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      01-05-2019, 05:53 PM   #1
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Engine break in

What mileage does engine completely break in .... after hitting 5K miles and an oil change i feel the engine has freed up a bit , does it break free completely at 10K?
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      01-05-2019, 05:57 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boss2k View Post
What mileage does engine completely break in .... after hitting 5K miles and an oil change i feel the engine has freed up a bit , does it break free completely at 10K?
It's broken in at the factory before you even get your car
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      01-05-2019, 08:28 PM   #3
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So you are saying the miles you take delivery of the car say 5 or 10 miles is not actually that miles if its broken at factory before delivery because there is some engine break in that happens with miles driven on a brand new engine

Last edited by boss2k; 01-05-2019 at 09:02 PM..
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      01-05-2019, 09:05 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boss2k View Post
So you are saying the miles you take delivery of the car say 5 or 10 miles is not actually that miles if its broken at factory before delivery because there is some engine break that happens with miles driven
I'm saying ALL ENGINES are run in (floored, maxed out etc etc........)at the factory before they are installed into the vehicles.

This is why I think break in restrictions are COMPLETE bullshit
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      01-05-2019, 10:01 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
I'm saying ALL ENGINES are run in (floored, maxed out etc etc........)at the factory before they are installed into the vehicles.

This is why I think break in restrictions are COMPLETE bullshit
Interesting. Not doubting, but anything to support this claim?
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      01-05-2019, 10:08 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DataNerd View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
I'm saying ALL ENGINES are run in (floored, maxed out etc etc........)at the factory before they are installed into the vehicles.

This is why I think break in restrictions are COMPLETE bullshit
Interesting. Not doubting, but anything to support this claim?
I don't feel like searching the internet and different threads for the "proof" that BMW and I'm sure many other manufacturers max out their engines before being placed in the vehicles.

Here is a post from another poster that I saved for just these sort of circumstances



Car break in


QUOTE
I am an engineer with one of largest manufacturers of engines in the world, a company that sells billions of dollars of them every year. Items #1 and #2 are terribly incorrect.

EVERY engine that we manufacture goes from assembly into a test cell where it is started, warmed up, and sent immediately to 100% full load. Yes, it is "floored."

When we do engine testing, even prototype engines are assembled (mostly with Lubriplate 105), warmed up with standard petroleum oil, and immediately go to full rated horsepower while the dyno pulls them down from rated HP to the lowest RPM of torque peak.

Almost every automotive manufacturer follows this practice as well. So do motorcycle manufacturers. I personally saw new Ducatis going off the line in Bologna into a chassis dyno where they were started, briefly warmed, and then immediate run up AT FULL LOAD all the way to redline.

Why do they do this?

1) The freshly honed/machined surfaces can only do an ideal break-in when they are, in fact, fresh. Once the asperities and surfaces begin to smooth, they lose the ability to mate to each other properly.

2) It prevents customer complaints of high oil consumption and poor MPG because customers tend to follow outdated, bad advice like babying a new engine.


Back when machining and honing technology was far less advanced, and tolerances could not be held as well, there was perhaps some validity to babying a new engine. But this advice is woefully out of date.

Instead, the best thing you can for a new engine is:
1) Warm it up to full operating temperature
2) Do several full throttle runs that stop well short of redline
3) Idle the engine to let it cool a bit
4) Repeat steps 2&3 several times
5) Change the oil and filter.

Done.

By and large, new engines require almost no break in at all because of the "abuse" they suffer at the factory. That's why they can ship new cars like Corvettes with Mobil 1 from the factory. No need to worry about the syntehtic preventing break-in when the engine is already broken in before installed in the car.
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      01-05-2019, 10:18 PM   #7
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@///M4ster Yoda thanks for the info!
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      01-06-2019, 06:53 PM   #8
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@///M4ster Yoda thanks for the info!
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      01-06-2019, 07:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
I don't feel like searching the internet and different threads for the "proof" that BMW and I'm sure many other manufacturers max out their engines before being placed in the vehicles.

Here is a post from another poster that I saved for just these sort of circumstances



Car break in


QUOTE
I am an engineer with one of largest manufacturers of engines in the world, a company that sells billions of dollars of them every year. Items #1 and #2 are terribly incorrect.

EVERY engine that we manufacture goes from assembly into a test cell where it is started, warmed up, and sent immediately to 100% full load. Yes, it is "floored."

When we do engine testing, even prototype engines are assembled (mostly with Lubriplate 105), warmed up with standard petroleum oil, and immediately go to full rated horsepower while the dyno pulls them down from rated HP to the lowest RPM of torque peak.

Almost every automotive manufacturer follows this practice as well. So do motorcycle manufacturers. I personally saw new Ducatis going off the line in Bologna into a chassis dyno where they were started, briefly warmed, and then immediate run up AT FULL LOAD all the way to redline.

Why do they do this?

1) The freshly honed/machined surfaces can only do an ideal break-in when they are, in fact, fresh. Once the asperities and surfaces begin to smooth, they lose the ability to mate to each other properly.

2) It prevents customer complaints of high oil consumption and poor MPG because customers tend to follow outdated, bad advice like babying a new engine.


Back when machining and honing technology was far less advanced, and tolerances could not be held as well, there was perhaps some validity to babying a new engine. But this advice is woefully out of date.

Instead, the best thing you can for a new engine is:
1) Warm it up to full operating temperature
2) Do several full throttle runs that stop well short of redline
3) Idle the engine to let it cool a bit
4) Repeat steps 2&3 several times
5) Change the oil and filter.

Done.

By and large, new engines require almost no break in at all because of the "abuse" they suffer at the factory. That's why they can ship new cars like Corvettes with Mobil 1 from the factory. No need to worry about the syntehtic preventing break-in when the engine is already broken in before installed in the car.
Appreciate the info, so the owners manual is wrong?
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      01-06-2019, 08:02 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
I don't feel like searching the internet and different threads for the "proof" that BMW and I'm sure many other manufacturers max out their engines before being placed in the vehicles.

Here is a post from another poster that I saved for just these sort of circumstances
Just giving credit where credit is due.

Link to original post: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...3#post22139303

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieutenant Biscuits View Post
The quote below was taken from the youtube comments on the video posted by M2LA. I guess people should do whatever they think is the right thing to do, as there are conflicting opinions on here and on tinternet.
Quote:
I am an engineer with one of largest manufacturers of engines in the world, a company that sells billions of dollars of them every year. Items #1 and #2 are terribly incorrect.

EVERY engine that we manufacture goes from assembly into a test cell where it is started, warmed up, and sent immediately to 100% full load. Yes, it is "floored."

When we do engine testing, even prototype engines are assembled (mostly with Lubriplate 105), warmed up with standard petroleum oil, and immediately go to full rated horsepower while the dyno pulls them down from rated HP to the lowest RPM of torque peak.

Almost every automotive manufacturer follows this practice as well. So do motorcycle manufacturers. I personally saw new Ducatis going off the line in Bologna into a chassis dyno where they were started, briefly warmed, and then immediate run up AT FULL LOAD all the way to redline.

Why do they do this?

1) The freshly honed/machined surfaces can only do an ideal break-in when they are, in fact, fresh. Once the asperities and surfaces begin to smooth, they lose the ability to mate to each other properly.

2) It prevents customer complaints of high oil consumption and poor MPG because customers tend to follow outdated, bad advice like babying a new engine.


Back when machining and honing technology was far less advanced, and tolerances could not be held as well, there was perhaps some validity to babying a new engine. But this advice is woefully out of date.

Instead, the best thing you can for a new engine is:
1) Warm it up to full operating temperature
2) Do several full throttle runs that stop well short of redline
3) Idle the engine to let it cool a bit
4) Repeat steps 2&3 several times
5) Change the oil and filter.

Done.

By and large, new engines require almost no break in at all because of the "abuse" they suffer at the factory. That's why they can ship new cars like Corvettes with Mobil 1 from the factory. No need to worry about the syntehtic preventing break-in when the engine is already broken in before installed in the car.

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      01-06-2019, 08:16 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boss2k View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
I don't feel like searching the internet and different threads for the "proof" that BMW and I'm sure many other manufacturers max out their engines before being placed in the vehicles.

Here is a post from another poster that I saved for just these sort of circumstances



Car break in


QUOTE
I am an engineer with one of largest manufacturers of engines in the world, a company that sells billions of dollars of them every year. Items #1 and #2 are terribly incorrect.

EVERY engine that we manufacture goes from assembly into a test cell where it is started, warmed up, and sent immediately to 100% full load. Yes, it is "floored."

When we do engine testing, even prototype engines are assembled (mostly with Lubriplate 105), warmed up with standard petroleum oil, and immediately go to full rated horsepower while the dyno pulls them down from rated HP to the lowest RPM of torque peak.

Almost every automotive manufacturer follows this practice as well. So do motorcycle manufacturers. I personally saw new Ducatis going off the line in Bologna into a chassis dyno where they were started, briefly warmed, and then immediate run up AT FULL LOAD all the way to redline.

Why do they do this?

1) The freshly honed/machined surfaces can only do an ideal break-in when they are, in fact, fresh. Once the asperities and surfaces begin to smooth, they lose the ability to mate to each other properly.

2) It prevents customer complaints of high oil consumption and poor MPG because customers tend to follow outdated, bad advice like babying a new engine.


Back when machining and honing technology was far less advanced, and tolerances could not be held as well, there was perhaps some validity to babying a new engine. But this advice is woefully out of date.

Instead, the best thing you can for a new engine is:
1) Warm it up to full operating temperature
2) Do several full throttle runs that stop well short of redline
3) Idle the engine to let it cool a bit
4) Repeat steps 2&3 several times
5) Change the oil and filter.

Done.

By and large, new engines require almost no break in at all because of the "abuse" they suffer at the factory. That's why they can ship new cars like Corvettes with Mobil 1 from the factory. No need to worry about the syntehtic preventing break-in when the engine is already broken in before installed in the car.
Appreciate the info, so the owners manual is wrong?
The owners manual is written by lawyers
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      01-06-2019, 08:18 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nars3000 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
I don't feel like searching the internet and different threads for the "proof" that BMW and I'm sure many other manufacturers max out their engines before being placed in the vehicles.

Here is a post from another poster that I saved for just these sort of circumstances
Just giving credit where credit is due.

Link to original post: https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...3#post22139303

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieutenant Biscuits View Post
The quote below was taken from the youtube comments on the video posted by M2LA. I guess people should do whatever they think is the right thing to do, as there are conflicting opinions on here and on tinternet.
Quote:
I am an engineer with one of largest manufacturers of engines in the world, a company that sells billions of dollars of them every year. Items #1 and #2 are terribly incorrect.

EVERY engine that we manufacture goes from assembly into a test cell where it is started, warmed up, and sent immediately to 100% full load. Yes, it is "floored."

When we do engine testing, even prototype engines are assembled (mostly with Lubriplate 105), warmed up with standard petroleum oil, and immediately go to full rated horsepower while the dyno pulls them down from rated HP to the lowest RPM of torque peak.

Almost every automotive manufacturer follows this practice as well. So do motorcycle manufacturers. I personally saw new Ducatis going off the line in Bologna into a chassis dyno where they were started, briefly warmed, and then immediate run up AT FULL LOAD all the way to redline.

Why do they do this?

1) The freshly honed/machined surfaces can only do an ideal break-in when they are, in fact, fresh. Once the asperities and surfaces begin to smooth, they lose the ability to mate to each other properly.

2) It prevents customer complaints of high oil consumption and poor MPG because customers tend to follow outdated, bad advice like babying a new engine.


Back when machining and honing technology was far less advanced, and tolerances could not be held as well, there was perhaps some validity to babying a new engine. But this advice is woefully out of date.

Instead, the best thing you can for a new engine is:
1) Warm it up to full operating temperature
2) Do several full throttle runs that stop well short of redline
3) Idle the engine to let it cool a bit
4) Repeat steps 2&3 several times
5) Change the oil and filter.

Done.

By and large, new engines require almost no break in at all because of the "abuse" they suffer at the factory. That's why they can ship new cars like Corvettes with Mobil 1 from the factory. No need to worry about the syntehtic preventing break-in when the engine is already broken in before installed in the car.

Nice. Thanks. I should have saved the source when I saved it.
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      01-06-2019, 09:13 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by boss2k View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
I don't feel like searching the internet and different threads for the "proof" that BMW and I'm sure many other manufacturers max out their engines before being placed in the vehicles.

Here is a post from another poster that I saved for just these sort of circumstances



Car break in


QUOTE
I am an engineer with one of largest manufacturers of engines in the world, a company that sells billions of dollars of them every year. Items #1 and #2 are terribly incorrect.

EVERY engine that we manufacture goes from assembly into a test cell where it is started, warmed up, and sent immediately to 100% full load. Yes, it is "floored."

When we do engine testing, even prototype engines are assembled (mostly with Lubriplate 105), warmed up with standard petroleum oil, and immediately go to full rated horsepower while the dyno pulls them down from rated HP to the lowest RPM of torque peak.

Almost every automotive manufacturer follows this practice as well. So do motorcycle manufacturers. I personally saw new Ducatis going off the line in Bologna into a chassis dyno where they were started, briefly warmed, and then immediate run up AT FULL LOAD all the way to redline.

Why do they do this?

1) The freshly honed/machined surfaces can only do an ideal break-in when they are, in fact, fresh. Once the asperities and surfaces begin to smooth, they lose the ability to mate to each other properly.

2) It prevents customer complaints of high oil consumption and poor MPG because customers tend to follow outdated, bad advice like babying a new engine.


Back when machining and honing technology was far less advanced, and tolerances could not be held as well, there was perhaps some validity to babying a new engine. But this advice is woefully out of date.

Instead, the best thing you can for a new engine is:
1) Warm it up to full operating temperature
2) Do several full throttle runs that stop well short of redline
3) Idle the engine to let it cool a bit
4) Repeat steps 2&3 several times
5) Change the oil and filter.

Done.

By and large, new engines require almost no break in at all because of the "abuse" they suffer at the factory. That's why they can ship new cars like Corvettes with Mobil 1 from the factory. No need to worry about the syntehtic preventing break-in when the engine is already broken in before installed in the car.
Appreciate the info, so the owners manual is wrong?
The owners manual is written by lawyers
What do lawyers have to do with prescribing a break in procedure? I see this point echoed a lot and it makes no sense to me.

On another note, I find it hard to believe that BMW (and countless other manufacturers of performance vehicles) would go out of its way to specify a break in protocol if there was absolutely no merit to it and in fact the complete opposite was true.
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      01-07-2019, 08:30 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by boss2k View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
I don't feel like searching the internet and different threads for the "proof" that BMW and I'm sure many other manufacturers max out their engines before being placed in the vehicles.

Here is a post from another poster that I saved for just these sort of circumstances



Car break in


QUOTE
I am an engineer with one of largest manufacturers of engines in the world, a company that sells billions of dollars of them every year. Items #1 and #2 are terribly incorrect.

EVERY engine that we manufacture goes from assembly into a test cell where it is started, warmed up, and sent immediately to 100% full load. Yes, it is "floored."

When we do engine testing, even prototype engines are assembled (mostly with Lubriplate 105), warmed up with standard petroleum oil, and immediately go to full rated horsepower while the dyno pulls them down from rated HP to the lowest RPM of torque peak.

Almost every automotive manufacturer follows this practice as well. So do motorcycle manufacturers. I personally saw new Ducatis going off the line in Bologna into a chassis dyno where they were started, briefly warmed, and then immediate run up AT FULL LOAD all the way to redline.

Why do they do this?

1) The freshly honed/machined surfaces can only do an ideal break-in when they are, in fact, fresh. Once the asperities and surfaces begin to smooth, they lose the ability to mate to each other properly.

2) It prevents customer complaints of high oil consumption and poor MPG because customers tend to follow outdated, bad advice like babying a new engine.


Back when machining and honing technology was far less advanced, and tolerances could not be held as well, there was perhaps some validity to babying a new engine. But this advice is woefully out of date.

Instead, the best thing you can for a new engine is:
1) Warm it up to full operating temperature
2) Do several full throttle runs that stop well short of redline
3) Idle the engine to let it cool a bit
4) Repeat steps 2&3 several times
5) Change the oil and filter.

Done.

By and large, new engines require almost no break in at all because of the "abuse" they suffer at the factory. That's why they can ship new cars like Corvettes with Mobil 1 from the factory. No need to worry about the syntehtic preventing break-in when the engine is already broken in before installed in the car.
Appreciate the info, so the owners manual is wrong?
The owners manual is written by lawyers
What do lawyers have to do with prescribing a break in procedure? I see this point echoed a lot and it makes no sense to me.

On another note, I find it hard to believe that BMW (and countless other manufacturers of performance vehicles) would go out of its way to specify a break in protocol if there was absolutely no merit to it and in fact the complete opposite was true.
Some feel that the manufactures and their lawyers put these "recommendations" in place so people will get more comfortable driving their brand new vehicles. You know the handling, braking etc etc.... of a new car.

I can see the validity in getting used to brake feel and the handling of a new car. What I don't understand is BS breakin protocol for an engine that is already broken in before it even enters the vehicle.

Do you believe everything your told/read? I sure don't. Plenty of ulterior motives out there.

I'm gonna continue to disregard this BS. We are doing ED again this spring on another ///M4 and will blast out of the Welt onto the Autobahn immediately.

You only live once
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      01-07-2019, 09:33 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
Some feel that the manufactures and their lawyers put these "recommendations" in place so people will get more comfortable driving their brand new vehicles. You know the handling, braking etc etc.... of a new car.

I can see the validity in getting used to brake feel and the handling of a new car. What I don't understand is BS breakin protocol for an engine that is already broken in before it even enters the vehicle.

Do you believe everything your told/read? I sure don't. Plenty of ulterior motives out there.

I'm gonna continue to disregard this BS. We are doing ED again this spring on another ///M4 and will blast out of the Welt onto the Autobahn immediately.

You only live once
I still dont see how prescribing a break in procedure sets any sort of legal precedent or absolves BMW of any legal liability. What could someone sue BMW for (with merit) in regards to a break in procedure, or lack thereof?

As for "believing everything I am told/read" , of course not but I dont think this is an instance of subjective opinion left open for interpretation. If following the break in procedure is absolutely BS as you believe it is, why would BMW go out of its way to detail out certain protocol to be followed? And why would so many other manufacturers? Do you really think they are putting this information in the manual just to mess with us consumers or that perhaps they truly believe this is the best way to ensure the engine performs up to its intended standards?

I am mainly playing devils advocate here and I am not suggesting that deviating from BMWs prescribed procedures will somehow make the car run like junk. But I believe they put those instructions in there for a reason (and because of some fictitious legal liability).
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      01-07-2019, 01:32 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
I still dont see how prescribing a break in procedure sets any sort of legal precedent or absolves BMW of any legal liability. What could someone sue BMW for (with merit) in regards to a break in procedure, or lack thereof?
Customer: My car is sucking down 2 liters of oil per 1000km!
BMW: Did you follow the break-in procedure from the manual?
Customer: No...


If it does anything or not, it's an out for BMW. Enough that they log the data for the first 2000km, see you exceeded 5500rpm, see you exceeded 170kph etc.

That being said - other parts need breaking in. The tires, the brakes, the diff, even the speakers.
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      01-07-2019, 03:06 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cionide View Post
Customer: My car is sucking down 2 liters of oil per 1000km!
BMW: Did you follow the break-in procedure from the manual?
Customer: No...


If it does anything or not, it's an out for BMW. Enough that they log the data for the first 2000km, see you exceeded 5500rpm, see you exceeded 170kph etc.

That being said - other parts need breaking in. The tires, the brakes, the diff, even the speakers.
Your example isnt a legal issue as much as a maintenance issue. You are implying that BMW may deny some sort of service request if they determine that you did not follow proper care of your vehicle which seems like common sense to me.
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      01-07-2019, 03:29 PM   #18
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I drive all my new cars like I stole it from day 1. For some reason my oil consumption is much less compared to some of my buddies who did the "soft break-in".
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      01-07-2019, 03:37 PM   #19
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Flat out from the first day, as any European Delivery customer does
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      01-07-2019, 03:50 PM   #20
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Folks

To keep this thread as per original subject i am trying to find out whether engine breaks in at periodic intervals (miles) or already broken to its max from day1, this is not a thread where we will discuss whether one has followed the BMW Recommended break in procedure.
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      01-07-2019, 04:42 PM   #21
///M4ster Yoda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boss2k View Post
Folks

To keep this thread as per original subject i am trying to find out whether engine breaks in at periodic intervals (miles) or already broken to its max from day1, this is not a thread where we will discuss whether one has followed the BMW Recommended break in procedure.
Max day 1

/thread
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      01-07-2019, 06:22 PM   #22
dezzracer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
What do lawyers have to do with prescribing a break in procedure? I see this point echoed a lot and it makes no sense to me.

On another note, I find it hard to believe that BMW (and countless other manufacturers of performance vehicles) would go out of its way to specify a break in protocol if there was absolutely no merit to it and in fact the complete opposite was true.
Apparently Yoda and others here on Bimmer post know much much more than BMW engineers, Master techs, Service managers and advisors. Lucky them. I’m not that inclined so Im going to follow the owners manual if for nothing else to keep my warranty intact as over revs, speed limits , and money shifts are all data logged.
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