Issue after hub fix and midpipe installed...

[Mmvic]

-Background on the car -

e85 tune with downpipes, catback, and plugs.

Ran great, consistent 11.1 @ 129mph 1/4 mile runs...
link to 3rd gear pulls

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5c735390c090c65b0625f8e0

Had this setup for 600-800 miles no problems. I don't drive it much since it's my weekend vehicle. I started getting worried about the crank hub slipping after the thread a couple of weeks back where a guy with same setup spun his.
Decided to get maxpsi hub installed and an AA midpipe while the shop had it. I picked a shop that has done a crank hub fix before and has a great reputation.
Brought the car on Monday and picked it up on Friday. Friday night I decided to go to the track since it was a nice night and the car seemed to run great. I got gas on the way to the track at a station I never went to before... just a couple gallons to get me to 1/4 tank of e85.
I ran 11.3@122mph.... 6 mph slower ( insert midpipe loss of power comment/joke here) on the log it showed my boost was fine but timing was being pulled like crazy

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5c9eaf97c090c650f72d65ed

I contacted my tuner with all this information on Friday night and still have not herd back so I'm here now looking for help. I brought the car back to the shop, they said everything they did looks fine and cannot affected this ( is this true?!? is there anything they did in the hub install process the could be the reason for this)?

the next day after I raced at the track I filled the gas tank up at my usual station and did a pull. timing was better but not perfect.

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5c9fdc2fae729b7a6e83cae6

Could my problems be a result of bad gas?!? Or is there something else I should have the shop check before I pick it up. thanks

[FriedPiston]

What issue are you referring to exactly? The car being slow? If yes, your tuner should be able to explain atmospheric conditions relative to power output given that you're in Florida.

There's also way too many variables for anyone to provide any helpful information here. How about giving us more details like:

1. List of mods with full details (e.g. spark plug gap)
2. When was the last time you tested the ethanol content of your E85 source?
3. Was the battery disconnected for a prolonged time?
4. Did you perform a re-flash recently?
5. What are you doing to maintain good traction?
6. Anything else you can share...

[Mmvic]

Originally Posted by nars3000

What issue are you referring to exactly? The car being slow? If yes, your tuner should be able to explain atmospheric conditions relative to power output given that you're in Florida.

There's also way too many variables for anyone to provide any helpful information here. How about giving us more details like:

1. List of mods with full details (e.g. spark plug gap)
2. When was the last time you tested the ethanol content of your E85 source?
3. Was the battery disconnected for a prolonged time?
4. Did you perform a re-flash recently?
5. What are you doing to maintain good traction?
6. Anything else you can share...

Yes the problem is lack of power... It was a cooler night and lower DA as well... 6mph slower in 1/4 mile

NGK 97506 Gapped to .019. The battery may have been disconnected that week while the shop had it. the third log is the day after the slower runs at track, I reflashed my tune .

Traction is an issue since e85 tune. cup2s at 25 psi at the drag strip gets me 1.8 60fts

The fuel quality is the wild card. My local station test at 78 % . I stopped at the turnpike shell that night for the first and only time to put a couple of gallons in before track. I honestly thought it would actually be better quality than the racetrack by my house.

[FriedPiston]

Originally Posted by Mmvic

Yes the problem is lack of power... It was a cooler night and lower DA as well... 6mph slower in 1/4 mile

NGK 97506 Gapped to .019. The battery may have been disconnected that week while the shop had it. the third log is the day after the slower runs at track, I reflashed my tune .

Traction is an issue since e85 tune. cup2s at 25 psi at the drag strip gets me 1.8 60fts

The fuel quality is the wild card. My local station test at 78 % . I stopped at the turnpike shell that night for the first and only time to put a couple of gallons in before track. I honestly thought it would actually be better quality than the racetrack by my house.

1. A lot of people get fixated on Density Altitude (DA), and ambient temps, when what they need to focus on is Relative Humidity (RH).

High humidity = less oxygen

Oxygen is an oxidizer that helps increase combustion between fuel and fire. When the air being sucked in has high water molecule count, the internal combustion will not be at its optimal point.

2. If it's been a while since your last spark plugs change (10k miles or more), I'd recommend installing a new set and gap them to 0.018"

3. 1.8 60' won't net you the best or consistent times. It's time to move on to drag radials, as the PSC2s won't cut it at your car's power level.

4. The factory fuel system tend to max out at around E60 fuel mix, though, your ethanol content could use a higher concentration to make headroom for the increased ignition.

Bottom line: I highly doubt there's any issues with your car. You simply need to make adjustments based on a few little details. There's more to going fast than just getting a custom tune, and going for it. And the only way to get a true measurement for degraded performance is to establish a baseline, through a dyno (Dynojet preferred) or 60-130mph runs.

[Brasko]

Still think that's a great E/T. If you're M was running any better you'd definitely be in the 10's.

Are the DP's cat-less?

[papasmurf_m3]

Did you retune after catless midpipe? Hope you get resolved! I would be concerned too but with drag racing and modding there are just so many variables.

[cbrtrx]

By looking at the fuel trims and the timing I'd say poor quality E85. Maf count is pretty low as well, car isn't making very much power. I'm not surprised it trapped low.

Try different fuel and I'd put fresh plugs in it.

[Mmvic]

Originally Posted by cbrtrx

By looking at the fuel trims and the timing I'd say poor quality E85. Maf count is pretty low as well, car isn't making very much power. I'm not surprised it trapped low.

Try different fuel and I'd put fresh plugs in it.

Originally Posted by Brasko

Still think that's a great E/T. If you're M was running any better you'd definitely be in the 10's.

Are the DP's cat-less?

Yeah ssr catless DPS

Originally Posted by AlphaPro_F80

Did you retune after catless midpipe? Hope you get resolved! I would be concerned too but with drag racing and modding there are just so many variables.

thanks! getting a revision soon for catless midpipe

Originally Posted by nars3000

1. A lot of people get fixated on Density Altitude (DA), and ambient temps, when what they need to focus on is Relative Humidity (RH).

High humidity = less oxygen

Oxygen is an oxidizer that helps increase combustion between fuel and fire. When the air being sucked in has high water molecule count, the internal combustion will not be at its optimal point.

2. If it's been a while since your last spark plugs change (10k miles or more), I'd recommend installing a new set and gap them to 0.018"

3. 1.8 60' won't net you the best or consistent times. It's time to move on to drag radials, as the PSC2s won't cut it at your car's power level.

4. The factory fuel system tend to max out at around E60 fuel mix, though, your ethanol content could use a higher concentration to make headroom for the increased ignition.

Bottom line: I highly doubt there's any issues with your car. You simply need to make adjustments based on a few little details. There's more to going fast than just getting a custom tune, and going for it. And the only way to get a true measurement for degraded performance is to establish a baseline, through a dyno (Dynojet preferred) or 60-130mph runs.

Originally Posted by cbrtrx

By looking at the fuel trims and the timing I'd say poor quality E85. Maf count is pretty low as well, car isn't making very much power. I'm not surprised it trapped low.

Try different fuel and I'd put fresh plugs in it.

Your right on people getting fixated on da, what I was trying to say it was a cooler, less humid night than the previous time.
Tuner just got back to me and noticed high iat. Need to check intercooler level....
edit* just checked intercooler level only needed a splash. what else could cause iats to be though the roof?!?

[FriedPiston]

Originally Posted by Mmvic

Tuner just got back to me and noticed high iat. Need to check intercooler level....
edit* just checked intercooler level only needed a splash. what else could cause iats to be though the roof?!?

For the first log, Ambient temps were recorded at 77* and peak IAT was around 102* -- in other words, not high at all.

Did your tuner mention anything about the knock detected?

[climax_e92]

That might have been me... spun mine a few weeks ago. Just got back last night. my plugs are gapped to .021 . Did you test the e85 content? just get one from amazon its like $20

[FriedPiston]

Originally Posted by climax_e92

Did you test the e85 content? just get one from amazon its like $20

I highly recommend the Fuel-It Ethanol Content Tester kit over any random product on Amazon and eBay.

https://www.fuel-it.com/ethanol-content-tester/

[Mmvic]

Originally Posted by climax_e92

That might have been me... spun mine a few weeks ago. Just got back last night. my plugs are gapped to .021 . Did you test the e85 content? just get one from amazon its like $20

Originally Posted by nars3000

For the first log, Ambient temps were recorded at 77* and peak IAT was around 102* -- in other words, not high at all.

Did your tuner mention anything about the knock detected?

he didn't...

Originally Posted by climax_e92

That might have been me... spun mine a few weeks ago. Just got back last night. my plugs are gapped to .021 . Did you test the e85 content? just get one from amazon its like $20

I have tester, 78 percent

[ssgm1x]

Your IAT's at start of run were 125 and end was 183.
You possibly have a intercooler issue....
Maybe they didnt Bleed and Prime the Air to Water intercooler system when they were done....
IAT's should only go up about 10-12 degrees in a WOT run from 1-4th gear.
(2nd link down from the Original post, its the long run at the end of log, look at IAT's)

[FriedPiston]

Originally Posted by ssgm1x

Your IAT's at start of run were 125 and end was 183.
You have a cooling issue....
Maybe they didnt Bleed and Prime the coolant system when they were done....
(2nd link down from the Original post, its the long run at the end of log, look at IAT's)

Just to piggyback on this, IAT = Intake Air Temp which has more to do with heat soak, as the engine generates more heat under load. This often impacts exposed air intake systems with no intake boxes.

Although, it's also worth noting that the Coolant Temps were in the 200* at certain points, which is indeed hotter than usual.

So follow up questions for OP:

1. Are you running an aftermarket intake system?

2. Do you not run in Sport+ Engine mode?

[cbrtrx]

The cars targeted a pretty low hpfp psi for full E85 and the trims are still pulling out quite a bit. The ethanol content in your fuel was poor.

Possibly the midpipe is rattling somewhere as well?

As others have mentioned the aits are high as well after a pull.

[climax_e92]

Originally Posted by nars3000

I highly recommend the Fuel-It Ethanol Content Tester kit over any random product on Amazon and eBay.

https://www.fuel-it.com/ethanol-content-tester/

Wow that's actually pretty cool. Thanks for the link! I'll definitely pick one up

[overlook637]

Originally Posted by Mmvic

e85 tune with downpipes, catback, and plugs.

Ran great, consistent 11.1 @ 129mph 1/4 mile runs...
link to 3rd gear pulls

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5c735390c090c65b0625f8e0

Had this setup for 600-800 miles no problems.

Decided to get maxpsi hub installed and an AA midpipe while the shop had it. I picked a shop that has done a crank hub fix before and has a great reputation.
I ran 11.3@122mph.... 6 mph slower

Was the cam timing correctly set when the hub was installed?

[Mmvic]

Originally Posted by overlook637

Was the cam timing correctly set when the hub was installed?

Originally Posted by nars3000

Just to piggyback on this, IAT = Intake Air Temp which has more to do with heat soak, as the engine generates more heat under load. This often impacts exposed air intake systems with no intake boxes.

Although, it's also worth noting that the Coolant Temps were in the 200* at certain points, which is indeed hotter than usual.

So follow up questions for OP:

1. Are you running an aftermarket intake system?

2. Do you not run in Sport+ Engine mode?

just drop in filters, and yes sport +

Originally Posted by cbrtrx

The cars targeted a pretty low hpfp psi for full E85 and the trims are still pulling out quite a bit. The ethanol content in your fuel was poor.

Possibly the midpipe is rattling somewhere as well?

As others have mentioned the aits are high as well after a pull.

you are a smart dude! midpipe was rattling!

Originally Posted by overlook637

Was the cam timing correctly set when the hub was installed?

that was the first thing I asked the installer, he said it would have shown right away if it wasn't.


thanks for all the advice everyone!

the shop drove the car today and iats were back to normal, so maybe the coolant system had a burp in it?!?

[johnnyredgtr]

Originally Posted by nars3000

What issue are you referring to exactly? The car being slow? If yes, your tuner should be able to explain atmospheric conditions relative to power output given that you're in Florida.

There's also way too many variables for anyone to provide any helpful information here. How about giving us more details like:

1. List of mods with full details (e.g. spark plug gap)
2. When was the last time you tested the ethanol content of your E85 source?
3. Was the battery disconnected for a prolonged time?
4. Did you perform a re-flash recently?
5. What are you doing to maintain good traction?
6. Anything else you can share...

Hey nars3000, not my post but i have to say that you got some knowledge man, very very helpful with others. Not trying to be @#$% but really appreciated your knowledge and the way you answer doubts of other forum members.