Dinan ECU Tune?

[3er]

Does anyone know if Dinan is hard at work at cracking the F8x ECU or are they settling on the piggyback approach?

If their ultimate goal is to crack the ECU, does anyone have insight on their progress/timing (i.e., how close they are)? I suspect they would devote more resources/people to escalate progress on the F8x over the F10 given their sale potential.

[shortseller]

Do a search here and you will find a few have already installed and reported back. He's a step in the right direction for you. http://dinancars.com/products/?serie...3-f80&mid=1178

[Richy Rich]

Originally Posted by shortseller

Do a search here and you will find a few have already installed and reported back. He's a step in the right direction for you. http://dinancars.com/products/?serie...3-f80&mid=1178

ECU, not piggyback.

[Boss330]

Can't imagine Dinan trying to break encryption by their own when euro tuners already have done so and are now making that available also for international release... See other threads on this subject.

If Dinan wants to do ECU Tuning they can just buy the available solution!

[GOLFFRR]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Can't imagine Dinan trying to break encryption by their own when euro tuners already have done so and are now making that available also for international release... See other threads on this subject.

If Dinan wants to do ECU Tuning they can just buy the available solution!

It has been proven the ECU has been cracked? Nice, I have not seen that anywhere. Can you post up the link? I would love to read up on that.

[EuroKar]

Same here... What company is offering a true ECU flash for performance ?
And as for Dinan, I would recommend contacting them directly and asking those questions. They always give insight to what they are accomplishing and their goals for each vehicle.

[3er]

Originally Posted by EuroKar

Same here... What company is offering a true ECU flash for performance ?
And as for Dinan, I would recommend contacting them directly and asking those questions. They always give insight to what they are accomplishing and their goals for each vehicle.

Good tip - I just shot them an email and hope to hear back. If/when I do, I'll post it here.

In the meantime, here's a video Dinan put out about ECU vs. piggyback tuning. It very much seems to contradict their current approach of piggybacking the F8x.

[Dinan_Engineering]

Originally Posted by 3er

Good tip - I just shot them an email and hope to hear back. If/when I do, I'll post it here.

In the meantime, here's a video Dinan put out about ECU vs. piggyback tuning. It very much seems to contradict their current approach of piggybacking the F8x.

The DINANTRONICS Performance Tuner is the only tuning option for the foreseeable future from Dinan. While I wouldn't rule out an eventual ECU flash, as who knows what may happen down the line, I wouldn't count on one either.

[3er]

Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering

The DINANTRONICS Performance Tuner is the only tuning option for the foreseeable future from Dinan. While I wouldn't rule out an eventual ECU flash, as who knows what may happen down the line, I wouldn't count on one either.

Thanks very much for the reply! Are y'all able to tune the "preferred" parameters with the piggyback (fuel, timing, etc.)? It appears from the video that there are some shortcomings with a piggyback vs. ECU tune.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by GOLFFRR

It has been proven the ECU has been cracked? Nice, I have not seen that anywhere. Can you post up the link? I would love to read up on that.

Thought "everyone" had catched up on this news now...

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1065967

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1073144

And "original" post about encryption being broken:

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1019375

[GOLFFRR]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Thought "everyone" had catched up on this news now...

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1065967

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1073144

And "original" post about encryption being broken:

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1019375

cool ill take a look thanks!

[teamwerx]

Originally Posted by GOLFFRR

cool ill take a look thanks!

There's nothing in any of those that have definitive proof golf.

The original post was snake oil.

Lots of information in regards to m5 thus far, but still little to no customer reviews.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by teamwerx

There's nothing in any of those that have definitive proof golf.

The original post was snake oil.

Lots of information in regards to m5 thus far, but still little to no customer reviews.

Leib is genuine and def not snake oil!

We have one customer that is a member here and that has posted his personal experience with Leib tuning his M5. Not sure what they have for the F8x though.

The other company has multiple European customers that has tried the tune. We also now have US tuners such as EAS confirming that a ECU tune is now available and possible.

[GOLFFRR]

Originally Posted by teamwerx

There's nothing in any of those that have definitive proof golf.

The original post was snake oil.

Lots of information in regards to m5 thus far, but still little to no customer reviews.

I def will start to follow and see. for me I will wait to see some reviews come out and let others be the ginny pigs. Once I see a few reviews from members I know are not selling stuff then maybe I will take the plunge. I really am just interested in deleting the cold start. Im not really interested in performance at this time. I am more then happy with my ESS piggy I have now.

def going to follow the threads though and see how it all un folds

[redfox]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Leib is genuine and def not snake oil!

We have one customer that is a member here and that has posted his personal experience with Leib tuning his M5. Not sure what they have for the F8x though.

The other company has multiple European customers that has tried the tune. We also now have US tuners such as EAS confirming that a ECU tune is now available and possible.

Again, no proof. A lot of talk without actual cars with tunes and results. I don't recall EAS saying that they have a software tune. Please point us to thread.

[EuroKar]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Leib is genuine and def not snake oil!

We have one customer that is a member here and that has posted his personal experience with Leib tuning his M5. Not sure what they have for the F8x though.

The other company has multiple European customers that has tried the tune. We also now have US tuners such as EAS confirming that a ECU tune is now available and possible.

What tuning company are you referring to that has a ECU flash ?

[teamwerx]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Leib is genuine and def not snake oil!

We have one customer that is a member here and that has posted his personal experience with Leib tuning his M5. Not sure what they have for the F8x though.

The other company has multiple European customers that has tried the tune. We also now have US tuners such as EAS confirming that a ECU tune is now available and possible.

The thread you posted is the most snake oil of all. Leib hasn't been on the forum and they don't have any customer cars on this forum. If that's false point us into a real thread with real facts.

So far with the exception of br, and maybe jailbreak, everyone just posts links to their Facebook page.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by redfox

Again, no proof. A lot of talk without actual cars with tunes and results. I don't recall EAS saying that they have a software tune. Please point us to thread.

See the JailBreak thread and EAS commenting on it I didn't say EAS had a software tune, just that they also confirmed that there is a ECU software flash available now...

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

This is a flash tune. Contacting Jailbreak directly would be the best way to get more info.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by EuroKar

What tuning company are you referring to that has a ECU flash ?

See the links posted previously (just a few posts previous).

Leib and BR, to name two. But this is now available to other tuners as well. Major release on Jan 5th expected on new models.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by teamwerx

The thread you posted is the most snake oil of all. Leib hasn't been on the forum and they don't have any customer cars on this forum. If that's false point us into a real thread with real facts.

So far with the exception of br, and maybe jailbreak, everyone just posts links to their Facebook page.

We have member M-Bitious that had his M5 to Leib. I have linked to his posts several times previously.
Some of his posts (you will find his "Leib posts", including Vbox runs, on the F10 M5 thread I have linked to towards the end of this post):

http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthr...4#post16822654
http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthr...7#post17072077
http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...9#post17106779

And lots of other customers in Germany/mainland Europe.

This forum is mostly US based when it comes to active members, so it's not so strange that we don't see that many Leib customers posting here.

AMS Alpha also confirmed in December (12th) that they now have access to the Fxx ECU. They have a thread on the M5 forums.
http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1067770

Anyway, it's not me who has cracked the encryption so if you choose to believe it or not, that's entirely up to you guys There is now a good number of euro Fxx owners with software flashed ECU's!

BTW, the current solution requires the ECU to be removed from the car and opened to access the electronics. This way they can read the password. Once password has been established, the ECU can be programmed on the bench. No OBD flash possible yet. OBD flash ability requires a huge amount of work apparently due to security measures etc integrated in the OBD port. This is apparently the way AMG tuning has operated for years now, so it's a proven method of tuning, but perhaps a bit more intimidating than just a OBD flash...

Thread on a BR tuned M5:

http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1066353

The Leib thread on the M5 forum, with member M-Bitious' car tuned:

http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1019376

Also note the following info from a US tuner on that thread:

Originally Posted by PedM5

Hello,

Figured I'd chime in since I'm being mentioned by name in here.

Thanks for searching and finding those posts that was interesting to read how I got started in tuning again. For the record, I was an enthusiast who was jerked around by tuners like most people, couldn't sort the BS from the real deal and after that post you quoted where I was left high and dry by powerchip not being able to get smogged I started learning how to tune myself. I did work for powerchip and tried very hard to improve their sales and support as well as their tuning. Powerchip's owner had a famous melt down but also the ex employees were doing a lot to try and destroy powerchip long before wayne destroyed it himself and it no longer made sense for me to try to save a sinking ship so I left. The last two months of my employment we were only selling E39 M5 tunes because of my personal reputation on the board everyone else had stopped calling.

I have been tuning as a career since then for many companies but after powerchip, I felt it better for me to do primarily wholesale tunes in the form of private/white labeling. I also worked for a well known Mercedes tuner here in SoCal and then BBI Autosport before starting my own company. I know how to tune lots of cars not just BMW, not just Mercedes and not just Porsche, so it's nice to be able to provide solutions for everyone for a change as well as apply knowledge from one marque to the next. Sometimes this industry is very hard to tolerate as there is a lot of shady people wheeling and dealing here and it is very stressful (this is why I have so much gray hair...or at least that's my excuse for it) so I preferred to stay out of the spotlight.

Back on the subject of tuning, the new Mercedes CLA45 AMG that we cracked has the same type of tuner protection as the F series bmw's so after we finished tuning the new AMG we decided to revisit the BMW world. We will probably rejoin the forums in 2015 now that we have something new to provide the community. I was kicked off M5board because I was not a sponsor but there was constant posts about my products, as such other vendors complained and got me banned. I still sell a lot of E39 M5 tunes so it didn't make sense to sponsor the forum for one product and the way the forum mods and owners treated me also made me not want to give them any money. Water under the bridge


I apologize for not setting a consumer website up earlier but for my wholesale accounts I had no need for a website as my dealers contact me directly and I spend most of my time on product development not web development.

As far as tuning the F series cars, there is a lot of healthy skepticism out there, but yes it is possible to flash a custom tune in an F10 M5, F8x M4, etc. The tuning protection for these ECU's is extremely hard to get by and requires a bit more work than just having a bench flashing device. As stated by someone else, opening the ECU's to flash them is par for the course now as Bosch and Siemens have been locking out the ability to read via OBD2 for quite a while now. The AMG's MED17 needs to be opened and there is no reason to be scared as long as your tuner knows what they're doing. I personally don't drill the ECU's but some tuners do either to save time or because they have a problem with breaking the boards when opening them. I will tell you however that the twin ECU's in the F10 M5 are the absolute hardest to open out of any ECU I've ever seen in my life. Luckily I've been opening ECU's since I started and it's nothing new to me. There will eventually be a way to flash them without removing the ECU's but that will take some time, look how long it took to get bench flashing going! It is the normal life cycle of a new generation of ECU's, when the E39 M5 first came out you had to pull the chips off and reflash them manually too and it wasn't until they were almost out of production that there was a very easy and widely available way to flash them OBD2. There was also a lot of false starts for flashing the F series cars but that's because someone shady was selling every tuner including me a method of flashing BMW signed files like the press file and anniversary file which would be loaded via ESYS OBD2. There is also a way to flash in an editable file OBD2 but there is problems with this method as well and of course the people that have access to such files want an arm and a leg for it.

I've attached a screen shot of a hexdump for an M4 we have been playing with. It shows one of the VMAX maps and the area which contains the rev limit or NMAX. You apply a conversion factor of .25 to the values of 32000 to get the rev limit of 8000RPM. There is obviously different rev limits for different conditions including limp modes which is why there are so many here. I apologize for not taking the time to identify the maps individually in winols I just had no intention of changing the rev limit so it would be a waste of my time. I'd also love to show you the fun parts but I don't want to give away 2 years of blood sweat and tears to get to this point. I also attached the M4 hexdump and not the M5 because there has been a stock F10 M5 file floating around for a while now that anyone can get ahold of, the M4 is harder to come by.

Anyways thanks for letting me chime in guys, it's an exciting time for the community again now that there is a way to get rid of those pesky warning lights on the dash and maximize the potential of these machines. The AMG guys have been going largely uncontested for a while now, will be interesting to see a fully done up 63 AMG vs f10 M5 here in U.S. soil

Originally Posted by PedM5

Thank you sir



You are very welcome



I have seen that post and until a month or so ago I had not heard of them either but they are definitely able to tune the f series cars.

The way the industry works is there is a flow-down of information, tools, knowledge etc. and it is always released in Europe first as they are closer to the information, but even amongst European tuners there's kind of a hierarchy. The people closest to the release of information are obviously the first to have support either with OEM tools or a backdoor provided by a manufacturer of ECU's, then information is leaked either friend to friend or sold at great expense. The first time I got a quote for the ability to unlock the new tuner protection ecu's I was quoted 400,000 euro

There was a major industry info leak that provide support for F-series cars this past week but so far only diesel models are the only one's widely supported by companies like CMD, Dimsport, etc. The guys who can do the petrol models have something a bit harder to come by. I suspect most tuners now that are claiming to tune the new ECU's are sending them out to Europe to get unlocked and then tuning them which can take 2 weeks or more. We can do it in house same day

Just like the Benz market a lot of tuners drill the ECU's, it's a lot faster but there's also a lot of drawbacks. I think that's an important question to ask your tuner if you are considering tuning. The location of the ECU's on the F10 especially with coolant lines everywhere makes it risky to have a hole in your ECU cover. I personally have never drilled but I understand why other tuners do.

The big issue with having an OBD2 port flash right now is that the flexray system BMW has incorporated is a disruptive technology, it required new hardware and the tuning market is slow to adapt; However, as I said before there will be a solution that won't require ECU removal perhaps sooner rather than later.

-

[FC4]

Originally Posted by Boss330

See the links posted previously (just a few posts previous).

Leib and BR, to name two. But this is now available to other tuners as well. Major release on Jan 5th expected on new models.

Again, all vaporware. Everyone always has a "major announcement coming soon!" On January 5th, the silence will be deafening.

There is nothing material regarding tuning these ECUs and there is still no indication of significant progress. Those threads are nothing but a group of people blowing smoke up each others' ass.

The latest to jump on the bandwagon is "Jailbreak tuning." Check out the post about them below...the OP's post has a link to their Facebook page with real good info that he first saw breaking on Instagram.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by FC4

Again, all vaporware. Everyone always has a "major announcement coming soon!" On January 5th, the silence will be deafening.

There is nothing material regarding tuning these ECUs and there is still no indication of significant progress. Those threads are nothing but a group of people blowing smoke up each others' ass.

The latest to jump on the bandwagon is "Jailbreak tuning." Check out the post about them below...the OP's post has a link to their Facebook page with real good info that he first saw breaking on Instagram.

Are you saying that all the euro customers aren't real?

A conspiracy from the europeans on the various forums here that have had their Fxx tuned by these companies?