Replace crank hub on brand new car before engine mods?

[DallasLife345M]

I'm planning to put a BM3 tune on my M3 CS in about a month. I'm debating if I should proactively get the crank hub replaced or jut keep the stock crank hub and hope it doesn't spin. Just curious, how many people who have a tune actually replace the crank hub proactively? Any input is greatly appreciated!

[allinon72]

Do you purchase insurance on yourself in case of lightning strikes?

No action is needed.

[moonshine89]

Originally Posted by allinon72

Do you purchase insurance on yourself in case of lightning strikes?

No action is needed.

Are you alluding to life insurance? If so, then I think lightning strikes would still be covered. Especially if that lightning strike killed you.

To answer the OP's question...the majority who get light tunes appear to have no issues with SCH.

If you tune and get a sch, then you can kiss your warranty goodbye. At that point you might as well pay what you would be paying now to get the sch fix (gintani, max psi, or vtt). My personal rec would be to leave your brand new car alone until your warranty is gone. Then you can do whatever you want.

[kerm1t]

There's plenty of members here who's modded and put in a ton or miles. Many issues appear close to or over 600whp mark. So if you're looking for huge power gains, then you should consider upgrading your crank hub.

Also, upgrading crank hubs doesn't necessarily mean it's fail safe. Few people here blew their upgraded hubs

[DallasLife345M]

Originally Posted by kerm1t

There's plenty of members here who's modded and put in a ton or miles. Many issues appear close to or over 600whp mark. So if you're looking for huge power gains, then you should consider upgrading your crank hub.

Also, upgrading crank hubs doesn't necessarily mean it's fail safe. Few people here blew their upgraded hubs

Good point. The only mod I plan on for performance gains is BM3 Stage 1.

[kerm1t]

Originally Posted by DallasLife345M

Good point. The only mod I plan on for performance gains is BM3 Stage 1.

Something I am curious about though is whether or not you'll see noticeable gains from a stage1 on a CS.

Only difference between standard-ZCP-CS is tune from factory (engine wise).

Something to keep in mind is that a "CS" stage 1 won't net you more power than a "Standard" stage 1.

[matty088]

Originally Posted by kerm1t

There's plenty of members here who's modded and put in a ton or miles. Many issues appear close to or over 600whp mark. So if you're looking for huge power gains, then you should consider upgrading your crank hub.

Also, upgrading crank hubs doesn't necessarily mean it's fail safe. Few people here blew their upgraded hubs

I am not sure the threshold is that high where the probability rises. Id call it 525 and higher.

It seems the forum doesnt have a general consensus on this. I suspect over time there will be.

My guess is stage 1 is fine but anything over and the risk starts to rise. I think an e85 tune is pressing your luck and probably skews the risk reward to the point where it doesnt make sense.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by kerm1t

Something I am curious about though is whether or not you'll see noticeable gains from a stage1 on a CS.

Only difference between standard-ZCP-CS is tune from factory (engine wise).

Something to keep in mind is that a "CS" stage 1 won't net you more power than a "Standard" stage 1.

Pretty sure the stg 1 tune is around 50+ hp/tq increase even over the cs power levels. It should absolutely be very noticeable.

[4everkidd]

Originally Posted by kerm1t

There's plenty of members here who's modded and put in a ton or miles. Many issues appear close to or over 600whp mark. So if you're looking for huge power gains, then you should consider upgrading your crank hub.

Also, upgrading crank hubs doesn't necessarily mean it's fail safe. Few people here blew their upgraded hubs

Who has blown their upgraded crank hub? Any links?

[Clark_Kent]

I had a Stage I tune on my 2016 M3 and did not proactively upgrade the crank hub. In all fairness, there were far fewer instances of SCH at that time. Ask yourself this question: Understanding there's a low probability of a SCH, in the event you do nothing and experience a SCH, are you comfortable with that outcome?

It's a question of your appetite for risk or your risk tolerance.

[Gtracer]

Originally Posted by DallasLife345M

I'm planning to put a BM3 tune on my M3 CS in about a month. I'm debating if I should proactively get the crank hub replaced or jut keep the stock crank hub and hope it doesn't spin. Just curious, how many people who have a tune actually replace the crank hub proactively? Any input is greatly appreciated!

I just did the BM3 stage 1 93 octane tune on my 18 and i started to worry about it constantly, then spoke to a good friend thats been at bmw for 10+ years. He assured me its so far and few between that i shouldnt worry about it and enjoy the car. ive got about 2200 miles on it now and its a blast to drive! I also did the AA midpipe and it was one of the best mods ive done to a car in a long time.

[JoeFromPA]

Re-posted from where I wrote this on another thread:

I don't want to repeat what I've posted elsewhere but feel free to search on my username. Here's some key points:

- There is no known crank hub issue on stock vehicles. We now have >60,000 S55 production engines running literally tens of millions of miles driven and the incidence of a documented stock crank hub spin of ANY type is MAYBE ~2-3 such cases we are aware of.

- The incidence rate of a spun crank hub is somewhere between .1-5% of tuned vehicles, with a higher rate occurring in more highly tuned vehicles. It's exceptionally rare even in very high powered situations. Incidence of a spun crank hub does not increase linearly with power increase either.

- There is no known cause of spun crank hubs. It is, as best, conjecture to say whether it's due to increased power or some aspect of the tune itself. If it was power, why does it happen far more with DCT cars than manual cars? If it was the tune itself, why wouldn't manual cars be equally as impacted as DCT cars? We don't know these answers. We just know that if you drive a manual transmission car - and you tune it - you are at far lower incidence of issues.

- Many of the "fixes" have had major issues due to mis-installation or other issues.

....

I own an f80 and it's a valuable asset to me worth about $35k as of today. I find the misinformation around spun crank hubs to be annoying - it's compared to the IMS bearing in Porsches from 1997-2008 yet it's very different. A stock f8x/s55 engine is ridiculously, ludicrously reliable. This is by far the best and most reliable M engine BMW has ever built with the lowest running cost or maintenance needs - EVER.

Please do not throw money at fixing an issue that doesn't exist on your vehicle.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

once u drop in a new engine and sell your spun one...youll probably we in just the same as the crank hub fix

[matty088]

Originally Posted by Gtracer

I just did the BM3 stage 1 93 octane tune on my 18 and i started to worry about it constantly, then spoke to a good friend thats been at bmw for 10+ years. He assured me its so far and few between that i shouldnt worry about it and enjoy the car. ive got about 2200 miles on it now and its a blast to drive! I also did the AA midpipe and it was one of the best mods ive done to a car in a long time.

why ---on the aa midpipe?

[matty088]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Re-posted from where I wrote this on another thread:

I don't want to repeat what I've posted elsewhere but feel free to search on my username. Here's some key points:

- There is no known crank hub issue on stock vehicles. We now have >60,000 S55 production engines running literally tens of millions of miles driven and the incidence of a documented stock crank hub spin of ANY type is MAYBE ~2-3 such cases we are aware of.

- The incidence rate of a spun crank hub is somewhere between .1-5% of tuned vehicles, with a higher rate occurring in more highly tuned vehicles. It's exceptionally rare even in very high powered situations. Incidence of a spun crank hub does not increase linearly with power increase either.

- There is no known cause of spun crank hubs. It is, as best, conjecture to say whether it's due to increased power or some aspect of the tune itself. If it was power, why does it happen far more with DCT cars than manual cars? If it was the tune itself, why wouldn't manual cars be equally as impacted as DCT cars? We don't know these answers. We just know that if you drive a manual transmission car - and you tune it - you are at far lower incidence of issues.

- Many of the "fixes" have had major issues due to mis-installation or other issues.

....

I own an f80 and it's a valuable asset to me worth about $35k as of today. I find the misinformation around spun crank hubs to be annoying - it's compared to the IMS bearing in Porsches from 1997-2008 yet it's very different. A stock f8x/s55 engine is ridiculously, ludicrously reliable. This is by far the best and most reliable M engine BMW has ever built with the lowest running cost or maintenance needs - EVER.

Please do not throw money at fixing an issue that doesn't exist on your vehicle.

Makes sense. I agree on almost all aspects. And will be doing a stage 1 tune very soon. Bm3!

Id guess though that the relationship is more linear than we know at this point. I do think probabilities rise as power output does.It just seems to make sense to me.

[johnnyredgtr]

Originally Posted by DallasLife345M

I'm planning to put a BM3 tune on my M3 CS in about a month. I'm debating if I should proactively get the crank hub replaced or jut keep the stock crank hub and hope it doesn't spin. Just curious, how many people who have a tune actually replace the crank hub proactively? Any input is greatly appreciated!

I feel your pain but, mine 2017 ZCP M3 is almost full bolt ons including PS2+ and been hard since December, No SCH, only put the crank bolt capture about 2 weeks ago. Enjoy your car and get that BM3. You still have warranty.

[Gtracer]

Originally Posted by matty088

why ---on the aa midpipe?

Yes the midpipe is just such a nice addition without ANY sacrifice. I've had everything from a 991,AMG GTS, E63S etc and there was ALWAYS a trade off. With the car in efficient it is absolutely silent, and with it in sport plus it sounds just loud enough. It also made the downshifts with the BM3 sounds incredible.

[kerm1t]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

Pretty sure the stg 1 tune is around 50+ hp/tq increase even over the cs power levels. It should absolutely be very noticeable.

You don't make 50hp on top of cs levels. Stage1 for a base model will net the same power as a stage1 CS. So if you make 50hp for a base, you'll probably won't notice any difference on a CS.

If you make 100hp with stage1 on a base, you'll probably feel a 50hp difference from a CS.

Maybe we're saying the same thing, haha

[kerm1t]

Originally Posted by matty088

I am not sure the threshold is that high where the probability rises. Id call it 525 and higher.

It seems the forum doesnt have a general consensus on this. I suspect over time there will be.

My guess is stage 1 is fine but anything over and the risk starts to rise. I think an e85 tune is pressing your luck and probably skews the risk reward to the point where it doesnt make sense.

If you're running "pure" e85, you're probably looking at high 500 to over 600hp mark.

Your "risk" doesn't change from running e85. Blending some actually might help you.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by kerm1t

You don't make 50hp on top of cs levels. Stage1 for a base model will net the same power as a stage1 CS. So if you make 50hp for a base, you'll probably won't notice any difference on a CS.

If you make 100hp with stage1 on a base, you'll probably feel a 50hp difference from a CS.

Maybe we're saying the same thing, haha

I thought a typical stg 1 tune is around 500 hp/tq no? If so, that would be about 50 more than what the cs makes.

[kerm1t]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

I thought a typical stg 1 tune is around 500 hp/tq no? If so, that would be about 50 more than what the cs makes.

Ive seen mostly 50-75whp. But, maybe 100 with downpipe, not sure.

[Melo_F90]

Originally Posted by DallasLife345M

I'm planning to put a BM3 tune on my M3 CS in about a month. I'm debating if I should proactively get the crank hub replaced or jut keep the stock crank hub and hope it doesn't spin. Just curious, how many people who have a tune actually replace the crank hub proactively? Any input is greatly appreciated!

Less than 5k miles using bm3 my crank spun