Taking a supercharger kit off, any worries?

[jblaze21]

I'm looking at purchasing a M3 that's had a supercharger kit on the past 3000 miles or so. I don't want the kit and he's willing to part it to reduce the price but I'm wondering if there's anything to be concerned about afterwards.

He's going to have the shop tune it with an ESS flash since the SC is being removed so that should be ok and should have all the coding I want done, etc since it also has test pipes. However, I'm wondering if there's any other reasons to be concerned about an engine after taking a SC kit off?

Thanks.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by jblaze21

I'm looking at purchasing a M3 that's had a supercharger kit on the past 3000 miles or so. I don't want the kit and he's willing to part it to reduce the price but I'm wondering if there's anything to be concerned about afterwards.

He's going to have the shop tune it with an ESS flash since the SC is being removed so that should be ok and should have all the coding I want done, etc since it also has test pipes. However, I'm wondering if there's any other reasons to be concerned about an engine after taking a SC kit off?

Thanks.

No issues, owner should have his original file (if backed up) or ESS can supply a new stock file.

Make sure the lower D/S air duct is replaced, as this is typically cut to make room for the air filter.

[Ezio]

just wondering? why not keep the S/C ?

[MFL]

Which kit is he pulling off?

It's completely revertible. Is the car still under warranty? If not, I would get a third party warranty on it.

[JYTsky]

i might be interested in the kit hes taking off

[jblaze21]

Originally Posted by Ezio

just wondering? why not keep the S/C ?

Budget. The kit prices me out of the car, with it off I'm on the edge of my budget. Also I don't track or plan on racing the car at all, just going to be my daily so I wouldn't get much use out of a 13k SC kit around town.

Originally Posted by MFL

Which kit is he pulling off?

It's completely revertible. Is the car still under warranty? If not, I would get a third party warranty on it.

ESS VT2-650

Originally Posted by JYTsky

i might be interested in the kit hes taking off

I will let him know.

[jblaze21]

Originally Posted by tom @ eas

No issues, owner should have his original file (if backed up) or ESS can supply a new stock file.

Make sure the lower D/S air duct is replaced, as this is typically cut to make room for the air filter.

Thanks for the info. He's not going to put the stock flash back on but rather a new stage 2 ESS tune with coding, etc.

[JPH704]

Originally Posted by Ezio

just wondering? why not keep the S/C ?

^this.

Negotiate including it. More than likely he's going to have to pay uninstall and for your custom tune. You'll be much happier you left it on

[JEllis]

See my thread about "non-routine maintenance".

To be fair, intercooled kits are not 100% reversable (maybe 90%)... meaning, once the kit is removed there will in fact be evidence that there was an SC installed.

All intercooled kits require cutting of the front clip. Some shops completely remove the lower portion of the clip while other just trim it. In either case, a significant amount of plastic reinforcement is removed from the lower portion of the clip to make room for the heat exchanger. If it was an air/air intercooler kit like AA or Evolve then the majority of the front clip is modified to make room.

A new front clip is $500-1000 depending on your source. Replacing it requires a few hours of labor. If you want all signs of a supercharger kit removed then the front clip needs to be changed out. Again, see my thread, I explain the process and post pictures when I changed my VT2 kit back to a VT1.

[jblaze21]

Originally Posted by DTM Fan

^this.

Negotiate including it. More than likely he's going to have to pay uninstall and for your custom tune. You'll be much happier you left it on

I agree it would be better to have on than not but the difference is 8k in price to me. He would have to pay to have it uninstalled but he's also thrown in a new ESS flash with his SC kit uninstall so at least it will come tuned.

Just not worth 8k to me as I'm just tooling around town most of the time as it's going to be my daily and I'm not going to be @ 6k rpm+ in 35mph zones to take full effect of the SC.

[jblaze21]

Originally Posted by JEllis

See my thread about "non-routine maintenance".

To be fair, intercooled kits are not 100% reversable (maybe 90%)... meaning, once the kit is removed there will in fact be evidence that there was an SC installed.

All intercooled kits require cutting of the front clip. Some shops completely remove the lower portion of the clip while other just trim it. In either case, a significant amount of plastic reinforcement is removed from the lower portion of the clip to make room for the heat exchanger. If it was an air/air intercooler kit like AA or Evolve then the majority of the front clip is modified to make room.

A new front clip is $500-1000 depending on your source. Replacing it requires a few hours of labor. If you want all signs of a supercharger kit removed then the front clip needs to be changed out. Again, see my thread, I explain the process and post pictures when I changed my VT2 kit back to a VT1.

Thanks for the info, I'll check out your thread. I don't mind some "evidence" of a previous SC kit but I would expect everything to be back to normal mechanically and functionally.

[JEllis]

Originally Posted by jblaze21

Thanks for the info, I'll check out your thread. I don't mind some "evidence" of a previous SC kit but I would expect everything to be back to normal mechanically and functionally.

Everything will still be as functional as stock if the clip was only trimmed. If the lower portion of the clip was completely removed then the front center ducting (that is not used with the ESS VT2 kits) will have nothing to clip to. You will be able to tell when you look at the car because there is not duct leading to the oil cooler. I would want that duct in place.

[jblaze21]

Originally Posted by JEllis

Everything will still be as functional as stock if the clip was only trimmed. If the lower portion of the clip was completely removed then the front center ducting (that is not used with the ESS VT2 kits) will have nothing to clip to. You will be able to tell when you look at the car because there is not duct leading to the oil cooler. I would want that duct in place.

Interesting. Hopefully he removed that lower portion of the clip and kept it so it can be reinstalled or it was just trimmed. I will contact him.

[JEllis]

Heres the thread

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=886184

[jblaze21]

Originally Posted by JEllis

Heres the thread

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=886184

Yep, found it eventually. Still not completely sure what I'm looking for but I get the idea that you have to cut out room for the air filter and the clip is apparently to attach the ducting to I assume. So hopefully the ducting and clip were removed and they can reinstall or just trimmed and all should be well. I'll have to talk to him.

[JEllis]

See the below pic at the two sections.

The intake duct is a different story. Just hope the owner kept the original.

9691625810_2a54a3c7b9_b by JMEllis, on Flickr

You can see where I trimmed my original front clip. Notice this is the whole front of the car behind the bumper we are talking about. Notice the area I trimmed. Some shops completely chop this section off.

[jblaze21]

Ah ok now I see the sides cut. That makes more sense, thanks for pointing that out.

What is the air duct to? Or rather, what is it directing air to that requires cooling? Radiator or oil?

[JEllis]

The duct for the air intake is significantly cut. Its the left (drivers side) air inlet when looking at the front bumper.

IMG_0436 by JMEllis, on Flickr

[BobS]

If your not going to keep it on, get a different car imo. If you ever try to sell the car later and are honest, you won't get as many buyers on a 2 owner car that was once supercharged. There are m3's everywhere for sale, i'd be patient and get one that wasn't modded.

Or ..... look at this as a great opportunity to get a 13k supercharger for a steal! Try and keep it on so you can have a very quick car at a fraction of the price to build it yourself.

[slicer]

Originally Posted by jblaze21

Budget. The kit prices me out of the car, with it off I'm on the edge of my budget. Also I don't track or plan on racing the car at all, just going to be my daily so I wouldn't get much use out of a 13k SC kit around town.

In actuality a supercharger is not good on the track. It results in higher engine temperatures and results in heat soak (ultimately the power gains from the supercharger are diminished greatly due to the high heat generated on the track). Additionally it adds weight to the front of the car and alters the balance. Many people run superchargers on the track but it's not what I would recommend for track use. I would recommend a supercharger for the type of person who wants a fast street car; not a track car. A supercharger works well in airstrip events but I honestly don't find those events interesting... My point is that your use is actually better suited for a supercharger than a person who tracks often. The supercharger will of course increase the stress on your motor and all related components and reduce the longevity of the car IMO.

Originally Posted by BobS

If your not going to keep it on, get a different car imo. If you ever try to sell the car later and are honest, you won't get as many buyers on a 2 owner car that was once supercharged. There are m3's everywhere for sale, i'd be patient and get one that wasn't modded.

Or ..... look at this as a great opportunity to get a 13k supercharger for a steal! Try and keep it on so you can have a very quick car at a fraction of the price to build it yourself.

I agree with this. Very good points.

[MilehighM3]

Also keep in mind that the 650 kit pushes the limits of the S65. Assume that it's been driven hard on a regular basis and that it will undoubtedly shorten the life of the engine, as stated above. I would ask for compression and leak down tests to be performed properly a reputable shop prior to agreeing to purchase the car. I would also ask if the car has had any oil analysis tests performed and if so, for the results. It may give you a track record on the car's past, present and a road to the future of the engine. Also consider that the 650 kit requires 93 octane and if that wasn't used at all times. There may be some damage to the engines internals due to detonation if improper octane wasn't used, per ESS' requirements for the kit.