1morelap.ca trackday questions

[thehalcyon]

For those of you that have participated or participate in this. I was looking to register for the April and possibly May sessions.

Had a chat with the fellow that runs the site on FB and he mentioned that as a first timer in my own car they would have to sign me off after 4 or so sessions with an instructor.

I'm trying to avoid a lot of hand holding as I do have track experience just not in the 1er. Not interested in paying for 4 sessions upfront if they instructor deems me a competent enough driver and signs me off after 2 sessions. At 73$ each for 30 min, 2 of them alone would be the price of the tracknight, not exactly cheap.

Any thoughts on this, Am I stuck having to do these sessions based on your experience? Have had a quick look at other lap events but all things considered I guess it is reasonable.. I'm just disappointed because I was looking to run with some other Ottawa members here and worried i'll be treated like a complete newbie with no track experience.

[NorthernDancer]

I have run Calabogie about 6 times, all with well known instructors so that's about 18 hours on the track. I don't consider 4x30 minute sessions with these people as "hand holding". Who were your previous instructors and on what tracks? If you're really that good (meaning know the track line, are extremely safe, give good point bys, etc) you may get signed off by these folks. However remember that April 24th you're only running the west track and with a whole bunch of other newbies. I should be there as a warm up for the BMW "M" school at the BMW factory in Spartanburg SC. Do you have fresh brake fluid?

[Olgeezer1]

I've done a couple of these and enjoyed them. I've found w/ street tires and stock brakes 20min. is about it before things start deteriorating. Don't know about getting signed off at these events. Most of the instructors seem to come from MCO (Motorsport Club of Ottawa) so you could inquire with them. One instructor recommended attending one of their full day track events for certification and it sounded like if they like what they see 1 event might be enough. Personally I'm undecided. Like the idea of access to the full track which is rare for novice events, but the expense of toasting my street tires or having to buy dedicated track tires for a full day event is a deterrent.

[Ender_]

I've been participating at 1morelap for over 2 years, and last year I was a coach (no formal instructor training, just lots of track time with MCO and BMW CC).

Honestly by the sounds of it not sure the Novice days are for you. What kind of experience do you have on the track?
My guess is if they said after 4 sessions they'll see you don't have much. But maybe I'm wrong.

The novice days are really for those with little to no track time and give them a taste of it.
1morelap evening lapping is really for the intermediate/experienced guys to have a good time on the track with other guys that they know they can trust.

Lets see what you say about your track experience but from what you are saying I think your best bet is either BMW or MCO HPDE events. Which are a full day or weekend, there is in class lessons and on the track. Probably after two of these you would get signed off for the 1morelap evening events.
MCO = http://www.mco.org/wordpress/registration-2/
BMW = http://bmwccottawa.org/schools/advanced-driving

I am concerned about your attitude towards an instructor and getting signed off. I'm running in the advanced group now and I still want an instructor with me, the point is to always be improving your driving.
Instructors aren't there to hold you back at all just make sure you are safe and improve your driving.

If you have never driven at Bogie there is no way after one event you will be signed off, its not a simple track. We all want everyone else on the track with us to be safe and we all way to go home in our own cars, that's a motto of these events.

[Ender_]

Originally Posted by Olgeezer1

Personally I'm undecided. Like the idea of access to the full track which is rare for novice events, but the expense of toasting my street tires or having to buy dedicated track tires for a full day event is a deterrent.

Honestly your first HPDE don't worry about wearing out the tires or brakes. Do make sure they have good tread and brake's no more then 50% wear.

Even into your second, third don't worry about it. Its all about how hard you drive, this will dictate the need for track tires.

I got track tires the second year I got into it, if you want to push it you will want to. It's not a cheap hobby, on top of my car I spend about $5k/year on HPDE and lapping a year (track time, brakes, tires, fluids - I don't do the work myself other then swapping pads and wheels, so a bit more pricey)
If you only do a one day event a year or two your costs will be minimal.

[MightyMouseTech]

If you have never been to Bogie before, you will honestly spend the first couple if sessions just trying to remember where the track goes. It is a lot of track, and several blind corners look very similar going into them, but require very different lines. It is quite different than most tracks.


Don't think of it as an instructor riding with you, think of it as a navigator. I also don't understand why you are against having an instructor. Need to check that ego if you have no experience there.

The 1morelap events are more for people with significant track time there, except for the novice nights. They are a little light on the intermediate drivers in Bogie experience.

I would seriously look at maybe doing an MCO event to get a bunch of Bogie experience under your belt in a short time.

[Olgeezer1]

Originally Posted by Ender_

Honestly your first HPDE don't worry about wearing out the tires or brakes. Do make sure they have good tread and brake's no more then 50% wear.

Even into your second, third don't worry about it. Its all about how hard you drive, this will dictate the need for track tires.

I got track tires the second year I got into it, if you want to push it you will want to. It's not a cheap hobby, on top of my car I spend about $5k/year on HPDE and lapping a year (track time, brakes, tires, fluids - I don't do the work myself other then swapping pads and wheels, so a bit more pricey)
If you only do a one day event a year or two your costs will be minimal.

For the first event or 2 I agree. However, having done a couple of evening/1morelap events I find myself getting faster/braver, going harder into the corners and hence pushing the limits of the stock 128i setup. Driving this way my brakes are done within 20min. and tire outside edges are taking a beating. Upgrading to Performance brakes this spring should help some but as you say this can become an expensive hobby. None of this though should deter anyone from trying an event or 2. Also agree that I've never felt "held back" by an instructor. They've always encouraged me to go as fast as I can within my comfort zone.

[NorthernDancer]

Your brakes are done after 20 minutes! I'm surprised. I have 128 also and think I'm going pretty quick around the track (160ish at end of Rocky Road) and have no fade whatsoever. My sessions are 30 minutes, so between warm up and cool down that's 22-23 minutes when I'm hard on the brakes. Two sessions on OE BMW pads (w/Pirelli RFTs), last year had Cool Carbon on front, still OE BMW on rear (w/Michelin PSS). Yeah, motorsports, you have to pay to play.

[dcaron9999]

What I find with new to intermediate participants, is that they tend to ride their brakes. They end up getting brake fade early in their session, because they are used to braking on the street with smooth and prolonged application of the pedal.

You can cook your brake pads (longer stopping distances) and boil your fluid (softer pedal) very easily on the track, if you dont brake hard and for the shortest time possible.

Im a volunteer instructor at two local lapping clubs in the Montreal area. Ive never done Bogie but it is on my bucket list. I treat any new track I visit with humility and respect. If available, I ask an instructor to hop onboard with me for at least the 1st session of the day. From that point onwards, I manage myself, and I usually need a full day to get comfortable and safe out there. I did Mosport twice last year at the end of the season. One must park his ego at the gate over there, and ask for instructor help when starting out. Damn fast, scary, and beautiful track!

In the province of Quebec, what we have that ressembles the level of challenge offered by Mosport and Calabogie, is LCMT (Le Circuit Mont Tremblant). All of the locals love to ride over there. Beautiful scenery, elevation changes, camber changes, and smooth surfaces. Enough high speed sections to cool you car and brakes...

[MightyMouseTech]

Generally, the faster your laptimes, the less heat you are putting in the brakes. As you slow down less into the corners, the faster your corner speeds, and the lower your laptimes.