dual open filter, why?

BMWX1-35i · 09-03-2014, 06:13 AM

I have seen plenty of open air filters (dual cone) so my question is this. Why? I understand the more air flow but your pulling warm air in from the engine compartment. I'm not trying to toss an opinion here, just trying to understand why this and not just install a high flow air filter in the OEM box. And just do some work on the bellows in the air path.

Harlequin · 09-03-2014, 06:31 AM

This topic has been done to death about a dozen times over the last 6 years... I recommend you do a search rather than giving people an opportunity for another shitfight...

BMWX1-35i · 09-03-2014, 06:35 AM

I'm not looking for a fight or to start one, I just want to know the reasons behind it. If there is a deference on the dyno numbers, I'm all for it. And I did a search and found nothing but a pissing contest.

Harlequin · 09-03-2014, 06:39 AM

That's the problem. The people who ask the question always do so innocently - with an honest desire for information.

The issue is that all of the opinionated people rock up and START the pissing contest...

Doesn't matter what the truth is. Some people can reproduce gains with CAIs - some can't - some see a drop in performance.

Everybody already has their own opinion and refuses to be swayed by other people - if there are dynos involved then people will attack the integrity of the dyno or the test conditions.

Result: shitfight.

BMWX1-35i · 09-03-2014, 06:46 AM

Very sad.. A forum is so people can ask questions, not just search through a Q&A. I guess my question is not going to get an answer with any kind of data to back it up.. All I want is data, if in both setups, fine. I'll come to my own conclusion.

I'm new here and to the BMW wold, to be honest, I feel like your attacking me for asking a simple question. Again, I'm not looking to start anything but I think you could be a little more tack full in your delivery.

jturboawd · 09-03-2014, 06:52 AM

There are many dyno comparisons and semi-scientific approaches you can see online. Look for testing done via jb4 by Terry and others, also Mr.5 did a write up.

There is only one thing that most (+90%) agree on. Sound. For me the $50 used or diy is worth the sound.

BMWX1-35i · 09-03-2014, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jturboawd

There are many dyno comparisons and semi-scientific approaches you can see online. Look for testing done via jb4 by Terry and others, also Mr.5 did a write up.

There is only one thing that most (+90%) agree on. Sound. For me the $50 used or diy is worth the sound.

Thanks, I'll try and find those..

Harlequin · 09-03-2014, 06:54 AM

No mate. I'm not attacking you. I'm trying to warn you. Nothing I said was aimed at you or disparaging you in any way.

All I'm trying to tell you is that you're going to need to "find your own truth"...

You may get some helpful responses in this thread but I'm not holding out a lot of hope...

You'll notice that I'm not volunteering any information on the subject in question. That's because I don't feel like getting attacked by the "enthusiasts" who disagree with me.

You're right about this forum and mostly that's exactly what it is. This just seems to be a sore subject with a lot of people out there...

Anyway, welcome to the forum and I hope you get the info you're looking for.

whitebimmer09 · 09-03-2014, 06:57 AM

BMWX1-35i · 09-03-2014, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitebimmer09

Grinchxvx · 09-03-2014, 08:03 AM

Google dci hot air myth

ONDEMAND · 09-03-2014, 08:55 AM

No harm in asking a question. Everyone has different opinions on intakes and yes there are a million threads but most are pointed at HP gains.

My (and only my) opinion is intakes for these cars are great! They are not "cold air" intakes and as such they should not really provide any gain in HP or TQ. I did not install the BMS N55 intake and expect any HP gains.

What an intake does do is allow the engine to breath better (even if the air is hot) so I would equate an intake to a charge pipe. Its a supporting mod, and one that in my opinion makes the engine more responsive.

Simply put, if you install an intake and a better charge pipe you will not gain any power, but you will get a better responding engine.

Maybe its only apparent because im a 6MT? Don't know

They also make the turbo more audible.

DietTab · 09-03-2014, 09:16 AM

All the cooling is done by your IC. The ambient air temp is insignificant compared to the heat put out by the turbocharger compressing the air. Flow trumps everything, including location. A 5 degree difference in ambient air being drawn in will not effect the ultimate IAT one bit.

cbl117 · 09-03-2014, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 135droptop

Very sad.. A forum is so people can ask questions, not just search through a Q&A. I guess my question is not going to get an answer with any kind of data to back it up.. All I want is data, if in both setups, fine. I'll come to my own conclusion.

I'm new here and to the BMW wold, to be honest, I feel like your attacking me for asking a simple question. Again, I'm not looking to start anything but I think you could be a little more tack full in your delivery.

Thats funny. You gave me a tackless, unconstructive comment in my thread a day or so ago. Funny how the world goes around...

Anyways, I'll give you my opinion as I'm relatively new and have read through these sometimes helpful forums.

So to caveat....IMO....BMW designed their stock airbox to perform very well. On stock tunes it seems to be sufficient. Dynos have shown slight power loss with a DCI when on stock boost, but there are a few out there that show minimal gain. DCI seems to benefit performance when the boost increases due to the increased airflow, but at the expense of increased air temps being sucked into the turbos. Now its my opinion that the increased air temps sucked into the turbos will heat up anyways so I believe the pro of increased airflow outweighs the con of increased air temp at higher boost levels. I do believe this mod will benefit from a bigger FMIC to help reduce AIT at the intake manifold.

FWIW I actually just ordered a DCI, and I'm running ~13psi boost. I will probably install the DCI when I install a FMIC (I'm going with 5" ETS or 5" Stepped VRSF, FMICs will open a whole new thread of flames lol).

I'm planning to dyno after install so you can comment on my lack of power at that time.

Good luck!

darkrom · 09-03-2014, 10:01 AM

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=588242

brusk · 09-03-2014, 10:02 AM

Unfortunately the intake question has been beat the death and very little real data. From the research I've found:
Stock - stock airbox is best
mild tune - about the same airbox maybe slightly better at low RPM's.
Higher Boost Tune - Airbox becomes too restrictive and needs modified or replaced.
Airbox vs DCI vs CAI - The Mr5 airbox mod comes out the best, CAI then DCI. But the difference in any of these is very slight.

You can check out online calculators and it will always show the cold air being slightly better the problem is the hardware being used. First the turbo's are not very efficient, meaning no matter what the temps are they will be heating them up to about the same extremely hot temps, next the intercooler size/design. Most people end up using large intercoolers that are going to bring the temps down to the same rate no matter what the temps were coming out of the turbo.

In the end pick whatever fits your budget and/or your aesthetics needs.

Freon · 09-03-2014, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 135droptop

Very sad.. A forum is so people can ask questions, not just search through a Q&A.

Wrong. Re-asking questions over and over is not productive for anyone. Not you, not others, not for the health of the forum. It's a question that has been beat to death many, many times.

Quote:

I'm new here and to the BMW wold, to be honest, I feel like your attacking me for asking a simple question. Again, I'm not looking to start anything but I think you could be a little more tack full in your delivery.

You are choosing to take the responses personally. Being told to search is not an insult.

Roland135i · 09-04-2014, 04:35 AM

I had the same question months ago. I read pro's and cons on this and other forums.

Decided to buy the f***rs and find out for myself

Downside: I still didn't have the time to install them due to moving, work, etc etc

bmw0bsession · 09-04-2014, 08:44 AM

I farted

highbrowed · 09-05-2014, 04:03 PM

System_135i · 09-10-2014, 10:37 AM

I just took a bunch of logs trying to get some better data on the open intakes debate. I didn't see a performance gain on either the stock or modified maps. IAT's don't seem to be an issue. I suspect maybe the fueling has changed, but I need a wide-band 02 to confirm. http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1033840

09-03-2014, 06:13 AM	#1
BMWX1-35i 2015 X1 35i XDrive with NAV 76 Rep 659 Posts Drives: 2015 X1 35i Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: East Coast iTrader: (2) Garage List 2015 X1 35i Xdrive [8.00]	dual open filter, why? I have seen plenty of open air filters (dual cone) so my question is this. Why? I understand the more air flow but your pulling warm air in from the engine compartment. I'm not trying to toss an opinion here, just trying to understand why this and not just install a high flow air filter in the OEM box. And just do some work on the bellows in the air path.
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09-03-2014, 06:31 AM	#2
Harlequin Brigadier General 331 Rep 4,021 Posts Drives: F32 Coupé Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Brisbane, Australia BMW Club QLD Member iTrader: (5) Garage List 2015 428i M-Sport [8.40] 2012 1M Coupé [9.25] 2011 135i M-Sport [9.14]	This topic has been done to death about a dozen times over the last 6 years... I recommend you do a search rather than giving people an opportunity for another shitfight... __________________
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09-03-2014, 06:35 AM	#3
BMWX1-35i 2015 X1 35i XDrive with NAV 76 Rep 659 Posts Drives: 2015 X1 35i Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: East Coast iTrader: (2) Garage List 2015 X1 35i Xdrive [8.00]	I'm not looking for a fight or to start one, I just want to know the reasons behind it. If there is a deference on the dyno numbers, I'm all for it. And I did a search and found nothing but a pissing contest.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

09-03-2014, 06:39 AM	#4
Harlequin Brigadier General 331 Rep 4,021 Posts Drives: F32 Coupé Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Brisbane, Australia BMW Club QLD Member iTrader: (5) Garage List 2015 428i M-Sport [8.40] 2012 1M Coupé [9.25] 2011 135i M-Sport [9.14]	That's the problem. The people who ask the question always do so innocently - with an honest desire for information. The issue is that all of the opinionated people rock up and START the pissing contest... Doesn't matter what the truth is. Some people can reproduce gains with CAIs - some can't - some see a drop in performance. Everybody already has their own opinion and refuses to be swayed by other people - if there are dynos involved then people will attack the integrity of the dyno or the test conditions. Result: shitfight. __________________
	Appreciate 0 Quote

09-03-2014, 06:46 AM	#5
BMWX1-35i 2015 X1 35i XDrive with NAV 76 Rep 659 Posts Drives: 2015 X1 35i Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: East Coast iTrader: (2) Garage List 2015 X1 35i Xdrive [8.00]	Very sad.. A forum is so people can ask questions, not just search through a Q&A. I guess my question is not going to get an answer with any kind of data to back it up.. All I want is data, if in both setups, fine. I'll come to my own conclusion. I'm new here and to the BMW wold, to be honest, I feel like your attacking me for asking a simple question. Again, I'm not looking to start anything but I think you could be a little more tack full in your delivery.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

09-03-2014, 06:52 AM	#6
jturboawd Private First Class 55 Rep 182 Posts Drives: e36, e46, 135i, m4, x4m Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: houston iTrader: (0)	There are many dyno comparisons and semi-scientific approaches you can see online. Look for testing done via jb4 by Terry and others, also Mr.5 did a write up. There is only one thing that most (+90%) agree on. Sound. For me the $50 used or diy is worth the sound.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

09-03-2014, 06:54 AM	#8
Harlequin Brigadier General 331 Rep 4,021 Posts Drives: F32 Coupé Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Brisbane, Australia BMW Club QLD Member iTrader: (5) Garage List 2015 428i M-Sport [8.40] 2012 1M Coupé [9.25] 2011 135i M-Sport [9.14]	No mate. I'm not attacking you. I'm trying to warn you. Nothing I said was aimed at you or disparaging you in any way. All I'm trying to tell you is that you're going to need to "find your own truth"... You may get some helpful responses in this thread but I'm not holding out a lot of hope... You'll notice that I'm not volunteering any information on the subject in question. That's because I don't feel like getting attacked by the "enthusiasts" who disagree with me. You're right about this forum and mostly that's exactly what it is. This just seems to be a sore subject with a lot of people out there... Anyway, welcome to the forum and I hope you get the info you're looking for. __________________
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09-03-2014, 06:57 AM	#9
whitebimmer09 Second Lieutenant 19 Rep 232 Posts Drives: 09 135i Auto Join Date: May 2014 Location: South iTrader: (1)	__________________ Aw/Beige/Walnut, Maddad Whisper, Maddad Mids, VMR 718's 18" Silver.
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09-03-2014, 08:03 AM	#11
Grinchxvx Lieutenant 29 Rep 414 Posts Drives: 2008 135i Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Salt Lake City iTrader: (0)	Google dci hot air myth __________________ 2008 Aw/Coral Red Manual 135i Coupe- JB4 G5 + BMS race flash, BMS meth kit, VRSF DP, Big tom Ic, BMS chinese tester CP, Custom Muffler Delete, BMS Oil Cooler Valve, Cowl Filters, Clutch Stop, B&M Short Shifter, Spec Stg 2+ Clutch W/ Oem dmfw, Vmr V710, KW v2, M RSFB, 1M Front and rear Bumper, Performance Side Skirts, slek trunk, Lci blacklines.]
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09-03-2014, 08:55 AM	#12
ONDEMAND oooooo 53 Rep 320 Posts Drives: with 3 pedals Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: USMFA iTrader: (0)	No harm in asking a question. Everyone has different opinions on intakes and yes there are a million threads but most are pointed at HP gains. My (and only my) opinion is intakes for these cars are great! They are not "cold air" intakes and as such they should not really provide any gain in HP or TQ. I did not install the BMS N55 intake and expect any HP gains. What an intake does do is allow the engine to breath better (even if the air is hot) so I would equate an intake to a charge pipe. Its a supporting mod, and one that in my opinion makes the engine more responsive. Simply put, if you install an intake and a better charge pipe you will not gain any power, but you will get a better responding engine. Maybe its only apparent because im a 6MT? Don't know They also make the turbo more audible. __________________ 2011 135i - Gone but not forgotten \| 2017 M2 - Powering out of a corner near you!
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09-03-2014, 09:16 AM	#13
DietTab First Lieutenant 12 Rep 324 Posts Drives: 08 135i Join Date: May 2014 Location: Manhattan, KS iTrader: (2)	All the cooling is done by your IC. The ambient air temp is insignificant compared to the heat put out by the turbocharger compressing the air. Flow trumps everything, including location. A 5 degree difference in ambient air being drawn in will not effect the ultimate IAT one bit. __________________ LSXOCET - 404rwhp @ 1600 lbs curb weight... bonkers fast
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09-03-2014, 10:01 AM	#15
darkrom Colonel 188 Rep 2,225 Posts Drives: 135i Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Rhode Island iTrader: (5)	http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=588242
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09-03-2014, 10:02 AM	#16
brusk Lieutenant 33 Rep 578 Posts Drives: 2008 135i Coupe Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Cleveland, TN iTrader: (1)	Unfortunately the intake question has been beat the death and very little real data. From the research I've found: Stock - stock airbox is best mild tune - about the same airbox maybe slightly better at low RPM's. Higher Boost Tune - Airbox becomes too restrictive and needs modified or replaced. Airbox vs DCI vs CAI - The Mr5 airbox mod comes out the best, CAI then DCI. But the difference in any of these is very slight. You can check out online calculators and it will always show the cold air being slightly better the problem is the hardware being used. First the turbo's are not very efficient, meaning no matter what the temps are they will be heating them up to about the same extremely hot temps, next the intercooler size/design. Most people end up using large intercoolers that are going to bring the temps down to the same rate no matter what the temps were coming out of the turbo. In the end pick whatever fits your budget and/or your aesthetics needs. __________________ 2008 135i - MHD/JB4, MS DP's, AMS IC, UI CAI, CDV delete, M3 control arms/Links, RE Toe Link, ECS Trailing Arm, M3 rear SF & Trans bushings, SS brake lines, Michelin PSS.
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09-04-2014, 04:35 AM	#18
Roland135i Roland135i 0 Rep 32 Posts Drives: BMW E82 135i JB4 Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: The Netherlands iTrader: (0)	I had the same question months ago. I read pro's and cons on this and other forums. Decided to buy the f***rs and find out for myself Downside: I still didn't have the time to install them due to moving, work, etc etc
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09-04-2014, 08:44 AM	#19
bmw0bsession Captain 82 Rep 847 Posts Drives: 2011 135i M Sport Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Burbank, CA iTrader: (3) Garage List 2011 BMW 135i [0.00]	I farted __________________ BMW Performance Kidney Grille, CF Lip Spoiler, CF Diffusser, Blackline LCI Tailights, Magnaflow Full Exhaust, BMS Intake, Jb4 w/ E85, Meth Injection, BMS DP, VRSF 5" Intercooler, CP-E Charge Pipe, KW CS Coilover, M3 Subframe Bushings, VMR VB3 Wheels, Stage 2 Fuel Pump, M3 Control Arms, Dinan Camber Plates, Pure Stage 2.
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09-05-2014, 04:03 PM	#20
highbrowed Boost Addict 335 Rep 1,244 Posts Drives: 135i 6MT w/ N54 Delete Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: South Florida iTrader: (4)
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09-10-2014, 10:37 AM	#21
System_135i New Member 2 Rep 8 Posts Drives: N54 135i Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Colorado iTrader: (0)	I just took a bunch of logs trying to get some better data on the open intakes debate. I didn't see a performance gain on either the stock or modified maps. IAT's don't seem to be an issue. I suspect maybe the fueling has changed, but I need a wide-band 02 to confirm. http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1033840
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