Track Review, LapTimes, Video, F82 vs. E36 Round #2

[MaynardZed]

     Featured on BIMMERPOST.com

I had my M4 and E36 M3 track car out to Wild Horse Pass East Track this past weekend. This is the second time I've had the M4 on a track and it surpassed my expectations immensely. This is the most track ready M car ever built IMO.

Specs:

E36 M3: 248 rwhp (S52), 3154 total weight w/ driver = 12.7 w/p ratio
Hankook Z214 C71 245/35/18, GC full race suspension, EBC yellow, stock rotors, half cage, Full containment OMP race seat, brake and oil coolers

F82 M4: 415 rwhp (S55), 3761 total weight w/ driver = 9.1 w/p ratio
Toyo R888 265/30/19 & 295/30/19, Carbotech XP 12/10






Saturday: Started with the E36 in the morning, getting in practice for the days hot lap sessions. Car was working great and ended up with a personal best 105.637 for the day, beating my old PB by 2 seconds.

Bimmerpost board member pruettfan stopped by to check things out and I offered him a ride along in one of the HDPE sessions. He jumped at the chance, but as we were strapping ourselves into the E36 I noticed the windshield was severely cracked and thought better of taking him out on the track in that condition. I hated for him to miss a ridealong, so I said let's jump in the M4! We quickly got the extra junk out of it and headed to the paddock. The car did great, and we slowly built up speed each lap as the car is so easy to be confident in. We stayed out for about 12-15 minutes until the car started to push a little too much as I suspected tire temps were creeping up. In our haste getting started I forgot to let air out of the tires and were 40 psi in both front tires when we came off. Pruettfan said he had a great time, he was holding his chest and seemed a little weak in the knees when he got out though.

Later in the afternoon I took the M4 out solo and pushed her harder. Had Harry's hooked up and when I checked it, it said my best lap was 106.51. I was a little suspicious but there were a lot of 1:07s and 1:08s also, so it seemed plausible. I was thinking going into the weekend, if I could get the M4 under 1:10 I would be impressed so I was blown away by the time.

Video of the M4 Saturday afternoon. Sorry, I couldn't get by that LS powered Hyundai Genesis abomination, so all you hear is his V8.

Sunday: More time trials in the E36, as it was determined the cracked windshield is good to go. Bested my PB a little more to 105.321 but couldn't quite keep up with Rick and Hal who were running low 1:04s in my HL2 group. All three of us beat easily the higher powered HL1 cars though (they were running 1:07s), but lost to the Porsche Cup cars running HL0 (of course). I came to find out later that Rick holds the track record in NASA TTB and Hal holds the record for NASA TTD, so no shame in losing to those two guys.

Getting hot and tired Sunday afternoon, so took the M4 for another spin in HDPE. Much more comfortable sitting in the paddock in the nice air conditioned M4 than the track car. The problem is, I forgot to turn the A/C off before I went on the track. I ran the entire 20 minute session with the A/C on full max. I ran a bunch of high 1:06s and low 1:07s so was still pushing it pretty hard. A bunch of the Corvettes were having overheating problems, so they pulled off early or were limping around the track. The amazing thing is, when I got back to the pits I finally noticed that I forgot to turn the A/C off but yet the temp gauge DID NOT BUDGE! The cooling systems on this car are incredible!

In summary, this car is absolutely amazing! Only 1 second behind my E36 and 2-3 seconds behind course record holders is simply jawdropping for any mostly stock car.

[FTS]

Another such positive feedback from the track. You guys are making the wait so much worse

Glad you had good time, looking forward to more vids

[SakhirM4]

Thanks, OP, and congrats on the times

[dawgdog]

This post made my day. Tires and pads and doing great times with the comfort of AC!!
What brake fluid are you using? Thanks again for your post.

[karussell]

Originally Posted by MaynardZed

I had my M4 and E36 M3 track car out to Wild Horse Pass East Track this past weekend. This is the second time I've had the M4 on a track and it surpassed my expectations immensely. This is the most track ready M car ever built IMO.

Specs:

E36 M3: 248 rwhp (S52), 3154 total weight w/ driver = 12.7 w/p ratio
Hankook Z214 C71 245/35/18, GC full race suspension, EBC yellow, stock rotors, half cage, Full containment OMP race seat, brake and oil coolers

F82 M4: 415 rwhp (S55), 3761 total weight w/ driver = 9.1 w/p ratio
Toyo R888 265/30/19 & 295/30/19, Carbotech XP 12/10

Attachment 1101034

Saturday: Started with the E36 in the morning, getting in practice for the days hot lap sessions. Car was working great and ended up with a personal best 105.637 for the day, beating my old PB by 2 seconds.

Bimmerpost board member pruettfan stopped by to check things out and I offered him a ride along in one of the HDPE sessions. He jumped at the chance, but as we were strapping ourselves into the E36 I noticed the windshield was severely cracked and thought better of taking him out on the track in that condition. I hated for him to miss a ridealong, so I said let's jump in the M4! We quickly got the extra junk out of it and headed to the paddock. The car did great, and we slowly built up speed each lap as the car is so easy to be confident in. We stayed out for about 12-15 minutes until the car started to push a little too much as I suspected tire temps were creeping up. In our haste getting started I forgot to let air out of the tires and were 40 psi in both front tires when we came off. Pruettfan said he had a great time, he was holding his chest and seemed a little weak in the knees when he got out though.

Later in the afternoon I took the M4 out solo and pushed her harder. Had Harry's hooked up and when I checked it, it said my best lap was 106.51. I was a little suspicious but there were a lot of 1:07s and 1:08s also, so it seemed plausible. I was thinking going into the weekend, if I could get the M4 under 1:10 I would be impressed so I was blown away by the time.

Video of the M4 Saturday afternoon. Sorry, I couldn't get by that LS powered Hyundai Genesis abomination, so all you hear is his V8.

Sunday: More time trials in the E36, as it was determined the cracked windshield is good to go. Bested my PB a little more to 105.321 but couldn't quite keep up with Rick and Hal who were running low 1:04s in my HL2 group. All three of us beat easily the higher powered HL1 cars though (they were running 1:07s), but lost to the Porsche Cup cars running HL0 (of course). I came to find out later that Rick holds the track record in NASA TTB and Hal holds the record for NASA TTD, so no shame in losing to those two guys.

Getting hot and tired Sunday afternoon, so took the M4 for another spin in HDPE. Much more comfortable sitting in the paddock in the nice air conditioned M4 than the track car. The problem is, I forgot to turn the A/C off before I went on the track. I ran the entire 20 minute session with the A/C on full max. I ran a bunch of high 1:06s and low 1:07s so was still pushing it pretty hard. A bunch of the Corvettes were having overheating problems, so they pulled off early or were limping around the track. The amazing thing is, when I got back to the pits I finally noticed that I forgot to turn the A/C off but yet the temp gauge DID NOT BUDGE! The cooling systems on this car are incredible!

In summary, this car is absolutely amazing! Only 1 second behind my E36 and 2-3 seconds behind course record holders is simply jawdropping for any mostly stock car.

great report. the cooling on this car is outstanding. love your e36. miss mine. they seem about similar weight. just imagine what the m4 can do with 300lbs less in it. interesting you fit 295's on 10 inch oem rims? i know R888's run a little bit narrower than MPSC's.

[BCMgunner]

OP, still running the 15/12 spacers with the 265/295 combo?

Do you run those carbotechs in your daily driving?

Any issues with any of the above?

Great work! Keep it up!

[MaynardZed]

Originally Posted by dawgdog

This post made my day. Tires and pads and doing great times with the comfort of AC!!
What brake fluid are you using? Thanks again for your post.

Leaving the A/C on was kind of a goof up, but amazed that engine temps never got warm. It was about 98 degrees ambient temp for that session. Even my E36 was pushing at tad over 3/4 on the temp gauge at the end of sessions. Still on stock brake fluid.

Originally Posted by BCMgunner

OP, still running the 15/12 spacers with the 265/295 combo?

Do you run those carbotechs in your daily driving?

Any issues with any of the above?

Great work! Keep it up!

Ran the 12mm spacer up front, none in the rear. No problems, torque before each session.

Carbotechs finally stopped squealing after running them on the track. Got them smoking after the sessions, and they held up great! No good (too loud and grabby) for the street though, will be switching back to OEM when I get a chance.

Only issues with the M4 was that I believe one of the wheel weights fell off due to the heat, because driving home I felt some shimmying on the highway. No shimmy on the way to the track. Maybe tire glob in there too? Gotta get wheels off and inspect.

Other minor issue was I found myself searching for 3rd gear coming from 2nd on upshifts a couple of times. Probably just a function of my proprioception being off a tad since I was switching back and forth between the 2 cars?

[BCMgunner]

Thanks OP!

Proprioception... sensation of position of limb in space. Via dorsal column IIRC. Haha

[TahoeM3]

How much difference did you notice with the larger tires vs stock? I think tires are the first thing I'm going to change on this car.

[MaynardZed]

Quick funny side story from the weekend:

My dad (healthy 67 year old) races Formula Ford and usually is a tad quicker than me in my E36. He couldn't quite beat me this weekend (I think his best lap was 106.2), but he had a built in excuse. In his qualifying race, his fuel tank started leaking (you're sitting on it in those cars) and the aviation fuel soaked through the bottom of his race suit. He kept running while trying to lift his butt off the seat, but he pulled off eventually not able withstand the pain anymore.

When he came back in it was discovered that the fuel had given him about a 12" diameter chemical burn on the bottom of his butt. They fixed the car and he went out for the final race anyway later in the afternoon. He wasn't real quick and spun off once, but finished the race through the pain. I was standing watching the race with Jens (FF pit boss) and noted that my dad wasn't doing so great, but he replied "he sure is working his ass off though!".

[pruettfan]

I can certainly verify that the M4 is amazing on the track. MaynardZed is also a hell of a driver. I expected the M4 to be really fast in terms of accelleration but was perhaps most impressed by the braking power and cornering stability. In the hands of an experienced driver the car is really impressive. I also had a chance to watch him driving his E36 in a group with C6 ZO6 vettes and a GTR and I was amazed at how fast that car was. He was able to keep pace with the ZO6 pretty much for the entire lap. It really showed me that having a properly set up track car regardless of the HP can be really quick. MaynardZed is a hell of a nice guy and I can't say how appreciative I am that he was willing to invite a total stranger to spend some time with him and take a ride in his beautiful new M4. Of course I am not sure my wife would agree because I have been driving her crazy with my plans to track my of E90 330i and to purchase a E92 M3 as soon as she graduates from medical school and take that one to the track also. I look forward to joining you at the track in a month or so. Thanks again!!

[RingMeister01]

Great feed back OP.

[MaynardZed]

Originally Posted by TahoeM3

How much difference did you notice with the larger tires vs stock? I think tires are the first thing I'm going to change on this car.

Let's put it this way, I was 9 seconds behind my E36 with the PSS on the M4 at INDE (albeit the track was twice as long), but I was only 1 second behind the E36 with the Toyo R888s on the M4. Most of the improvement in grip is because of stickier tire compound, not wider tire width though.

Originally Posted by pruettfan

I can certainly verify that the M4 is amazing on the track. MaynardZed is also a hell of a driver. I expected the M4 to be really fast in terms of accelleration but was perhaps most impressed by the braking power and cornering stability. In the hands of an experienced driver the car is really impressive. I also had a chance to watch him driving his E36 in a group with C6 ZO6 vettes and a GTR and I was amazed at how fast that car was. He was able to keep pace with the ZO6 pretty much for the entire lap. It really showed me that having a properly set up track car regardless of the HP can be really quick. MaynardZed is a hell of a nice guy and I can't say how appreciative I am that he was willing to invite a total stranger to spend some time with him and take a ride in his beautiful new M4. Of course I am not sure my wife would agree because I have been driving her crazy with my plans to track my of E90 330i and to purchase a E92 M3 as soon as she graduates from medical school and take that one to the track also. I look forward to joining you at the track in a month or so. Thanks again!!

Great to have you out! See you again soon.

Originally Posted by RingMeister01

Great feed back OP.

Thanks

[eMvy]

Originally Posted by MaynardZed

The problem is, I forgot to turn the A/C off before I went on the track. I ran the entire 20 minute session with the A/C on full max. I ran a bunch of high 1:06s and low 1:07s so was still pushing it pretty hard. A bunch of the Corvettes were having overheating problems, so they pulled off early or were limping around the track. The amazing thing is, when I got back to the pits I finally noticed that I forgot to turn the A/C off but yet the temp gauge DID NOT BUDGE! The cooling systems on this car are incredible!

When I pointed out that the driver had the AC on during the MT Laguna Seca hot lap, the forum consensus was that the compressor cuts out during WOT, therefore no parasitic power loss or impact to lap time.

Do you have a different opinion?

Best,

[MaynardZed]

Originally Posted by eMvy

When I pointed out that the driver had the AC on during the MT Laguna Seca hot lap, the forum consensus was that the compressor cuts out during WOT, therefore no parasitic power loss or impact to lap time.

Do you have a different opinion?

Best,

No idea. Windows are required to be down during the session (apparently much different than drag racing) so couldn't tell if A/C was cutting out or not. Did not notice any difference in power, so it's possible it was cutting out on WOT.

[JoeFromPA]

Awesome review. A few comments:

- Engine's get all the headlines, but BMW said they put a very heavy focus on cooling. Now they can make those claims and whether it's marketing or not is simply hard to quantify. But I think much like their chassis claims, they truly followed through on cooling.

How many high performance cars, even naturally aspirated (like the e9x m3) can handle 30 minute hot laps without their temps budging? But cooling also goes to the trans, diff, and braking. Seems like the DCT also stays cool and obviously we're seeing the iron brakes are just superb for staying cool or cooling off quickly.

Cooling won't grab any headlines but man....we've got here an engine based off the very solid N54/N55 platform and harmonically balanced I6 that BMW does so well, and with rock solid temperature control despite being dramatically stepped up in power.

That is a recipe for longevity and track day fun like none other I can think of short of Porsche's F6 platforms.

- The tire results claimed here speak to the possibilities of the stock chassis. Obviously the engine can overwhelm the stock tires/chassis, which is alot of fun, but the gains possible with just the tires speak to how much untapped potential is sitting on the line.

I'm not a big fan of all the guessing around a ZCP package/perf package, since the e90 one was mainly NOT a performance package, but the F80/F82 seems to have so much left on the table that is accessible with tires alone....makes me think BMW might have under-tired it also for performance package options down the line. Like a much wider tire with a revised offset/hub setup to change the dynamics so maybe 295/305s fit with stock clearances in the rear.

...

Really excited to get my f80 out on the track come spring time.

[MaynardZed]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Awesome review. A few comments:

- Engine's get all the headlines, but BMW said they put a very heavy focus on cooling. Now they can make those claims and whether it's marketing or not is simply hard to quantify. But I think much like their chassis claims, they truly followed through on cooling.

How many high performance cars, even naturally aspirated (like the e9x m3) can handle 30 minute hot laps without their temps budging? But cooling also goes to the trans, diff, and braking. Seems like the DCT also stays cool and obviously we're seeing the iron brakes are just superb for staying cool or cooling off quickly.

Cooling won't grab any headlines but man....we've got here an engine based off the very solid N54/N55 platform and harmonically balanced I6 that BMW does so well, and with rock solid temperature control despite being dramatically stepped up in power.

That is a recipe for longevity and track day fun like none other I can think of short of Porsche's F6 platforms.

- The tire results claimed here speak to the possibilities of the stock chassis. Obviously the engine can overwhelm the stock tires/chassis, which is alot of fun, but the gains possible with just the tires speak to how much untapped potential is sitting on the line.

I'm not a big fan of all the guessing around a ZCP package/perf package, since the e90 one was mainly NOT a performance package, but the F80/F82 seems to have so much left on the table that is accessible with tires alone....makes me think BMW might have under-tired it also for performance package options down the line. Like a much wider tire with a revised offset/hub setup to change the dynamics so maybe 295/305s fit with stock clearances in the rear.

...

Really excited to get my f80 out on the track come spring time.

All good points, Joe. You'll have a blast with it on the track.

I'll say too that the DCT would be a tad quicker of course, but I'm so happy with the 6MT for track use. Just gives me a feeling that there's one less thing that can break on a track day.

Can't wait to get some dedicated track wheels too. Kind of waiting for APEX to work out fitments for F8x. I've used their wheels on my E36, and they've done great.

[VMRWheels]

Excellent writeup! Thanks for sharing!

E36 looks awesome BTW

[vladberca]

Share more clips from your next event. Congrats for using your cars in this way!

[e92_m3]

It's amazing what grippier tires can do.

Excellent write up!

[Shuttlegoose]

Can't believe they let you out in shorts!

[norMcal]

It is pretty amazing that these new generation of sports cars are as fast as the older track prepped counterparts. Great story!

I recently had a similar experience at a HDPE with my buddy in his new Cayman S (with Ceramic Brakes). I have a track oriented E30 M3 with S52 swap and pretty much all the goodies you can think off. The car is still street legal, but has a lot of unnecessary things removed......in short, it weighs about 2660 lbs and makes about 270 hp and I run on Nitto NT 01's.
My buddy and I ran virtually the same lap times, yet his Cayman is bone stock and on the stock Bridgestone Potenza's. Pretty impressive considering the weight and tire disadvantage. Just goes to show you how far the new cars have come in the last 20 years