PTF proTUNE Results, PUMP gas stock turbo record and comparison dynos with JB4 G5

[proTUNING Freaks]

In almost every initial email people ask us what we can do for them with our custom tuning power wise. Some come to us with bone stock cars and ask about getting parts to go full bolt on and get a custom tune. Others come to us with an existing Cobb OTS tune and ask about gains while some already have a tune such as the latest JB4 G5 with and without the free BMS backend flash.

We spent some time on the dyno and gathered up some neat results to demonstrate what we can do. The runs are on pump 93 octane, same day, details below.

Car and its modifications:
2007 335i 6AT
WINTER tires (they actually hurt power a little over summer tires due to thread design, read more here if you like).
3" catless downpipes
OEM exhaust
BMS DCI intakes
Intercooler
93 octane pump gas
All runs done in 4th gear

We started with a baseline run with all the boltons on the car and just a Factory (OEM) tune flash and from there did our custom tuning. Other than being a great all around consistent reliable tune this is also a stock turbo pump 93 octane N54 torque World Record.



Gains of +115whp and +187wtq over stock baseline of the same car, same dyno, pump gas and FBO modifications. That will transform your stock N54 entirely and provide it with enough punch to confuse a lot of other cars on the road while doing so on your no-hassle pump gas

As the car came to us with a JB4 G5 ISO on it we moved on to get some runs with it installed. First we uninstalled the Cobb AP entirely from the car and ran the JB4 as most people out there seem to run it, without a pump gas backend flash. Here are the results:



The tune above had a number of timing corrections on Map 1, 2 and 5 and we felt that we should flash the free BMS pump gas flash and get what we and BMS feel is a more appropriate tune these days. Here are the results:



Above shows the power actually went down from No BMS backend flash runs. However, given how Map 1, 2 and 5 are setup for boost this setup actually is considerably less knock prone and safer to run on the car than the No backend flash. In case you're running a JB4 out there without an appropriate flash at least do yourself a favour and grab the BMS free flash. Your N54 will thank you for it.

At this point we installed the Cobb AP back on the car and ran the Cobb OTS Stage 2+Agg map that comes preloaded on the Cobb Accessport to get a sense of how it compares against the JB4. Here are the results against the JB4 without the free BMS backend flash:



Considering how simple it is to plug the Cobb AP into the OBD2 port and just flash it with this OTS map and considering the logs show absolutely no knock while making more power everywhere we felt the Cobb AP brings the most complete off the shelf tune available on the market even without any custom tuning.

Here is the same Cobb Stage 2+Aggressive map against the JB4 G5 with a BMS backend flash:




Here are results of our custom tune compared to the off the shelf map. Note almost +30whp/+80wtq gains at peak over the Cobb Stage 2+Agg OTS map and as much as +70whp gained in midrange.



Let us know if any questions at all. Our custom tuning has been built and refined over many years with the N54 and we will guarantee a consistent reliable tune for all of our customers. Tuning comes with lifetime support from us and unlimited map revisions as long as the car needs a revision on the same mods/octane we're there to help free of any additional charge.

With the recent introduction of ignition timing logging on the JB4 G5 we've adopted it as well for custom tuning when/where required and will provide custom backend Cobb flashes to run with the JB run exclusively on a custom map 6 where higher numbers are available to be had as well but it is nice to see what Cobb OTS vs. JB4 OTS vs. stock baseline and custom tuning can do all in one place gathered on the same car same octane same dyno same day.

When we get a chance we'll do a similar exercise on higher octane and demonstrate our results to the community.

Regards,
PTF
http://www.protuningfreaks.com
http://www.facebook.com/protuningfreaks

[bokyo1987]

That's monster torque on 93oct! Great stuff as usual PTF.

[Grinchxvx]

Heard on "the other forum" that the jb4 was setup incorrectly which resulted in the skewed results. It would be more legit to see a 3rd party dyno comparison with a cobb stage 2+ to jb4 map 7 with or without e85 flash if you're going for all out power comparison.

[turbo v6]

Originally Posted by Grinchxvx

Heard on "the other forum" that the jb4 was setup incorrectly which resulted in the skewed results. It would be more legit to see a 3rd party dyno comparison with a cobb stage 2+ to jb4 map 7 with or without e85 flash if you're going for all out power comparison.

If I am not mistaken:
Cobb OTS stage 2+ aggressive = 93 octane
Jb4 map 7 = 100 octane straight race fuel

Jb4 map 5, which has been "adapted" should be most comparable.

I thank all tuners for there efforts on this platform, software and hardware.

[loesch]

Just so people have a balanced perspective of these results, make sure to also read this thread. http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28811. Not trying to start anything but I respect Terry's opinion. He doesn't get involved unless there is definitely a good reason.

[Elsabor67]

Something doesn't look like it was setup properly or it did not "learn" or adapt to the changes. Before I went PTF Protuned I had a JB4 G5 ISO board with meth, stock snails and FBO. Pulled a 424WHP/478WTQ on Map 5 back in late 2013.

Sometimes threads like this start the common back and forths that make looking at the forums worthless.

[Grinchxvx]

Originally Posted by turbo v6

If I am not mistaken:
Cobb OTS stage 2+ aggressive = 93 octane
Jb4 map 7 = 100 octane straight race fuel

Jb4 map 5, which has been "adapted" should be most comparable.

I thank all tuners for there efforts on this platform, software and hardware.

So does cobb not offer a race gas map without a pro tune? I think Map 2 would be more comparable to the cobb stage 2 ots also since you can't really mess with it and skew results

[proTUNING Freaks]

Originally Posted by Grinchxvx

So does cobb not offer a race gas map without a pro tune? I think Map 2 would be more comparable to the cobb stage 2 ots also since you can't really mess with it and skew results

Cobb has two types of off the shelf race maps. One is set for race gas and the other is made for an E30 blend of ethanol and gasoline. On our dyno it'll make around 410whp and 430wtq and is quite an upgrade over the pump gas map.

[Boosted_N54]

I'm going with RB turbo or Vargus stg2+ and I have 2008 135i 6 speed FBO Cobb stg2+ aggressive. what power gains will I be looking at with upgrade turbos + ptf tune? and (or)
upgrade turbos +Meth+pro tune?

[ShocknAwe]

I'd like to see PTF redo the tests on setting 4-3 and post the updated results. Those results were clearly not representative of the capabilities of the hardware & tuning and something was wrong.

[MuNkY6913]

Originally Posted by proTUNING Freaks

Cobb has two types of off the shelf race maps. One is set for race gas and the other is made for an E30 blend of ethanol and gasoline. On our dyno it'll make around 410whp and 430wtq and is quite an upgrade over the pump gas map.

Is there any way you can show what the boost levels were with those logs? Im wondering what your ptf tune was hitting for boost against the Cobb and jb4.

[proTUNING Freaks]

Originally Posted by Socrates.Tii

I'm going with RB turbo or Vargus stg2+ and I have 2008 135i 6 speed FBO Cobb stg2+ aggressive. what power gains will I be looking at with upgrade turbos + ptf tune? and (or)
upgrade turbos +Meth+pro tune?

Without the inlet pipes and only meth injection you are looking at roughly a 500whp range when pushing around 20psi on those turbos. We highly suggest getting turbo inlet pipes installed to help flow on the top end.

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

I'd like to see PTF redo the tests on setting 4-3 and post the updated results. Those results were clearly not representative of the capabilities of the hardware & tuning and something was wrong.

We will certainly do another batch of testing with the 4-3 setting on the JB. The results shown are simply what they are.

Originally Posted by MuNkY6913

Is there any way you can show what the boost levels were with those logs? Im wondering what your ptf tune was hitting for boost against the Cobb and jb4.

When it comes to tuning boost is only one of the parameters. You have timing, fuel and cam timing (VANOS) in play as well. When you move either one of those parameters around you have to move the others as well in most cases. So simply saying this tune runs X psi and another runs Y psi isn't representative of a complete picture as one tune may run 12-14deg of timing with a mild cam timing setup and another 3-5deg of ignition timing with a more aggressive cam timing setup.

As far as our tune it is hitting 21psi in midrange with appropriate ignition timing, VANOS and fuel settings to go along with it.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by proTUNING Freaks

We will certainly do another batch of testing with the 4-3 setting on the JB. The results shown are simply what they are.

As far as our tune it is hitting 21psi in midrange with appropriate ignition timing, VANOS and fuel settings to go along with it.

Results shown for a run made on overly conservative timing you mean. Regardless, good to hear you are going to revisit.

How long are those stock turbos going to last pushing 21psi?

[proTUNING Freaks]

OEM turbos are troopers They're very capable at pushing much higher boost levels than 21psi in the low/mid RPM range and they'll happily do that day in day out. It is in the upper RPM range that they lose their efficiency and introduce more heat into the air charge and become worthless causing power loss when not running meth.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by proTUNING Freaks

OEM turbos are troopers They're very capable at pushing much higher boost levels than 21psi in the low/mid RPM range and they'll happily do that day in day out. It is in the upper RPM range that they lose their efficiency and introduce more heat into the air charge and become worthless causing power loss when not running meth.

Thanks for the clarification. I should read better, you clearly stated that was midrange boost earlier. Stable/productive 21psi up top would be witchcraft on stockers.

[darkrom]

I suggest everyone do a little reading before you consider spending money here. Is this something you want your tuner to be saying about his "fair" comparisons?

"We have every run logged. I won't post a single one. Deal with it."

Why would anyone take such an F-you attitude if they had nothing to hide?


Read this thread. Terry politely asks for the logs at least 2 dozen times.

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28811

They skewed the results by purposely gimping the JB4 by setting up the backend flash wrong. Whats more troubling is that they refused to post any logs, just because.

I really don't get why you have to act like this PTF. If I got a PTF tune and then dyno'd at 200 whp FBO, what is the first thing you'd ask me for? LOGS.

Logs contain proof of how the car is actually set up and running. You actively and childishly refuse to share the logs of your testing for NO reason at all. It is safe to assume the logs will prove you are lying/manipulating data, and your official answer is "nuh uh I'm not showing anything" more or less. Either you are too incompetent to figure out the JB4 configuration, or you are dishonest. Considering your tunes are better than some know-nothing guess work...I'm going to call you dishonest rather than insult your knowledge.

Good luck with that.

[proTUNING Freaks]

Originally Posted by darkrom

I suggest everyone do a little reading before you consider spending money here. Is this something you want your tuner to be saying about his "fair" comparisons?

"We have every run logged. I won't post a single one. Deal with it."

We are sorry but that has been posted in retaliation to BMS for accusing us of this wrong doing which has already been clarified on e90post.

Originally Posted by darkrom

Why would anyone take such an F-you attitude if they had nothing to hide?

Read this thread. Terry politely asks for the logs at least 2 dozen times.

This is false. Terry and BMS did not politely ask for the logs. They started a thread accusing us of purposely skewing data which we have already proven not to be the case.

I am sorry but it is sad to hear of the BMS agenda spreading to muddy our honest provided results. If you'd like to read the full thread with our honest feedback you are free to read the thread on e90post here:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1091724

Originally Posted by darkrom

They skewed the results by purposely gimping the JB4 by setting up the backend flash wrong. Whats more troubling is that they refused to post any logs, just because.

This is false. We initially refused to post anything for BMS due to their unethical posts on n54tech. They have gone as far as to delete our posts, hide them from the readers for us only to realize they were doing this to us once we accessed n54tech from a browser that was not logged in. After confirming this was the case they went ahead and again deleted a post of ours without any mention as to remove our information from the readers on that board. Regardless of all the drama we still decided to provide all the JB datalogs for their review. Unfortunately all of the issues presented in the JB logs were brushed over and ignored by BMS.

Originally Posted by darkrom

I really don't get why you have to act like this PTF. If I got a PTF tune and then dyno'd at 200 whp FBO, what is the first thing you'd ask me for? LOGS.

This has been explained sir. We are here to help our customers tune their cars and they have access to all the logging and logs they'd like to gather as well as post publicly on the forums or elsewhere as they've done many times in the past.

Originally Posted by darkrom

Logs contain proof of how the car is actually set up and running. You actively and childishly refuse to share the logs of your testing for NO reason at all. It is safe to assume the logs will prove you are lying/manipulating data, and your official answer is "nuh uh I'm not showing anything" more or less. Either you are too incompetent to figure out the JB4 configuration, or you are dishonest. Considering your tunes are better than some know-nothing guess work...I'm going to call you dishonest rather than insult your knowledge.

Good luck with that.

We are sorry you feel this way and we certainly had no other motives as has already been discussed in the e90post thread linked above but to 1) show off the shelf tuning solutions and their power on the same car, same dyno, same modifications and 2) show what we can do with custom tuning using in this case flash tuning. We have not under any circumstance bashed the JB or BMS and will not. On the contrary harsh words were started from the forum you have linked without any merit as has been discussed there and on e90post already.

Regards,
PTF

[GR1P]

Bogus results

/thread

[darkrom]

So you are claiming this wasn't set to 4/2 now?

It was set up incorrectly. Terry explained very clearly what you did wrong. You had to actively reconfigure the JB4. 4/3 is the default.

You are a pro tuner and can't figure out that you are nerfing the JB4? Come on. Are you saying the average JB4 owning enthusiast is better able to configure a simple plug in tuner, yet you also want to fine tune people's ECUs? COME ON MAN. Thats BS. Either you are willfully messing up the settings, or you are incompetent...pick your poison.

[proTUNING Freaks]

Originally Posted by GR1P

Bogus results

/thread

Results presented are simply as presented and certainly valid. They demonstrate off the shelf JB4 maps with and without a backend flash. Backend flash was run with the JB4 on setting 4-2 as the customer came in to dyno with it in place as has already been posted about by the customer on n54tech and e90post.

We have also demonstrated Cobb OTS Stage 2+ Aggressive map results and one form of our custom tuning. All of this was done same day, same car, same modifications, same dyno, same octane.

Originally Posted by darkrom

So you are claiming this wasn't set to 4/2 now?

It was set up incorrectly. Terry explained very clearly what you did wrong. You had to actively reconfigure the JB4. 4/3 is the default.

You are a pro tuner and can't figure out that you are nerfing the JB4? Come on. Are you saying the average JB4 owning enthusiast is better able to configure a simple plug in tuner, yet you also want to fine tune people's ECUs? COME ON MAN. Thats BS. Either you are willfully messing up the settings, or you are incompetent...pick your poison.

We were surprised just as you are when we actually learned of this setting on the JB4 as it isn't documented in terms of what it actually does. This has also been discussed already on this and the other forum.

We have been around the N54 since 2007 and have used almost every tune that has ever come out for this motor. We have been exclusively running with and custom tuning using the Cobb platform since 2011. Stacking of piggyback and flash tunes was in fact introduced by our tuners to this platform and we have tuned countless road course cars, dedicated race teams, supported aftermarket hardware manufacturers on this platform. For some of our work you're welcome to look at our Facebook page, Blog or Google search. Here's a link to our Facebook page:

http://www.facebook.com/protuningfreaks

A little bit of history: For a very long time we have not used or recommended the JB4 due to its inability to log timing corrections (knock) across all 6 cylinders. If it had this ability we would have adopted it as a form of boost control for those looking to run such a tune on their car a long time ago. After years of pushing BMS for this complex to add feature it was recently added with support for a few ROMs. We are hopeful to see it expand to all N54 ROMs as our support for JB stacked tuning will only involve those ROMs where knock can be logged and monitored in its entirety across all 6 cylinders and not just cylinder 1.

We did not know of the 4-2 vs. 4-3 setting on the JB4 as we frankly are just about to get started to build our custom backend flash support for the JB for those that are looking to go that route. Please advise BMS to update their user guide as it is still out of date:

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10605

The 4-2 and 4-3 settings still indicate nothing about backend flash related boost targetting even today.



Having said that we will certainly be back on the dyno to gather data on the 4-3 settings and compare the runs to the 4-2 setting and provide it to the community as we feel this information would round off the off the shelf dyno gathering and make it complete.

Lastly we'd like to share the customer feedback from n54tech.com who came to us with his car for custom tuning after having a JB4 on his car and running a BMS backend race flash:

Originally Posted by triggz

I am the owner of the car that was dyno'd

The reason the car was left in 4/2 was because previously I had the BMS Race Flash installed to go with my meth injection. 4/2 was smoother for my daily driving needs, plus it was my thought that everyone running high load maps were on 4/2.

I decided to try Cobb/PTF and see the difference so I contacted Dzenno. Dzenno had no idea about 4/2 and I completely forgot to change the setting as I didn't know it would decrease power. Trust me, when I saw the results I was very confused but I didn't care because my priority was getting dyno tuned for pump gas.

Dzenno had given me a very basic Meth map in the summer which we didn't dyno-tune and it had much more torque and a better curve compared to Map7 and 65add. I never messed with map6 settings as I'm not a pro at this and I didn't want to screw anything up. I'd also like to mention that logging the meth map had given me ZERO timing corrections with Dzenno's tune doing a multiple gear pull.

I'm sure the numbers can be had with JB4 but you probably need Map6 for that and I just felt more comfortable having a professional tune my car.

My goal for the dyno session was to have a pump gas map that I can use when meth isn't available. The map kicks ass!! 480wtq on pump gas is unreal and it's a night/day difference compared to Map2/5. I can't wait for our next session so we can dyno-tune JB4/PTF stack, hopefully I can get my hands on some race gas for a full race flash as well.

It's really sad how the threads turned out because I know for a fact this wasn't Dzenno's intentions. He really wanted to help the community with data based on one car with the same mods, same conditions, and same dyno.

If anything, blame me for not having 4/3 set.....