Ride quality comparison to 981 Cayman GTS

[b1st]

I commute through parts of Westlake/Echo Park/Silverlake and the roads are quite sh*tty. My M4's ride quality has been bothering me a lot lately: tire drone is one thing but the bumps/pot holes physically hurt me and I cringe a lot. I have non-competition, 18" wheels, and drive the suspension in comfort mode through these parts.

So I've been looking to get a comfy DD (an SUV perhaps) and get a manual sports car. Drove the 2015 Cayman GTS w 20" wheels on a whim yesterday and I was surprised that the ride quality in that car was more comfortable than in my M4! I still can't believe it. Can anyone else confirm this? What about our cars that makes the ride so rough even in the comfort setting? These don't even have run-flats. Or am I just getting old/crazy?

[Thescout13]

Did you drive it on the same roads? PASM is good (if it has it) but not that good. That would be the true test. I remember getting my Camaro as a DD with magnetic shocks and being surprised at how "smooth" it was compared to my previous car. When I took it home and drove it on the same streets I hated before, it felt the same, if not worse. Now a Camaro doesn't equal a Porsche, but my point is driving on the same roads matter.

And now the child in me says Porsche!

[b1st]

Very good point and, yes, I drove both on the same roads.

One thing that just occurred to after writing this was to check my tire pressure. The geniuses at the local BMW put 36 psi all around. This happened a couple month ago and it recently started to bother me a lot. Brought them down to 32 cold (34 hot) and they are much better. But I still think the Porsche had slightly better ride. It's not as dramatic as before and now I'm think I can stick it out until the end of my lease.

[RIP1981]

Hi,

my 911 991 with PASM also rides a bit more comfy than the BMW M3. I was quite surprised. It depends on the kind of bumps though. Some of them the BMW handles better.

It is a bit sad that the M3 as a saloon can‘t beat a sportscar at least in this chapter :-(

Perhaps Alpina?

Cheers
RIP

[JoeFromPA]

Drove a new-ish 987 cayman S with PASM on 20" wheels and compared it to my 2015 m3 with electronic damping and 18" wheels.

The Cayman S was alot more comfortable going over significantly broken pavement.

It startled me, frankly. I expected alot more chassis upsetting over this one section that I drive on all the time.

[blschaefer1]

I had a '14 981 Cayman S with PASM and 20" wheels. Ride quality was good for a car with it's handling capabilities, but I don't feel it was better than the M4 as a daily driver with the M4 suspension set to Comfort mode. My M4 had 19's.

With PASM set to Sport Plus and M4 set to Sport +, the M4 was definitely firmer. So bottom line, the M4 had a wider range adjustability in my opinion.

Big differences between the 981 and M4 as a daily is noise and ingress/egress. 981 is much louder inside the cabin, which is a good and bad thing depending on perspective. The cabin is small and the engine is obviously right behind you head which is great when you are canyon carving or having fun, but can get old when cruising around town or on the highway. Road noise and tire roar is also higher on the 981, probably due again to small cabin and less soundproofing. M4 sits taller, so for my aging back it was easier to get in and out of.

[nicknaz]

How much do you think comes from the lack of bushings for the rear subframe and overall rigidity of the car?

Have you tried an F80 with updated electric damper software, or with passive suspension?

I've driven my F80 with 18s and passive suspension on some pretty crap roads and it was always very comfy and well controlled

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by RIP1981

Hi,

my 911 991 with PASM also rides a bit more comfy than the BMW M3. I was quite surprised. It depends on the kind of bumps though. Some of them the BMW handles better.

It is a bit sad that the M3 as a saloon can‘t beat a sportscar at least in this chapter :-(

Perhaps Alpina?

Cheers
RIP

Same here - Porsche on 20” wheels rides better than an M3/4 on 18/19s but I have never encountered a bump or pavement where the 911 didn’t handle it with more poise and fluent characteristics. It comes down to the better suspension components and tuning. You get what you pay for.
I don’t think it’s a surprise that sports cars have surpassed sedans at all. The M sedans and AMG stuff never really had great suspensions as far as comfort and have fallen way behind in that regard.

[Darth One]

I used to live close to Echo Park, I wouldn't drive a Porsche down there for reasons that have nothing to do with the road quality

Although that was 15 years ago, mebbe it got gentrified since then

[Thescout13]

I may in the minority here, but if my car isn't creaking or trying to break my back on every bump, it feels too "neutered" for me. While I can appreciate a smooth Cadillac ride as a passenger, when I'm driving I want something more raw

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

I may in the minority here, but if my car isn't creaking or trying to break my back on every bump, it feels too "neutered" for me. While I can appreciate a smooth Cadillac ride as a passenger, when I'm driving I want something more raw

Try out an E89 Z435 with adaptive suspension and the stock 19 RFT and let me know what you think

My old car did a nice job feeling super stiff and sporty, but if you got down to it, the suspension tuning was just sh1t... wheel control was poor and tires would lose a lot of traction in mid corner bumps.

Not saying that's what's happening in the F80, but just wanted to point out that sometimes the stiffness is from ///marketing department, not ///motorsports department (and pretty sure there was an interview somewhere where an engineer explained E9x M3 sport+ suspension was locked into a suboptimal stiff setting to give customers the stiff ride they thought was sporty)

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Try out an E89 Z435 with adaptive suspension and the stock 19 RFT and let me know what you think

My old car did a nice job feeling super stiff and sporty, but if you got down to it, the suspension tuning was just sh1t... wheel control was poor and tires would lose a lot of traction in mid corner bumps.

Not saying that's what's happening in the F80, but just wanted to point out that sometimes the stiffness is from ///marketing department, not ///motorsports department (and pretty sure there was an interview somewhere where an engineer explained E9x M3 sport+ suspension was locked into a suboptimal stiff setting to give customers the stiff ride they thought was sporty)

Great point, and my comment may have been too crass, I meant a proper stiff suspension, not stiff for stiff's sake. Agreed.

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by tcharged

The truth is, BMW can't create a world class suspension. Porsche/Audi, American performance cars, etc offer incredible suspension setups. BMW can't balance between a harsh, back destroying system, and an overly soft Cadillac type system (as seen in standard 3 and 5 series).

Alright dude, what is with all the hating on BMW and staying on BMW forums? This is like the 20th thread where you just come in to BMW bash. We get it, you hate BMW, now go to the Camaro6 forum or your mustang forum or your Porsche forum or whatever, and bash there. At this point you are not even raising valid points your just attacking people, making vague generalizations of BMW's demise, and just hating on BMW indiscriminately. We get it, you hate it.

[swifty]

OP, have you tried or considered other suspensions. KW EDC version or Tractive.

Talk to members here who installed it to see if it has helped with the comfort. Also before you do that which iStep version are you on. Might want to try and upgrade to newest version after MP HAS kit came out as the reviews seem to state the new software seems to ride more comfortable.

[paliknight]

Originally Posted by tcharged

The truth is, BMW can’t create a world class suspension. Porsche/Audi, American performance cars, etc offer incredible suspension setups. BMW can’t balance between a harsh, back destroying system, and an overly soft Cadillac type system (as seen in standard 3 and 5 series).

Audi? LOL, you cant knock on M-cars suspensions then list Audi as a world class suspension developer.

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by tcharged

I'm not at all, I'm raising valid points. Argue my points, don't get mad at me. I have an F80 and I've owned 4 BM trouble you's - I can say what I want (and what most automotive publications agree with).

Have you driven a TT RS with magnetic ride? Have you ever driven a mag ride from GM's C7 or from the ATS-V? They all shame BMW, easily.

I know it wasn't directed to me, but I have driven all three cars. Again, my DD is a Camaro SS with the exact same Mag ride system. BMW's is marginally better. Again what's your point? That's your subjective opinion. Just like the above is mine.

I am the first to admit that these cars have downsides, things that could be better, etc. and that even some other manufactures do certain things better. But this bullshit of "bmw is a shame" and that these other cars "crush" BMW has no basis in reality. At the limit these cars are within tenths of each other. Nothing is crushing nothing or putting others to shame.

And I argue against your points in other threads. Who has time to argue with a broken record?

So you are the new resident hater... good for you.

[Darth One]

The F generation is very far from a perfect car or the best bmw, but its suspension is not its weak point. Are you sure you didn't mean to type "exhaust note"?

Taking it further, bmw has been the benchmark for sports sedan suspensions for most or all of the lives of the people on this forum.

[b1st]

Sorry for the late reply. I couldn't find this post... didn't realize it got moved.

I've driven my buddy's M4 w passive suspension on 19" That was far harsher than mine in Comfort. I remember one of the BMW engineers saying that the passive suspension (non-competition/CS) is somewhere between Sport and Sport+. I haven't considered any other suspension setup yet. I was going to research on it but then figured out that my tires had too much pressure. It's much better now and I can live with it until the lease end, which is a yr from now. When I'm on reasonable freeway, I set my suspension to Sport and the ride is fine. On Angeles Crest Hwy, I put it in Sport+ and get down to business

My main point is that I was so surprised that the extra low extra light, 981 Cayman GTS w 20" rode more comfy than the M4 in comfort mode with 18". I expected a very harsh ride. Once I put the Porsche in Sport+, tho, that thing flopped all over the bumps as expected. I've known that 911s had better ride than the M because it's catered to a higher market and to mostly older people but the Cayman?

This is my 5th BMW and I've loved all of them. But, after experiencing the Cayman, I think my next car will be a Cayman (not sure if it'll be 981 or 718) and a cheap daily SUV. The steering on that car was out of this world and now I understand what the car magazines were talking about all these years... but then the torque curve on the M4 is amazing and I still love everything else about my car. My original dream car even tho the number increased by 1.

[Aapparition90]

Originally Posted by paliknight

Audi? LOL, you cant knock on M-cars suspensions then list Audi as a world class suspension developer.

my audi s6 was a beautiful ride man but I have heard from friends with audis in past that the ride was not sorted on the lower end models.Although completely unrelated the adaptive damper 330i soaks the bumps very well.

[paliknight]

Originally Posted by Aapparition90

my audi s6 was a beautiful ride man but I have heard from friends with audis in past that the ride was not sorted on the lower end models.Although completely unrelated the adaptive damper 330i soaks the bumps very well.

No I'm not knocking Audi cars. I really like their RS line. But I don't think they have better suspensions than M3/4s. I was just laughing because he was bashing M suspensions but lists a manufacturer that makes worse suspensions for the track.

[paliknight]

Originally Posted by tcharged

I'm not at all, I'm raising valid points. Argue my points, don't get mad at me. I have an F80 and I've owned 4 BM trouble you's - I can say what I want (and what most automotive publications agree with).

Have you driven a TT RS with magnetic ride? Have you ever driven a mag ride from GM's C7 or from the ATS-V? They all shame BMW, easily.

Yes I've driven all these cars. The C7 has no BMW competitor so that's not even relevant. Camaros have a great suspension and great performance but that's pretty much where it ends. Porsches are weekend cars. TTRS is more of an M2C competitor.

You're entitled to your opinion and if you don't like BMW that's fine too. But you are on a car enthusiast forum bashing cars that literally every forum member (including yourself) owns and has owned with unsubstantiated claims. Porsches, corvettes, camaros, mustangs, etc May have better suspensions and are better performing cars on the track, but that's what they were specifically designed for. Sure you can DD them, but life will suck having any one of those cars as your only car in the household.

F80/F90 cars were made to be the best of both worlds. Why else do they advertise them as family sedans that you can take to the track. You don't see corvettes advertised in that manner.

[Funf6cyl]

Originally Posted by paliknight

Yes I've driven all these cars. The C7 has no BMW competitor so that's not even relevant. Camaros have a great suspension and great performance but that's pretty much where it ends. Porsches are weekend cars. TTRS is more of an M2C competitor.

You're entitled to your opinion and if you don't like BMW that's fine too. But you are on a car enthusiast forum bashing cars that literally every forum member (including yourself) owns and has owned with unsubstantiated claims. Porsches, corvettes, camaros, mustangs, etc May have better suspensions and are better performing cars on the track, but that's what they were specifically designed for. Sure you can DD them, but life will suck having any one of those cars as your only car in the household.

F80/F90 cars were made to be the best of both worlds. Why else do they advertise them as family sedans that you can take to the track. You don't see corvettes advertised in that manner.

I don’t agree with you. Yes Porsche in particular has a better suspension for track driving, but they also have far better suspension for the street as well which is what makes them so good. Comfortable and ideal for each scenarios. BMW doesn’t get that right and IMO the American cars don’t quite get there either. The only cars I’ve been in that come close to Are Mclaren, but they aren’t nearly as well built.
I have both a 991.2S (Sport PASM) and a Macan GTS (and incoming 718 GTS) and anyone who has been in them (most are BMW drivers) marvel at how much better performance, handling and fantastic the ride is. My f80 m3 and f82 m4 were pretty miserable riding in any scenario other than glass smooth pavement. They simply jolted around whereas my 911 never gets phased. The contrast of how advanced the Porsche cars are is staggering to say the least.