Autocar Reports: F90 M5 gets 600hp S63, xDrive, 8 Speed Auto (ZF), 5 Driving Modes

b.oom · 03-12-2017, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hamzoro

Yea but I assume the Alpina uses the M550i engine which is basically the same engine as the M5, however the parts put together greatly differ. The Alpina is basically a tuned M550i (462hp stock) whereas the M5 is 600hp stock, thanks to better and more durable engine parts.

You could say the Alpina is already at its limits with those 608hp, obviously the M5 isn't.

Please take into account that they're playing with numbers. I see 4 6 2. And this is not the 1st one marketed like that. The engine's power is advertised in such way to promote the power to the wheel. Guessing.

Krism5 · 03-12-2017, 04:51 PM

JFC!!! Relax people.... it wil have DCT!!!!!!! no a Fookin slushbox

ok ( like a whining liberals)

Alpine300zhp · 03-12-2017, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6ixSpd

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax

Okay folks.

1. This report is not confirmed.

2. I HIGHLY, HIGHLY doubt BMW would invest in a DCT gearbox for the F10 just to drop it for the F90. BMW started planning the F90 the day the F10 was released. These cars are planned for YEARS.

3. I don't think we'll ever see a slushbox in an M car.

4. Did I mention this report is all hearsay and NOT official from BMW?

Well, the X5M and X6M counteract point #3

Not really. The x5m and x6m have always been XF autos. My concern is if BMW is going ZF because of the all wheel drive. I remember it being discussed that BMW did not put the DCT in the x5m/x6m because of the all wheel drive and problems making the DCT match with the AWD system.

Alpine300zhp · 03-12-2017, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverDrive

Quote:

Originally Posted by brad850csi

I must admit I could cope with the AWD system quite happily but as someone that drives a C63 and RS6 (current gen) regularly as well as having driven a bunch of other cars with ZF8's I'm quite disappointed here, the whole point of the M5 was always that it was just a little bit naughtier and more fun than RS6's and E63's, especially true as the new E63 is AWD (unless you disable everything which most people won't do)

The Panamera Turbo Hybrid has 850nm and uses a dual clutch 8 speed which I assume is from ZF like the normal Panamera Turbo so unless Porsche have signed some weird agreement surely BMW would be able to buy a ZF DCT that supports more torque.

Porsche makes their own dual clutch tranny. It's called PDK. The 8 speed PDK in the new Panamera is the successor to the previous 7 speed PDK.

IIRC, Porsche is the only car with a DCT and AWD.

Bowser330 · 03-12-2017, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpine300zhp

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverDrive

Quote:

Originally Posted by brad850csi

I must admit I could cope with the AWD system quite happily but as someone that drives a C63 and RS6 (current gen) regularly as well as having driven a bunch of other cars with ZF8's I'm quite disappointed here, the whole point of the M5 was always that it was just a little bit naughtier and more fun than RS6's and E63's, especially true as the new E63 is AWD (unless you disable everything which most people won't do)

The Panamera Turbo Hybrid has 850nm and uses a dual clutch 8 speed which I assume is from ZF like the normal Panamera Turbo so unless Porsche have signed some weird agreement surely BMW would be able to buy a ZF DCT that supports more torque.

Porsche makes their own dual clutch tranny. It's called PDK. The 8 speed PDK in the new Panamera is the successor to the previous 7 speed PDK.

You are correct and IIRC, Porsche is the only car made with a DCT and AWD.

Nissan GTR
Audi s6
Audi s3
Audi rs3

positiveions · 03-12-2017, 05:50 PM

Monster!
I can see it: influx of people selling their M2, M3s, and M4s.

Alpine300zhp · 03-12-2017, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowser330

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpine300zhp

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverDrive

Quote:

Originally Posted by brad850csi

I must admit I could cope with the AWD system quite happily but as someone that drives a C63 and RS6 (current gen) regularly as well as having driven a bunch of other cars with ZF8's I'm quite disappointed here, the whole point of the M5 was always that it was just a little bit naughtier and more fun than RS6's and E63's, especially true as the new E63 is AWD (unless you disable everything which most people won't do)

The Panamera Turbo Hybrid has 850nm and uses a dual clutch 8 speed which I assume is from ZF like the normal Panamera Turbo so unless Porsche have signed some weird agreement surely BMW would be able to buy a ZF DCT that supports more torque.

Porsche makes their own dual clutch tranny. It's called PDK. The 8 speed PDK in the new Panamera is the successor to the previous 7 speed PDK.

You are correct and IIRC, Porsche is the only car made with a DCT and AWD.

Nissan GTR
Audi s6
Audi s3
Audi rs3

Good grief. How did I forget the Audi models and the GTR....

Brake_Late · 03-12-2017, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AWSB328iM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infamousq

600 Hp when the B5 has 608...? M better do better then that. Overall nice car. ???

I was expecting at least 650hp.

#tuneit

crono06 · 03-12-2017, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpine300zhp

Good grief. How did I forget the Audi models and the GTR....

And the S4. Evo as well

shivaswrath · 03-12-2017, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Driver37

I am excited for the new M5.

From the extremely brief convos I had over heard. The new M xDrive system will be phenomenal and the torque numbers are going to be through the roof.

Let's just sit back, wait, and enjoy the show.

-37

You mean enjoy the snow right?

jeremyr4 · 03-12-2017, 11:26 PM

I'm still shocked that I'm the only one in 9 pages that has pointed out that the fact it will have a reworked S63 means NO hybrid electric until at least 2025 (based on previous lifecycles and M products keeping the same/similar base engine), which seems like a huge mistake when Porsche is already offering this on the Panamera. Also consider that Merc will be offering the hybrid electric AMG GT sedan in 2020. This is a HUGE mistake by BMW M that will put it years behind its competition very soon, which clearly doesn't align with its claim to be focused on being a tech leader going forward!!

So much for me hoping the next M4 will be hybrid electric to eliminate the turbo lag. We'll probably have to wait until at least 2026/2027 for that in the M4 as well, which is crazy...

As much as I love DCT and hate the ZF8 that will be in the next M5, the lack of a hybrid electric engine is the biggest story and disappointment here that no one seems to realize yet...

Bowser330 · 03-12-2017, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crono06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpine300zhp

Good grief. How did I forget the Audi models and the GTR....

And the S4. Evo as well

Not the s4 any more, new s4 and s5 are autos

Lt1camaro · 03-12-2017, 11:42 PM

Guys, relax.

SCOTT26 already confirmed that it would be a DCT on one of those nurburgring spotting threads.

heres the direct link to his comment: http://g30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...&postcount=302

OverDrive · 03-13-2017, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemetier

Basically 99% of what I hinted at a year ago. Transmission "info" should be taken with a grain of salt.

3rd Gen ZF8 Modular - 8DT Center Module.

Those pics are the new 8 speed PDK.

I doubt BMW would be able to use that from ZF since they were specifically designed for Porsches. But one can hope!

OverDrive · 03-13-2017, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverDrive

Oh damn you're right!
I figured since they're naming it "Porshce" doppelkupplungsgetriebe that it would be their own design and production since I remember reading an article about the history of Porsche and developing the PDK for motorsports.

Although after some research it seems that all PDK's are co-developed between ZF and Porsche.

No worries. It's all just a bunch of marketing. BMW uses the "M-DCT" but the unit is a Getrag unit. A lot of people seem to think that manufacturers make their own unit (some do) but I find it strange when I'm reading this thread and I see "BMW should improve their transmissions to handle the torque". Improve what? BMW doesn't make the DCT in their M cars. They might calibrate the software but they have nothing to do with the actual hardware.

Yes I know that most don't make their own transmissions. I thought Porsche developed the PDK themselves since I had read an article about them developing it first in the 70s for their motorsport. But I guess they co-developed it with ZF.

OverDrive · 03-13-2017, 02:02 AM

The reason why the X5/6M use the ZF8 is mainly because SUVs are expected to be able to tow things and a torque converter transmission is more suited for towing because slipping the clutch on a DCT while trying to tow a boat could become expensive real quick!

Getrag has the capability to make higher rated DCTs for the new M5 since they already do for Ferrari but the Ferrari ones are transversely mounted so they won't be applicable to front engined BMW Ms. The other issue is that the getrag ones aren't designed for AWD as they don't have an AWD output shaft. That would be a costly R&D but you'd think BMW would sell enough M5's to justify it.

I'm still going to remain hopeful because the DCT was the main thing that kept the M5 more favourable to me compared to the Audi and Mercedes.

Phatcat · 03-13-2017, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lt1camaro

Guys, relax.

SCOTT26 already confirmed that it would be a DCT on one of those nurburgring spotting threads.

heres the direct link to his comment: http://g30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...&postcount=302

I think Scott is backtracking from that now.

TailgatingBMW · 03-13-2017, 06:13 AM

Shit. ZF 8-speed is gonna be a downgrade from the dual-clutch. Very bad idea in my opinion.

infamousq · 03-13-2017, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AWSB328iM

I was expecting at least 650hp.

Same here!!!

yousefnjr · 03-13-2017, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcades

I'm still enjoying the whining.

All of them are speaking based from an "unofficial" report. lol. Jumping to conclusions is what the internet is best at doing.

I hope you enjoy humble pie

yousefnjr · 03-13-2017, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hekki

Most buyers of these super fast sedans/Wagons only drives in public roads as daily driver. That's why AWD is better option and most buyers want. Yes, on track RWD is much better but there are a few buyers who uses these car on track. I think that's why BMW offers AWD instead of RWD.

I'd be willing to bet that the AWD will make the car faster on the track too. I do think losing the rear-end-squirm-under-power BMWness is a loss to the experience though. Some people prefer to have a car challenge them and not simply "foot down, click paddle." Minority opinion, I know...

technik330 · 03-13-2017, 10:56 AM

... I like the mentality of the people using the word "only" when referencing 600hp.

Bruh, like, I need more powah!

03-12-2017, 04:51 PM	#178
Krism5 New Member 7 Rep 29 Posts Drives: '93M5 '00 323iT Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Chicago iTrader: (0)	JFC!!! Relax people.... it wil have DCT!!!!!!! no a Fookin slushbox ok ( like a whining liberals) __________________ '93 DV M5
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03-12-2017, 05:50 PM	#182
positiveions Lieutenant General 962 Rep 11,723 Posts Drives: 19 Tacoma, 16 Golf wagon Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Upland, CA iTrader: (2) Garage List 2019 Toyota Tacoma [0.00] 2016 VW Golf Sports ... [0.00] 1998 BMW M3 [0.00] 1990 BMW 325is [0.00]	Monster! I can see it: influx of people selling their M2, M3s, and M4s.
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03-12-2017, 11:26 PM	#187
jeremyr4 Second Lieutenant 68 Rep 244 Posts Drives: '13 E93 M3 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: West Los Angeles iTrader: (0)	No Hybrid-Electric Until At Least 2025??? I'm still shocked that I'm the only one in 9 pages that has pointed out that the fact it will have a reworked S63 means NO hybrid electric until at least 2025 (based on previous lifecycles and M products keeping the same/similar base engine), which seems like a huge mistake when Porsche is already offering this on the Panamera. Also consider that Merc will be offering the hybrid electric AMG GT sedan in 2020. This is a HUGE mistake by BMW M that will put it years behind its competition very soon, which clearly doesn't align with its claim to be focused on being a tech leader going forward!! So much for me hoping the next M4 will be hybrid electric to eliminate the turbo lag. We'll probably have to wait until at least 2026/2027 for that in the M4 as well, which is crazy... As much as I love DCT and hate the ZF8 that will be in the next M5, the lack of a hybrid electric engine is the biggest story and disappointment here that no one seems to realize yet...
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03-12-2017, 11:42 PM	#189
Lt1camaro Lieutenant 185 Rep 480 Posts Drives: 2016 535i, 2015 435i, 2013 M3 Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Ontario, Canada iTrader: (1)	Guys, relax. SCOTT26 already confirmed that it would be a DCT on one of those nurburgring spotting threads. heres the direct link to his comment: http://g30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...&postcount=302 __________________ Current Car List 2020 F87 M2 CS - Hockenheim Silver 2020 F97 X3M- Phytonic Blue
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03-13-2017, 02:02 AM	#192
OverDrive CHEAT TO WIN!! 101 Rep 1,347 Posts Drives: E92 M3, 718 GT4 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Toronto iTrader: (0)	The reason why the X5/6M use the ZF8 is mainly because SUVs are expected to be able to tow things and a torque converter transmission is more suited for towing because slipping the clutch on a DCT while trying to tow a boat could become expensive real quick! Getrag has the capability to make higher rated DCTs for the new M5 since they already do for Ferrari but the Ferrari ones are transversely mounted so they won't be applicable to front engined BMW Ms. The other issue is that the getrag ones aren't designed for AWD as they don't have an AWD output shaft. That would be a costly R&D but you'd think BMW would sell enough M5's to justify it. I'm still going to remain hopeful because the DCT was the main thing that kept the M5 more favourable to me compared to the Audi and Mercedes. __________________ Current: 2013 E92 M3, 6MT, SSII on Fox Red Extended Previous: 2008 E92 335xi, 6MT, AW on Saddle Brown
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03-13-2017, 06:13 AM	#194
TailgatingBMW Enlisted Member 12 Rep 47 Posts Drives: BMW E91 LCI 320d Touring 2012 Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Paris iTrader: (0)	Shit. ZF 8-speed is gonna be a downgrade from the dual-clutch. Very bad idea in my opinion.
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03-13-2017, 10:56 AM	#198
technik330 Captain 289 Rep 666 Posts Drives: STi Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Orange County iTrader: (0)	... I like the mentality of the people using the word "only" when referencing 600hp. Bruh, like, I need more powah! __________________ Technik 330 Past Projects: '05 BMW 330Ci ZHP - Technik's ZHP Sold '07 Subaru STI - Sold '18 Subaru STi Type RA #350 '19 Honda Civic Type R #31191
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