Lease or buy used?

[Tzumi243]

I too am looking to buy a used M3 soon. I plan on owning the vehicle for about 3-4 years. Would most of you guys recommend leasing one for 2-3 years instead if i can get a lease deal around $750-780?

I was looking at this one recently, anyone have any thoughts on if this is a good deal or not?

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...&modelCode1=M3

Whats the typical depreciation value for these? 12% first year, 8-9% for years 2 and 3?

[HPIA4v2]

$780 before tax/license is possible on M3 "stripper" assuming base MF 0.00152 10k/yr and at least discount of $5K; else it won't happens. You can play around with https://leasehackr.com/calculator/ to see the numbers yourself

As far as used, 3-yr old M3 will have about 1 yr left in warranty, then you need to add maintenance for the next three and any repair for the next two. So unless you know someone good independent shop or wrench your own, add that cost into consideration.
This engine seems to have similar component to N55, so oil-filter cooler, oil filter housing gaskets will probably leak on the 4th year. Then valve cover gasket, then oil pan gasket in the 6th year or so. Been there done it, even N54 engine did it.

Not to mention water pump on BMW is always the Achilles heel, and it's just tight in that engine compartment, I am crossing my fingers that mechanical main water pump holds up to 90K miles

[Mgap65]

It doesn't have to be a Stripper to be able to get it at 780/month before taxes, my car is pretty much fully loaded, 84K MSRP and I'm at 790 before tax, however, I agree that a few factors have to come together for that to happen. In my case, 7K discount, 5k incentives, base MF, fees upfront/no down, during the holiday sale.

As far as buying used, there a few things you might want to take into account:
Buying from a reputable dealer, doing a PPI from other than the dealer you are purchasing from and maybe looking for a CPO vehicle with extended warranty. The repair costs out of warranty can really add up on these cars, unless like mentioned, you know someone with a reputable shop that has experience with these cars. Also, look out for M driving school cars, which have been showing up at different dealers, these are pushed hard on a daily basis and may show signs of early failure with time, it has been discussed many times in the forum.

[ngs]

Originally Posted by Mgap65

It doesn't have to be a Stripper to be able to get it at 780/month before taxes, my car is pretty much fully loaded, 84K MSRP and I'm at 790 before tax, however, I agree that a few factors have to come together for that to happen. In my case, 7K discount, 5k incentives, base MF, fees upfront/no down, during the holiday sale.

As far as buying used, there a few things you might want to take into account:
Buying from a reputable dealer, doing a PPI from other than the dealer you are purchasing from and maybe looking for a CPO vehicle with extended warranty. The repair costs out of warranty can really add up on these cars, unless like mentioned, you know someone with a reputable shop that has experience with these cars. Also, look out for M driving school cars, which have been showing up at different dealers, these are pushed hard on a daily basis and may show signs of early failure with time, it has been discussed many times in the forum.

what would be the best way to make sure the car was not used at M driving school?

[Mgap65]

They all have about the same characteristics:
1. Used car has the competition package.
2. Used car has carbon ceramic brakes.
2. Used car has around 5-7K on the odo.
3. Used car's CarFax states a leased car, and then shows the car was sold at a dealer auction and "Listed as a manufacturer vehicle" around the 5-7K mark.
4. DMV registration was in Woodcliff Lake, NJ. This is where BMW NA is located

I pulled this info from this thread:
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1403326
It has pages of information regarding these vehicles. Its not a given fact that these cars will break on you, however, I wouldn't want to own a "slightly used" car that has been used pretty much only on the track.

As for the lease, make sure you do your research before start contacting dealers, option your car or look for a car that has the spec you like, find out the invoice pricing and the BMW factory discounts available at the time. You can use this thread to begin with and see what other people are paying for their cars:
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1349306

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by Tzumi243

I too am looking to buy a used M3 soon. I plan on owning the vehicle for about 3-4 years. Would most of you guys recommend leasing one for 2-3 years instead if i can get a lease deal around $750-780?

I was looking at this one recently, anyone have any thoughts on if this is a good deal or not?

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...&modelCode1=M3

Whats the typical depreciation value for these? 12% first year, 8-9% for years 2 and 3?

If you are looking for the more economical route I would suggest buying a CPO vehicle. This way you will have warranty for the 3-4 years you plan to own the car and will likely come out ahead in terms of net spend when you sell it compared to leasing a new car over the same time frame.

[Draper]

If your budget is 780 /mo, then leasing is your only route.

How much car you can get for that amount is simply determined by how much effort you want to put into it.

[Bch53211]

Originally Posted by Mgap65

It doesn't have to be a Stripper to be able to get it at 780/month before taxes, my car is pretty much fully loaded, 84K MSRP and I'm at 790 before tax, however, I agree that a few factors have to come together for that to happen. In my case, 7K discount, 5k incentives, base MF, fees upfront/no down, during the holiday sale.

As far as buying used, there a few things you might want to take into account:
Buying from a reputable dealer, doing a PPI from other than the dealer you are purchasing from and maybe looking for a CPO vehicle with extended warranty. The repair costs out of warranty can really add up on these cars, unless like mentioned, you know someone with a reputable shop that has experience with these cars. Also, look out for M driving school cars, which have been showing up at different dealers, these are pushed hard on a daily basis and may show signs of early failure with time, it has been discussed many times in the forum.

Arent these quoted monthly lease payments only half of the story ? How much down at delivery?

[Mgap65]

Originally Posted by Bch53211

Arent these quoted monthly lease payments only half of the story ? How much down at delivery?

It all depends how much you want to put down, on my lease I paid 1800 on fees including first payment, that was it. If you put more money down, your payment will be lower.

[Bch53211]

Originally Posted by Mgap65

It all depends how much you want to put down, on my lease I paid 1800 on fees including first payment, that was it. If you put more money down, your payment will be lower.

Yes I realize that, thanks. So how on earth did you convince the dealer to take 7k off of sticker on top of the 5k in incentives? 12k below MSRP?!! I'm looking to keep my monthly payment lower, as it gets reflected on credit reports, so I'm willing to pay 4/5 k down. As I'll be looking to negotiate a deal soon, do you have any idea what I should expect to pay a month if they were willing to give me a similar deal? Also wondering if that kind of deal can only be had if dealer already has the car on lot, or is that conceivable for a factory ordered car? Thanks for your input.

[HPIA4v2]

Originally Posted by Bch53211

Yes I realize that, thanks. So how on earth did you convince the dealer to take 7k off of sticker on top of the 5k in incentives? 12k below MSRP?!! I'm looking to keep my monthly payment lower, as it gets reflected on credit reports, so I'm willing to pay 4/5 k down. As I'll be looking to negotiate a deal soon, do you have any idea what I should expect to pay a month if they were willing to give me a similar deal? Also wondering if that kind of deal can only be had if dealer already has the car on lot, or is that conceivable for a factory ordered car? Thanks for your input.

for M3, $7k off MSRP would be a unicorn cause that's below invoice.
The $5k incentive right now depends on your regional incentives as well as if you are eligible for M-groupe, USAA, ski-magazine etc (too many of these but many times they are not stackable).
I have a feeling, your monthly for 2014 M4 would be lower, due to higher MF, and lower RV starting 2018 MY

But always shoot for aggressive deal and go from there, I did and many times the CA just say sorry and no

[Bch53211]

Originally Posted by HPIA4v2

for M3, $7k off MSRP would be a unicorn cause that's below invoice.
The $5k incentive right now depends on your regional incentives as well as if you are eligible for M-groupe, USAA, ski-magazine etc (too many of these but many times they are not stackable).
I have a feeling, your monthly for 2014 M4 would be lower, due to higher MF, and lower RV starting 2018 MY

But always shoot for aggressive deal and go from there, I did and many times the CA just say sorry and no

Yeah I'm thinking is too good to be true as well. What is m groupe? Ski magazine discount? Man how do I find these?

[HPIA4v2]

Originally Posted by Bch53211

Yeah I'm thinking is too good to be true as well. What is m groupe? Ski magazine discount? Man how do I find these?

Just hang around this thread for a couple of days you'll learn the rope
https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...49306&page=124

as far as base MF (to make sure your CA is not pulling a fast one)
what other people paid recently
newer and current offers
etc

I'd go to www.bmwusa.com/offers to check for regional current incentives, punch in your zip code and you'll see.

I think m-grouppe is the same as fleet as far as rebate goes, but anyone can join while fleet only for certain employee of certain company

GL

[Mgap65]

Originally Posted by Bch53211

Yeah I'm thinking is too good to be true as well. What is m groupe? Ski magazine discount? Man how do I find these?

Its not impossible to find a good deal, its all about timing. The best deals went out during Nov-Dec, when dealerships needed to move units to complete their yearly quota, however, they also have monthly quotas they need to meet, try contacting different dealers and make them clear what you are looking for (car, options, price, money factor), you might need to expand your search radius to get better offers. As mentioned above, keep an eye on the 2018 offers thread, it helped me a lot when trying to figure out all the discounts and what the cars were selling for at the time.

[Draper]

Originally Posted by Bch53211

Arent these quoted monthly lease payments only half of the story ? How much down at delivery?

Never ever put money down on a lease.

Ever ever ever...

[Bch53211]

Originally Posted by Draper

Never ever put money down on a lease.

Ever ever ever...

Are you just going to make the statement or give a reason or two ? Isn't it a bit of a pay me now or pay me later situation? For every $1000 paid down the lease payment goes down roughly $30 per month, so over a 3 year lease that equals $1080. I realize some of that gets eaten by interest but the difference is negligible. Not to mention a high monthly payment can reflect negatively on your credit report.

[Bch53211]

Getting back on point, is m group in us ? How does one join / take advantage? I goggled m group bmw and couldn't find anything related to discounts, etc. The ski magazine thing seems like bs or at least long gone.

[Draper]

Originally Posted by Bch53211

Are you just going to make the statement or give a reason or two ? Isn't it a bit of a pay me now or pay me later situation? Not to mention a high monthly payment can reflect negatively on your credit report

Well since you asked, if everything goes as expected it's a wash, since you're paying the same amount anyways.

The flip side is if the car is totaled or stolen any money you put down is completely lost.

So overall, putting money down adds risk for no real benefit.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by Bch53211

Are you just going to make the statement or give a reason or two ? Isn't it a bit of a pay me now or pay me later situation? For every $1000 paid down the lease payment goes down roughly $30 per month, so over a 3 year lease that equals $1080. I realize some of that gets eaten by interest but the difference is negligible. Not to mention a high monthly payment can reflect negatively on your credit report.

What Draper said about having the car stolen/totaled is the main reason not to put money down as you can kiss the down payment goodbye. The beauty of leasing is the ability to mitigate downside risk, which you would unnecessarily add by putting money down.

[Bch53211]

Originally Posted by Draper

Well since you asked, if everything goes as expected it's a wash, since you're paying the same amount anyways.

The flip side is if the car is totaled or stolen any money you put down is completely lost.

So overall, putting money down adds risk for no real benefit.

I appreciate the input and not trying to be harsh but why wouldn't I ask, am I just supposed to take your word for it? I guess that makes sense but I'm not too worried about my car getting stolen. I suppose being totaled is always a possibility. I would imagine how much you are compensated depends on ones insurance coverage /company. I recently applied for a home loan and despite a credit rating above 800 the lender was a little concerned about my high car payment. As I said, it can negatively affect your credit and I see that as at least as significant of a factor as worrying about theft or totaling my car and possibly losing down payment.

[Draper]

Originally Posted by Bch53211

Why wouldn't I ask, am I just supposed to take your word for it? I guess that makes sense but I'm not too worried about my car getting stolen. I suppose being totaled is always a possibility. I would imagine how much you are compensated depends on ones insurance coverage /company. I recently applied for a home loan and despite a credit rating above 800 the lender was a little concerned about my high car payment. As I said, it can negatively affect your credit and I see that as at least as significant of a factor as worrying about theft or totaling my car and possibly losing down payment.

If you have circumstances where a lower car payment benefits you in some meaningful way, then putting money down may be the best option...but if not, then no money down is the way to go.

PS - No one really plans on getting their car stolen...but it happens.
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1411643

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by Bch53211

I appreciate the input and not trying to be harsh but why wouldn't I ask, am I just supposed to take your word for it? I guess that makes sense but I'm not too worried about my car getting stolen. I suppose being totaled is always a possibility. I would imagine how much you are compensated depends on ones insurance coverage /company. I recently applied for a home loan and despite a credit rating above 800 the lender was a little concerned about my high car payment. As I said, it can negatively affect your credit and I see that as at least as significant of a factor as worrying about theft or totaling my car and possibly losing down payment.

Sounds like your car payment may be too high compared to your income. If you are looking to purchase a home and this is an issue I would suggest getting rid of the car and getting something less expensive.