change anything? I will honest with you guys: a significant reason for my curiosity is cost. I am sure the KW system is superior but perhaps by removing or shortening the bump stops the two systems are not as far apart as some might think. Thoughts?
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08-01-2019, 11:00 AM	#2
iconoclast Self-Deprecating Narcissist 7266 Rep 6,561 Posts Drives: Audi BMW Ferrari LR MB Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: In, Out & Around... iTrader: (1)	KW V3. Shock and coil paired from the factory without modification or removal of other components to achieve the desired results. __________________ http://www.instagram.com/_.iconoclast/
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08-01-2019, 11:16 AM	#3
Violator Living the dream 4588 Rep 2,194 Posts Drives: X5 w/MPPK, MPE & RC GTS Black Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: The Lone Star State iTrader: (2)	I believe that daytonaviolet installed the HR VTF then swapped to KW V3. He would be a great member to speak with about this. __________________ My Mod Thread
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08-01-2019, 03:26 PM	#5
AutoTalent Lieutenant General 2311 Rep 12,654 Posts Drives: e92 M3 6mt \| e60 M5 6mt Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (11)	The VTF kit comes with it's own bump stops, the ride quality is definitely a bit rougher with more roll on the spring kit versus KW V3.
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08-01-2019, 06:23 PM	#6
Logical Captain 213 Rep 607 Posts Drives: 2014 M5 Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Berkshire County iTrader: (1)	Sorry to hijack is the coil over appropriate for winter driving? __________________ 2017 F86 X6M 2014 F10 M5 2015 F85 X5 M 2015 F86 X6 M (Retired) 2014 F10 M5 (Retired) 2010 E70 X5 M (Retired), 2010 E92 M3 MT (Retired) 2006 E60 M5 (Retired), 2000 E39 M5 MT (Retired) 1999 E39 328i (Retired), 1995 525i (Retired) 1987 325i (Totaled - that was fun!)
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		BMW X5 and X6 Forum (F15/F16) > BMW X5 (F15) and BMW X6 (F16) Forum > BMW X5M (F85) and X6M (F86) Forum
KW v3 vs. HR VTF

08-01-2019, 10:54 PM	#9
r33_RGSport General 12971 Rep 18,716 Posts Drives: G09 XM, G05 X5 40, 991.2 T Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: So. Cal iTrader: (6)	Bounciness is all depending on the car's owner. I personally think E70 X5 ride quality was perfect, but most are saying that it is too stiff. Some says the F15 X5 / F85 X5M suspension is too soft, some says it is harsh. In this subject, it is very hard to compare someone's feedback to your personal preference. Overall, after installing many2 suspension, so far the best road coilover is KW V3. Is it my cup of tea, to tell you the truth, no. I prefer a more aggressive suspension even for my street car. H&R VTF, some do like it, some don't. Some says it is bouncy, some don't. It is all depending on how low is your setup. Bump stop wise, it is a safety feature in the damper. If you goes too low, you are pretty much riding on a bump stop, which is technically a very high rate spring. If you are sure that you won't overload the car or going over a dip or bump in a high speed where it will cause the shock to max bottom, then yes, you can run without it. __________________ Email:sales@rgsport.com \| IG:RGSport_USA \| Web:RGSportShop.com PM for Everyday DEALS!! MSS • iSweep • RaceChip • Sterckenn • AutoTecknic • Akrapovic • Vossen Wheels • Eventuri Active Autowerke • KW • H&R • Ohlins • Remus • and more...
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08-02-2019, 06:29 AM	#12
KCTiger Captain 523 Rep 631 Posts Drives: 2016 X5M Join Date: May 2019 Location: KCMO iTrader: (0)	Thanks for all of the responses. Not sure what I will do. I typically ride in sport+ and think the ride is fine. It would be great to go with VTF due to cost but I think I would prefer KW. We will see. Thanks again.
	Appreciate 1 r33_RGSport12971.00 Quote

08-18-2019, 02:02 PM	#13
Phara Private 107 Rep 52 Posts Drives: BMW X5M F85 2018 Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: Moscow iTrader: (0)	Installed H&R sport springs and links. Didn't like it at all. Installed KW var 3 this Saturday. It's a miracle, car is lowered now, and rides almost perfectly. Will make littles adjustments tomorrow and quite sure it's going to be perfect
	Appreciate 2 iconoclast7265.50 KCTiger522.50 Quote

08-21-2019, 10:27 AM	#16
Kruppa Second Lieutenant 437 Rep 239 Posts Drives: 2023 M5 Comp & 2024 X7 Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Charleston, SC iTrader: (0)	I have a thread on this as well. I had VTF and switched to KW V3. Night and day. With roads around me VTF was way too harsh and V3 can ride as soft as stock. My settings are posted in the thread as well.
	Appreciate 1 Phara107.00 Quote

08-22-2019, 09:18 AM	#18
KCTiger Captain 523 Rep 631 Posts Drives: 2016 X5M Join Date: May 2019 Location: KCMO iTrader: (0)	Looks like Phara and Kruppa use similar settings. I think daytonaviolet is -6 all around, not sure about desertfox73. If any of the folks knowledgeable about this system feel like indulging me, a few questions: 1. How easy it is to adjust the bump and rebound? Must the car be on a lift? 2. Same question but related to amount of drop. Easy? On a lift? I think most folks went with max drop but maybe that is a faulty assumption. 3. Did anyone require a "camber kit"? Not sure if that is even a term but I thought some folks might need to adjust camber. 4. Were multiple alignments necessary or just one? How long after the install was the alignment performed? I just re-read Kruppa's thread and if this info was in there, I missed it. Thanks all.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-22-2019, 03:07 PM	#20
KCTiger Captain 523 Rep 631 Posts Drives: 2016 X5M Join Date: May 2019 Location: KCMO iTrader: (0)	Thanks a ton DV! Every pic I have seen of your ride looks great so I might go for a similar drop when I pull the trigger. Getting close on a few projects at work that were the self-imposed milestones before I can pull the trigger. Thanks again
	Appreciate 1 daytonaviolet1250.00 Quote