[brad850csi]

There aren't many circuit videos of Teslas out there and none of the p100d but of the two that are out there, they both lose quite a bit of power that they can deliver quite quickly. Look at the orange bar that shows you how much power is being used or regenerated.

https://youtu.be/Dphw4km60m4

https://youtu.be/BfZLGIs0H14

In particular also note the speed across the start/finish line at VIR for the opening lap and the finish. That speed is the difference between an M5 and a 540i

[evanevery]

Maybe this will help?

https://insideevs.com/formula-e-driv...model-s-p100d/

[Madvillain]

Originally Posted by mainly

disagree with literally every point. except the fuel usage.

(horribly slow transmission? id love to see anyone out shift an smg in s6)

how can u disagree? as a daily is considerably worse. its a fun car still no doubt but too many flaws. the styling is objective though someone might like that its a completely diff look to every other 5 series. there is no doubt that the f10 is overall built better,is a better daily is alot more reliable uses less fuel and is ALOT faster. e60 will always be a legend a special m5 but as a car the f10 is just way better. youre def right about s6 at full throttle its quick to shift (personally i like the hard shifts gives it emotion and character).

[harperium]

Originally Posted by evanevery

Why do we feel it necessary to bash one vehicle just because its not OUR vehicle. Do we feel threatened by its success? Are we envious of its appeal?

My top 3:

1. Battery tech today is not good. Battery-driven cars are inconvenient and impractical. The ability to drive 500 miles on a tank and refill in 2 minutes - anywhere - is FREEDOM. I drive my car all over the place, for fun and adventure! and if I was limited to EV charging stations, my life will get a lot less interesting. EVs basically represent the opposite of everything I love about cars!

2. Tesla, and Musk, are hype machines. For the money, the build quality isn't as nice. A new BMW or Merc has more technology than a Tesla, and better build quality, and is more luxurious. But Tesla dazzles people who think the giant screen is an improvement - personally the giant touchscreen is a big step backwards for usability while driving. But some people want to drive a giant iPhone...

3. The smugness of EV drivers. Teslas are not "zero emissions" unless you are charging your car with electrons from the sun or wind. The batteries are filled with rare-earth elements - that are basically from strip mines in remote parts of the world. And why are we giving people tax credits who can afford $80K cars??

A distant 4th: EVs are quiet. Which means you really miss out on the physical connection to the car. The sound and vibration and feel. Gone.

On a positive note, I do love the instant and smooth torque of EVs.

I do not think we will have breakthroughs in battery tech any time soon. Which means that the future is not today's EV. Hybrids are a better fit. And we continue to make advancements in ICE emissions, which means that soon, our biggest problem won't be emissions from ICE's but from other sources - like, all those airplanes in the sky and big diesel trains... and methane from cows...

[gscone]

Would love to hear the exhaust note compared to the E63S which sounds absolutely amazing.

GSC

[esquire]

Originally Posted by harperium

My top 3:

1. Battery tech today is not good. Battery-driven cars are inconvenient and impractical. The ability to drive 500 miles on a tank and refill in 2 minutes - anywhere - is FREEDOM. I drive my car all over the place, for fun and adventure! and if I was limited to EV charging stations, my life will get a lot less interesting. EVs basically represent the opposite of everything I love about cars!

2. Tesla, and Musk, are hype machines. For the money, the build quality isn't as nice. A new BMW or Merc has more technology than a Tesla, and better build quality, and is more luxurious. But Tesla dazzles people who think the giant screen is an improvement - personally the giant touchscreen is a big step backwards for usability while driving. But some people want to drive a giant iPhone...

3. The smugness of EV drivers. Teslas are not "zero emissions" unless you are charging your car with electrons from the sun or wind. The batteries are filled with rare-earth elements - that are basically from strip mines in remote parts of the world. And why are we giving people tax credits who can afford $80K cars??

A distant 4th: EVs are quiet. Which means you really miss out on the physical connection to the car. The sound and vibration and feel. Gone.

On a positive note, I do love the instant and smooth torque of EVs.

I do not think we will have breakthroughs in battery tech any time soon. Which means that the future is not today's EV. Hybrids are a better fit. And we continue to make advancements in ICE emissions, which means that soon, our biggest problem won't be emissions from ICE's but from other sources - like, all those airplanes in the sky and big diesel trains... and methane from cows...

As a lover of both Teslas, and the M5, I'll chime in here:

I have to disagree with you, respectfully. For the money Tesla's build quality is spectacular, in view of the fact that Tesla sells direct to consumer and avoids the markups of dealership middlemen. Flush door handles that sense your presence, adjustable ride height, glass pano roofs, ungodly amounts of space, and spectacular performance(not to mention crash safety). These are all build quality that we don't see in cars of similar cost. Take into account that you don't have to pay for gas (which costs another 300-600 dollars a month), and you're getting an amazing car at the price. And then take into consideration the significant tax rebates that you take issue with (and sometimes carpool access), and the tesla makes a convincing case for an outright bargain.

Now you might question why Tesla owners get tax rebates, but these are policy questions vested in legislators who know far more about the balance of things than you and I. On balance of those competing interests, they've made a policy decision to incent the proliferation of EV cars in order to lower emissions and pollution. Right now that is a more pressing concern than the mining of earth metals are, in view of smog, the ozone layer, and global warning. So the tax rebate makes sense, though you might not like it. There is no greater stimulus than making something more affordable. And the government has every reason right now to stimulate the sale of EV cars.

While you're right that charging a tesla right now presents some inconvenience if you're out in podunk nowheresville, its worth mentioning that only with an EV car can you "fuel" your car up while you're parked at a mall, or at work. As EV cars profilerate, as they certainly will and are doing, your gas station problem will go away, and you'll find more charging stations in nowheresville. But I agree with you that RIGHT NOW, EV cars have some more limitations on long distance travel than gas cars. But for the day to day driver, going to work and traveling in or around town, the EV car is as good if not better than traditional gas technology.

There can be little arguing with the performance numbers they're putting down. The new Tesla Roadster is promising insane numbers at a relatively reasonable price. 0-60mph in 1.9? 0-100 mph in 4.2? Quarter mile in 8.8 seconds? Its hard to argue with the numbers.

We don't have to discredit other great cars, to make the case that the M5 is awesome in its own right. (Not that i'm saying that's what your post was doing, but i'm addressing this thread more generally now). This M5 is nuts. Offers a lot of things that the Model S doesnt. And comes in cheaper than the P100D.

To each their own.

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by harperium

My top 3:

1. Battery tech today is not good. Battery-driven cars are inconvenient and impractical. The ability to drive 500 miles on a tank and refill in 2 minutes - anywhere - is FREEDOM. I drive my car all over the place, for fun and adventure! and if I was limited to EV charging stations, my life will get a lot less interesting. EVs basically represent the opposite of everything I love about cars!

2. Tesla, and Musk, are hype machines. For the money, the build quality isn't as nice. A new BMW or Merc has more technology than a Tesla, and better build quality, and is more luxurious. But Tesla dazzles people who think the giant screen is an improvement - personally the giant touchscreen is a big step backwards for usability while driving. But some people want to drive a giant iPhone...

3. The smugness of EV drivers. Teslas are not "zero emissions" unless you are charging your car with electrons from the sun or wind. The batteries are filled with rare-earth elements - that are basically from strip mines in remote parts of the world. And why are we giving people tax credits who can afford $80K cars??

A distant 4th: EVs are quiet. Which means you really miss out on the physical connection to the car. The sound and vibration and feel. Gone.

On a positive note, I do love the instant and smooth torque of EVs.

I do not think we will have breakthroughs in battery tech any time soon. Which means that the future is not today's EV. Hybrids are a better fit. And we continue to make advancements in ICE emissions, which means that soon, our biggest problem won't be emissions from ICE's but from other sources - like, all those airplanes in the sky and big diesel trains... and methane from cows...

1. I don't see any problem with my battery tech. I get 240-250 miles on my ModelX. That works fine for me and my daily driver. I can drive from Milwaukee to Chicago and back in my ModelX. I've NEVER used any charger other than the one on the wall in my garage. In fact, last I looked, statistics said over 70% of EV users don't use PUBLIC chargers at all. I come home and I plug in my car (just like my cell phone) - that simple. I never have to pull over for gas. The whole "not enough charging infrastructure" is complete crap - most EV owners don't use it frequently anyway...

I don't see any need for better battery tech. The Model X meets and exceeds my daily requirements quite easily. In fact, the solution YOU seem to think we require may not have anything to do with battery TECH at all. There is/was a fleet of EV taxi cabs in Tokyo (I believe) that had removable battery trays on the underside of their cars. When the charge got low, they rolled through an automated garage where there was a robot in a "grease pit". The robot removed the battery pack and replaced it with a freshly charged one and they were on their way. It was an entirely automated process, much faster, in fact, than the time it would take to fill a gas tank, and the driver never had to get out of the car.

The ModelX is my daily driver. If I want to take a 500 mile road trip I'm going to take my M6 (or something else). Similarly, I don't pull trailers with my M6, I use my Sierra for that. Point is, most families have more than one car. (Most, in fact, have more than 2) Take a gas guzzler if you want to run a long trip. No reason NOT to own an EV and use it daily. A couple can have both types of cars as daily drivers and then just take the one with an ICE for longer trips.

BMWs basically represent the opposite of everything I love about horses! ;-)

2. Well, as a Tesla owner, I can assure you Tesla/Musk are NOT hype. They are the real deal. The build quality is arguably not as good as a BMW (certainly close) but the car is so much smarter. Musk has done some really great stuff that there is NO REASON why other car mfrs couldn't do. Stuff that has nothing to do with the car being an EV. Your BMW GPS knows where your BMW is, but does it talk to your BMW garage opener to open the garage door when you roll into your driveway? No... Does it remember where the suspension had to be adjusted to clear an obstacle and then do it automatically next time? No... Your BMW GPS is a completely isolated device as is your BMW Garage Door Opener. The only thing they have in common is the 12V power and ground. Everything in the Tesla is capable of talking to everything else. Do our BMW's get software updates over the air at night? No, you have to take them to a dealer. Some much stuff like this in the Tesla. Its easy to say its hype if you've never owned one. Musk makes cool stuff. He's landing rocket boosters tail first on floating/moving barges. Get over it!

3. Fact is, you have a lot more choices of how you can power an EV than a gas car. If you are unhappy about your neighborhood being powered by a coal plant then you have other, cleaner, options. Your EV gets its power from the same source as your house. If you are not happy with that then work to change it. I don't see you complaining about how your house is using dirty power. Step up and make a difference if its that important to you. Fact is, you can't run your ICE on Geothermal, water power, nuclear, solar, wind, etc. But I CAN do that with my Tesla.

4. EV's are quiet. I enjoy listening to my M6, but I also enjoy listening to my music. Put some playing cards in your spokes if you want the noise. I suppose some folks miss the sound of hoof beats as well. Time moves on...

You can say EV owners are smug and I'll come right back with BMW owners a$$holes. (I own multiple BMW's - inc an i8 on order - if that's not already clear). The Tesla vehicles are truly great cars and setting some very high standards. They are selling crazy numbers of these (inc 400,000 paid reservations on the Model3 even before it was ever released). A lot of folks are agreeing with their wallet. IMHO - BMW has not even come close to making an EV in the same league.

Many people who don't own BMW's feel exactly the same way about BMW Drivers as BMW drivers feel about Tesla drivers. Kind of ironic, huh?

But why so sour? Why can't you enjoy the vehicles for what they are? So many people feel threatened by change. Particularly when it stands to replace something they are familiar with. Perhaps you feel like you are being left behind by a technology you don't understand?

I can be condescending all day long, but that really doesn't help, does it?

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by esquire

As a lover of both Teslas, and the M5, I'll chime in here:

I have to disagree with you, respectfully. For the money Tesla's build quality is spectacular...

Believe it or not, I'm NOT looking to argue with EVERYONE in this thread, but I do have to give props to the BMW for a noticeably better build quality.

My ModelX is very good but its not up to the excellent BMW standards in my X6M, M6, or M4. In particular, the fit/finish/alignment of the doors is the most noticeable for me. ...and its not the Falcon Wing doors, its the driver/pass doors that could align better with the B-Pillars.

Again, not trying to argue with everyone, Just tryin' to keep it honest and give credit where credit is due...

[esquire]

Originally Posted by evanevery

4. EV's are quiet. I enjoy listening to my M6, but I also enjoy listening to my music. Put some playing cards in your spokes if you want the noise. I suppose some folks miss the sound of hoof beats as well. Time moves on...

LMFAO.

[Needbmwpartzz]

This looks like a winner....Go M5.
And for people comparing to the Tesla P-WHATEVER........electric cars are appliances-true cars have ICE IMO and will never be cars till they can be filled with juice as conveniently as cars and....when you can still mash pedal with heat blowing full tilt at 60 and not worry about mileage getting slashed in half.
But hey if you never leave the city....keep your appliance and I'll drive M5

[MilehighM3]

Originally Posted by mainly

i get out lots in my e60 m5. in s6 under WOT it shifts faster than a manual, as another person here just agreed.

its also the most fun transmission iv'e ever driven. there is no clunking whatsoever. the shifts are perfectly smooth when cruising, and absolute savagery when in s6.

maybe your m5 was broken, or you don't know how to drive.

I know how to drive just fine thank you. The most fun transmission I've driven is a manual, not an automated gearbox of any variant. DCT of any kind is superior in every function to SMG, but I always prefer a manual given the option.

[Spara]

Electric cars are the future- but let’s not pretend that Tesla is the future of electric cars. The build quality on the model X is absurd for the M5 equivalent pricing. Just go test drive one and look at the 1999 GM level gaps between panels and interior parts.

[harperium]

Originally Posted by evanevery

I can be condescending all day long, but that really doesn't help, does it?

Your posts aren't condescending at all... I have several people in my extended social circle that exude EV smugness, not you, so those people were really the target of my comment... and it's just too easy to generalize when writing posts, isn't it?

[Ex_Stig]

Is it possible to unsubscribe from this post? It has gotten so off topic that it just isn't worth following anymore.

[TheRealOrosie]

I hate it when good threads get ruined with negative people arguing incessantly. Time to ignore this thread.

[gmfive]

Woah that is epic performance from the F90. The CP should be even faster. At this point, I'd just want to start by changing out those wheels.. not exactly my taste. Good job //M

[mjr24]

The one thing people are forgetting is the Model X is absolutely hideous. It looks like a part minivan/van/wagon.

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by mjr24

The one thing people are forgetting is the Model X is absolutely hideous. It looks like a part minivan/van/wagon.

That's because it IS part minivan/van/wagon! There is always the Model S if you don't want an SUV. Its performance (and likely build quality) is even better...

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by Needbmwpartzz

This looks like a winner....Go M5.
And for people comparing to the Tesla P-WHATEVER........electric cars are appliances-true cars have ICE IMO and will never be cars till they can be filled with juice as conveniently as cars and....when you can still mash pedal with heat blowing full tilt at 60 and not worry about mileage getting slashed in half.
But hey if you never leave the city....keep your appliance and I'll drive M5

We've heard it all before: "Oh, you young whippersnappers in your dad-burned horseless carriages. Those noisy smoke belching abominations will never be the future of transportation! When I want to go somewhere I'll take my tried and true horse like God intended!" Uh, huh...

Back in the late 70's, my girlfriend also told me that if gas went over $1.00 a gallon she would simply refuse to drive any more. Guess she's been walking for a while now...

(BTW: My EV "can be filled with juice MORE conveniently than cars". I never have to stop to fuel/charge up. I just plug it in when I get home and its all charged up and ready to go the next morning. MORE convenient!)

[onfireX5]

Originally Posted by evanevery

We've heard it all before: "Oh, you young whippersnappers in your dad-burned horseless carriages. Those noisy smoke belching abominations will never be the future of transportation! When I want to go somewhere I'll take my tried and true horse like God intended!" Uh, huh...

Back in the late 70's, my girlfriend also told me that if gas went over $1.00 a gallon she would simply refuse to drive any more. Guess she's been walking for a while now...

(BTW: My EV "can be filled with juice MORE conveniently than cars". I never have to stop to fuel/charge up. I just plug it in when I get home and its all charged up and ready to go the next morning. MORE convenient!)

I have nothing against EV all all except the battery tech. I make 300-320 mile trips a lot. Generally takes 5 hours. Eventually, EV will be able to do that........

[allmotor_2000]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

That's not true. G-Power supposedly is already now selling a Piggyback for the S64tu4. They're claiming 700PS. Looks stupid expensive, although in their defense G-Power has never been cheap. But yeah, here we go with companies like Performing Imports selling Press Tunes for $4,000 dollars again. Lol!

https://www.g-power.com/benoetigt-de...00-ps_3946.php

OMG what a rip-off... this is like 15x the cost of a JB4 S1 and does the same damn thing.

Look at the connectors.. it connects to the TMAP sensors (so that the DME doesn't really know what boost its running), probably RPM and appears to snoop on the CANBUS as well (maybe in lieu of RPM) as it can get it from there.

[evanevery]

Originally Posted by onfireX5

I have nothing against EV all all except the battery tech. I make 300-320 mile trips a lot. Generally takes 5 hours. Eventually, EV will be able to do that........

The upcoming 2020 Tesla Roadster is slated to have a range of 620 miles... You can reserve one now if you have the $$$$.

(..and 0-60 in 1.9 with a top speed over 250 MPH...)