Circuit Mont Tremblant (LCMT) Info

[aboulfad]

Thanks to CanAutM3 persistence I finally decided to join a one day event at LCMT organized by a local sports car shop (VAG Motorpsot) on August 1. It's a friendly three level group taking turns on the circuit, you ride on your own with the beginners group (so far I've been lapping with instructors on another track Autodrome St-Eustache)

It would be very helpful and greatly appreciated for those that drove there to post any videos, share m-laptimer files, track specific information to help noobs like myself. I always like to know what I am getting into.

Wiki: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circuit_Mont-Tremblant
Website: http://www.lecircuit.com/index.cfm?lang=en
Video: interesting one with data overlay
Google Earth Overlay Racing Line
CanAutM3 Video: see post #40 or the video link.
Track Notes/instructions: Post #11

Many thanks in advance for contributors!

[aboulfad]

First, mega thanks to CanAutM3 (referred thereafter as Nic ) and larryn for your detailed description, instructions and words of encouragement. Everything that you guys warned me about, paved the way for me having a fun, safe and enjoyable day! Nic, I would love to treat you to a beer or lunch just to show my appreciation for the time taken to write down post #11. (maybe you can read your PMs once in a while )

Most of notes are from a beginner to beginners, so take it as such. Three things that are important for full day events:

1. Rest, rest, and rest ahead of the day.

I had four hours of sleep the day before because I was up fabricating a stupid mic connection to my iphone that didn't work in the end... Doing a full day is taxing and as the day progresses and you become more familiar, confidence is up, and coupled with fatigue, its a recipe for disaster. I recognized I was exhausted and did not do the last session!

2. Don't be over confident

Around 10am, all 50 or so participants were awakened by a loud unfortunate screech followed by a loud crash just before turn #14 "Namerow". A major one that left a Dodge black viper totalled !!! The owner walked out after, he was in advanced group with cold tires... The morale of the story, experienced or not, take it easy, real easy and increase speed by a bit as the day progresses. This track is fun, but if you don't know it, you gotta respect it, and trust me you will be either in the grass or in the marbels (turn 7) !!! Two cars experienced that.

3. Listen to instructors/organizers

The debriefing is very important and contains vital information on many elements of the track, rules, ... Don't be "Statler and Waldor", listen and ask questions when unclear about anything. Many guys were chatting in the background and even when given some feedback after the session, some forgot rule 1 : "Forget your ego at home".

I was lucky to know one of the organizers/instructor (Daniel) from St-Eustache and he even offered me a ride in his car for few laps around the track. There was no dedicated instructors per beginner student, we had three pace cars that showed us the track in the first session.

Onto the fun stuff...

Video
Sorry for the poor audio/video recording, I ended up using the internal iPhone mic... My fastest lap (did 4/7 sessions, ~ 20 laps) which was 2'32" and my maximum speed after Turn 8 was 172kph, the fastest that day reported by Harry's Laptimer was 1'56" by a 2001 Porsche 911. I wanted to do 200kph on the straight (8-10), but virtually impossible at my level and abilities!

The most exciting part is at 1'05", just before Turn 8 and the passing by a red GTI that I followed and also passed the slow Porsche 911 Turbo :-)

I-Track
This track is fun, fun, fun but you gotta respect it and not rush into it! It is full of so many different aspects, straights, Esses, caroussel, off camber, hidden turns, drops, humps, ... In the early seventies, many cars would drop out of the race! I think, after Circuit Gilles-Villeneuve, Mont Tremblant is the greatest track.

All the instructions that Nic were spot on However even though I read, deciphered, watched videos, ... you assimilate very little and as you lap many times, some things start coming to you. Having those notes were priceless, because I was ahead of the beginner's gang that had no clue and I was in certain turn way faster then some of them Porsches

II-Passing
This event allows for passing in all groups using point-by passing using flashers. At first its intimidating, especially when they mixed beginners and intermediate after the morning crash, and then all three groups together!!! I decided not to join that session, and some of my buddies beginners hated it as they were giving point-by's for many faster cars from the more advanced groups.

However in the early afternoon, we got back the isolated sessions, and as the afternoon passed, and less people remained, all three groups were joined again which I decided to join. Although a bit too much to process, the rules are strictly set in the debriefing and most drivers abide by them. And its so much fun when you pass a car you can see it in the one lap I attached. But not so much fun when many just show up out of nowhere behind you At few times, I was alone on the track and it was an amazing feeling

III- Car and settings
These cars even in their most stock non modified versions are so track capable, even though I didn't push myself or the car, you feel its capable of so much. However few points I noticed:

- Steering: In the end I chose Sports plus as I felt the car reacted better to my crappy steering movements !
- Suspension: The track at Tremblant is really nice, smooth and almost perfect, so I also decided to use Sports+ as in some turns, I felt the car was wobbly kinda like a boat on Sport Suspension.
- Transmission: S2, at first I was driving in D2, but the car was off or behind what needed to be done, so I switched to S2 and man so much fun doing the changes (mostly 3,4 and sometimes 5th)
- DSC: we were asked to keep it on, and I was happy that it never engaged with my moderate driving, except on the darn straight after Turn 8!!! Twice, it intervened and flashed quickly as I shifted gears from 3-4, speeds of 130+, rpm 5k or 6k+, and I felt a jolt or a feeling when you are in S3. On those two occasions, i slowed down as it was worrisome especially on that fast straight.
Disclaimer: I have the US GTS EGS firmware but unsure if its related.

Summary: It was a fun, enjoyable and rewarding event in a beautiful setting, I think lapping/tracking makes you a better driver overall and highly recommended to try some local instructed clubs to truly enjoy our cars!

[Benzima]

So cool! I will most likely NOT receive my car by the event (M2), but I will be interested in future track days (with both the 1M and the new to come M2).

[aboulfad]

Originally Posted by Benzima

So cool! I will most likely NOT receive my car by the event (M2), but I will be interested in future track days (with both the 1M and the new to come M2).

You should think of joining too the ASE lapping club, they have every Monday reserved Autodrome St Eustache, and you get an "instructor" for as long you are a beginner for the same price of $25/20mns. I am learning quite a bit, it's a small track but full of the basic stuff. You can PM me when you get your car, as by then I will be a pro like canautm3

[CanAutM3]

I've attached a picture of the "basic" track layout as it is usually run. The "chicane" after turn-1 and the "turn-6 by-pass" are layouts that aren't usually used on regular track days.

[Benzima]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

You should think of joining too the ASE lapping club, they have every Monday reserved Autodrome St Eustache, and you get an "instructor" for as long you are a beginner for the same price of $25/20mns. I am learning quite a bit, it's a small track but full of the basic stuff. You can PM me when you get your car, as by then I will be a pro like canautm3

Thanks! Will do!

[larryn]

Turn 1 is where I learned the term "pucker factor". You'll have fun. You might want to attend events that place an instructor with you for the day, like the BMW CC, or even the GVC or Boston Chapter of the BMW CCA, who run there regularly.

I love that track. You'll have fun. Make sure you bleed speed off before the crest when approaching Namerow. If you don't, you're off the end...

[aboulfad]

Originally Posted by larryn

Turn 1 is where I learned the term "pucker factor". You'll have fun. You might want to attend events that place an instructor with you for the day, like the BMW CC, or even the GVC or Boston Chapter of the BMW CCA, who run there regularly.

I love that track. You'll have fun. Make sure you bleed speed off before the crest when approaching Namerow. If you don't, you're off the end...

Pucker factor:? Bleed I.e slow down?
Unfortunatly that event only provides an instructor for 20-30mns, but by then I'd have had 6-10 instructor supervised sessions in the other club. My goal is safety first, don't plan on breaking any records, well maybe the slowest one! I'll check the other clubs for the future. Thanks.

[larryn]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

Pucker factor:? Bleed I.e slow down?
Unfortunatly that event only provides an instructor for 20-30mns, but by then I'd have had 6 instructor supervised sessions in the other club. I'll check the other clubs for the future. Thanks.

Turn 1 is completely blind. You drop off the edge of it to a downhill section that you cannot see while approaching. To do turn 1 correctly, or fast, requires that you find the correct turn in to apex, and then find a marker in the distance (I noticed a birch tree) to aim for, and you can keep a lot of the speed gained on the front straight.

Turn 2 turn in used to be near a divot in the pavement (if that still exists). You can take is surprisingly quickly, as you are compressed from hitting the bottom of the hill. However, getting around 3 quickly sets you up for a long fast section, and it might be better to give up some speed going around 2 (or taking some off on the short section between 2 & 3) to get around 3 faster.

It's a fairly technical track with lots of rewards. You'll have fun!

[Benzima]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

You should think of joining too the ASE lapping club, they have every Monday reserved Autodrome St Eustache, and you get an "instructor" for as long you are a beginner for the same price of $25/20mns. I am learning quite a bit, it's a small track but full of the basic stuff. You can PM me when you get your car, as by then I will be a pro like canautm3

I will be out for this year since I just received my VIN and I expect my car to arrive mid-September. Count me on for next year or for meets later this Fall.

[CanAutM3]

You'll enter the front straight in 3rd gear on the right hand side of the track as you are tracking out from turn 15. Keep the steering wheel turned just a bit longer so you aim the car to cross the track diagonally as you travel along the front straight. Upshift into 4th. You need to be all the way to the left along the cement wall as you are entering turn 1. Just a light brush of the brakes should be sufficient (I don't brake at all). Very very slow turn-in going into turn-1 to get you close to the edge of the grass on the left side of the track at the bottom of the hill which is the turn-in for 2. Turn-in a bit more at that point and apply some throttle going up the hill to keep the rear well planted. You need to hit those two curbs on the crest of the hill at the apex of 2. Let the car track out to the curb on the left as you go down hill. Turn-in for turn-3 is about 2/3rds down the curb. Aim for the turn-3 apex which is right in the middle of the curb to the right.

Set your steering wheel straight aiming for the flagger hole in the fence. This will bring you to the left side of the track. Make sure you brake in a straight line and downshift to 3rd. There are two prominent marks in the asphalt, turn-in for turn-4 is just before these two markers (this is the "school line", I take a much tighter line going into 4, but it is quite hairy as you have to brake while the car is still turning ). Turn sharply to the right to position the car so that the car is parallel to the curb on the right between 4 and 5. If you need to accelerate after the turn-in into 4, that means you over-braked (most common newb mistake). Don't be afraid to ride the curb between 4 and 5. Sharp turn-in into 5 at the line in the asphalt. Aim for the apex and don't hesitate to aggressively ride the curb on the left. Be patient with the throttle coming out of 5 (don't pinch the steering wheel).

Accelerate between 5 and 6, upshift to 4th and stay on the right side of the track. No need to brake going into 6 but do lift slightly. Slow turn-in for 6 at the little white marker on the right side edge of the track. Just touch the mid point of the curb at the apex on the left and progressively open the steering wheel as you apply more throttle. Track out all the way to the right side of the track. Keep the steering wheel turned a bit longer to position the car to cross the track diagonally from right to left.

Medium braking going into 7. Very very slow and early turn-in going into 7 at the arrow. It is very important not to throw the car into 7 (sharp turn-in). If you do a sharp early turn-in, you won't have enough track at the exit and if you do a late sharp turn-in, you'll be in the off-camber portion of the track (which is also full of marbles because nobody drives there), both of which are quite scary. When I say slow turn-in, it is very slow, you need to be slowly turning the steering wheel from turn-in all the way to the apex. The apex is about mid-way on the inside curb. Track-out of 7 is probably my favourite portion of the track, it is slightly off camber and with enough speed you get beautiful 4 wheels drifts . Get on the throttle as soon as you pass the apex to plant the rear and let yourself track-out all the way to the curb on the left. Accelerate to turn-8, if your fast enough, you will need to upshift to 5th, otherwise just stay in 4th. There is a slight left hand kink between 7 and 8 that does not have a number. Be wary about that spot in the wet.

The are many possible lines for turn-8 with the 3 most prominent being single late apex, single early apex and double apex. For beginner students with powerful cars, I usually recommend the single late apex. Start braking hard around the #3 marker (this is a very hard braking zone), downshift into 3rd and turn-in at the arrow in the grass. There is line in the asphalt (the joint between two asphalt machine passes). Follow that line (it should be right in the middle of your car) for half the turn then start aiming for the second curb on the inside of the track. Be patient with the throttle in turn-8, if you are too early on the throttle the front will wash off and the car won't be pointing in the right direction. Past the apex, progressively open the steering wheel as you apply more throttle while tracking out (be careful not to pinch the steering wheel). Keep on accelerating down the back straight, upshifting to 4th and 5th. The hump at turn 9 is a non-issue in the dry, but just be careful in the wet. The back straight at LCMT is quite fast, I've hit 235km/h (146mph) GPS with my M4 on a few occasions .

Make sure you are at extreme left of the track and start braking near the dent in the guardrail (braking at the #3 marker is a bit tight for a beginner), downshift to 3rd. Medium slow turn-in for 10 at the arrow. Get on the throttle early (but not too much) to plant the rear, you can ride the curb at the apex and stay to the right of the track close to the grass (don't track out coming out of 10).

Slight braking going into 11 and turn-in at the white marker on the edge of the track. Apex is at the mid-point of the curb on the left. Track out to the right side of the track while getting on the throttle to go up the hill. Be careful not to get too close to the grass tracking out of 11, there is NO margin for error.

Sharp braking going into 12. Ensure you do all your braking going up the hill. Very slow turn-in going into 12 at the arrow. The apex is blind at the turn-in of 12 which is distracting, just look at it with x-ray vision through the cement wall anyway. It will then appear just where you imagined it . Be very patient with the throttle in 12 to avoid having the front wash out. Also avoid the curb at the apex, it is very sharply angled and will throw your car off line if you touch it. Track out of 12 all the way to the curb on the right. Be very careful not pinch the steering wheel coming out of 12, many have spun and damaged their cars there applying too much throttle. It's a slow corner, but can be treacherous.

Just hug the right side of the track going into 13 until you pass the curb, upshift to 4th and then let yourself track out to the left of the track as you go downhill. Make sure you are all the way to left when you start braking at the #3 marker, downshift to 3rd. As larryn pointed out, ensure you finish all your braking in the uphill portion, you lose so much grip when you hit the crest, its easy to wash out. Progressively release the brakes as you approach the crest and turn-in point for 14 at the arrow. Turn sharply to the right to hit the apex, but do not touch the apex curb as it is sharply angled. There a 2 main line for Namerow, the "arc" and the "tight inside line", I prefer the latter. So after the turn-in, keep it tight to the right so that the car is nice and parallel with the grass for the short straight going into 15.

Slight lift before the turn-in for 15 at the white marker on the edge of the track. Steady throttle up to the apex mid-point on the curb, then progressively apply throttle as you open the steering wheel and you're on your way for another lap .

[aboulfad]

@CanAutM3 , I owe you a beer or maybe a new stuffed animal for your son thank you for the detailed write up I am printing the track and overlaying your comments and others, I'll post it here so it's like a LCMT cheat sheet!

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

I am printing the track and overlaying your comments and others, I'll post it here so it's like a LCMT cheat sheet!

I edited a few typos, just make sure you capture them .

[stealth70mde]

CanAutM3,

Wow! What a detailed right-up and I felt like I was actually racing the track while reading.

aboulfad, as long as you don't start reading the comments while doing a lap you should be fine. Take the time it takes to let your brain and body learn the track by feeling it and also by all the feedback the car will give you back, then, the notes will help you refine your lap times if a good time is what you seek.

[aboulfad]

Originally Posted by stealth70mde

aboulfad, as long as you don't start reading the comments while doing a lap you should be fine. Take the time it takes to let your brain and body learn the track by feeling it and also by all the feedback the car will give you back, then, the notes will help you refine your lap times if a good time is what you want.

Did you go to that track before, Why don't you join us?

[stealth70mde]

I would love to go to LCMT as I've never tried it. Beautiful and challenging from what I hear.

I did some go-karting in France in the late 1990's while I was working there and was invited to participate in some amateur races by the owner of a go-karting club where I used to go for fun. One time he came to me and asked if I had racing experience because I was constantly flirting with the best times of the track and I said no. I said I just go in and drive. Anyway, it was really fun and managed to have some good races but because I had no training in actual racing it was a pretty scary compared to just go on a track and make the best lap time you can get. Having other drivers swirling and pushing you around at these speeds and on a fast go-kart is totally something else.

I also did the one-day BMW advanced winter driving school in 2010 at the iCar circuit in Mirabel. That was awesome!

Apart from that I'm pretty green for racing and circuit lapping. I would say that I would be starting from a clean slate since I aged since last time and my reflexes aren't there anymore.

But yes, I'd love to go.

[aboulfad]

stealth70mde, not to derail my post :-D, but come to ASE Lapping at Autodrome St Eustache, show up with a Snell 2010 Helmet and membership is $100, $25/20mns of track time with instructor! Its lots of fun. Its every Monday from 5-8:30! very well organized and friendly.

If you want to go to LCMT, VAG Motorsport is taking in registration for August 1st, its a full day reserved for their customers, $380 (tax in, and lunch, ...), you get an instructor for 30mns and then

P.s. kart car cant compare to an M4 (sorry couldn't resist)

[Benzima]

CanAutM3

Thanks for the LCMT 101 track course!

[stealth70mde]

Double post...

[stealth70mde]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

P.s. kart car cant compare to an M4 (sorry couldn't resist)

No, not really but one day try something like this and then you will understand what I was talking about. It's really fun and really draining physically because it is SO intense on all your senses



In the following video he starts driving it like it's supposed to be driven at about 1:25.

[aboulfad]

ok CanAutM3 my head is hurting, I have attempted (draft) to create a racing line using google earth based on your directions and instructions. Here's the Google Earth KMZ.

I will also overlay another layer with braking (red) and constant acceleration (yellow) over the racing line. I also added the first few comments on the map, if you click one, your instructions are there but I didn't finish yet.

Also, one can check the elevation profile, which helped me understand some of your info! To open the file, one needs google earth.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by aboulfad

P.s. kart car cant compare to an M4 (sorry couldn't resist)

True, a real kart is much more intense that an M4