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      05-14-2014, 06:29 AM   #1
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Outgoing W204 C63 preferred to M4 in this review

Interesting review. Seems the future of performance cars may not be quite as exciting in terms of throttle response and sound if the M4 is the new benchmark in the post V8 world

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/p...s-benz-c63-amg
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      05-14-2014, 06:45 AM   #2
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Sutcliffe seems to prefer the pre-E92 M3s.

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      05-14-2014, 06:58 AM   #3
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This doesn't surprise me. Sutcliffe hasn't exactly praised the E92 over the years either, as opposed to a lot of the other reviewers, especially from the UK.

The above video is a good example.
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      05-14-2014, 07:07 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cc3 View Post
Interesting review. Seems the future of performance cars may not be quite as exciting in terms of throttle response and sound if the M4 is the new benchmark in the post V8 world

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/p...s-benz-c63-amg
Agreed. It'll be interesting to see how reviewers will respond to new turbocharged yet smaller engines of the future. Change is hard, especially for "seasoned" drivers. Will be met with tons of nostalgia for prior NA V8s.
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      05-14-2014, 07:32 AM   #5
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Sutcliffe who? Who cares what he thinks how he can pick the Merc over the M I will never know. Was a crap review imo.
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      05-14-2014, 07:47 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cc3 View Post
Interesting review. Seems the future of performance cars may not be quite as exciting in terms of throttle response and sound if the M4 is the new benchmark in the post V8 world

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/p...s-benz-c63-amg
....and there are Porsche owners who decry the loss of an air cooled engine....

....and pilots who miss the end of the bi-plane era...

....and folks who say that rock 'n roll was never better than [insert a decade/time when they were young and cool]...

....and folks who have been married 30 years who still remember their first sexual experience with Stacy Collins from the neighbouring high school with extra fondness and who wonder what is she doing these days....

....and of course any junkie will tell you that first taste of the hezza was the greatest rush ever...

When new models come out there is always lots of nostalgia like this. People like what they have (that is why they have it) and when they step into something 'higher end' their first experience is the formative/baseline for all others.

That is why those who first got an E46 M think it can't be beat and those who first got an E90 M don't see why we don't just stop there and say it is perfect. ...or why those who are 'Benz' folks are always gonna default back 'home'. Spend time in a forum like benzworld or mbworld and meet a world of folks (the 'Benz' and 'mb' worlds respectively...) who ALL prefer the C63 over the M3.

I would never take a first drive compare from any owner or reviewer vs a 7 year old model and say 'this settles it'

Let's let a bunch of newbies pop their cherries with the F80 and let some long term tests, side by side compares, etc, happen before we decide if this is the finger to put a ring on, eh?

Last edited by myzmak; 05-14-2014 at 07:49 AM.. Reason: Typo
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      05-14-2014, 07:53 AM   #7
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Not terribly surprising and doesn't necessarily sway my view. Against the 507, the M3 I'm sure seems more sensible/less raw in a lot of ways and that bothers him. I'd like to drive a 507 edition to see for myself.
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      05-14-2014, 07:55 AM   #8
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OBVIOUSLY, the C63 sounds incredible and is an overall more masculine and mighty car. However, I would never buy such an expensive car with that lousy gearbox. At least you can enhance the M4 experience with an exhaust. That C63 DCT is pretty lame. Even the ZF8 auto in the series BMW does a better job than that drugged C63 DCT.
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      05-14-2014, 08:25 AM   #9
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that was a pretty lame review - and I like both cars. who could've guessed - better sounds and throttle response from a huge NA V8, imagine that....
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      05-14-2014, 08:33 AM   #10
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I've been driving a ~4000 pound fire-breathing v8 for the past few years (e39 m5). I'm excited for the F80 specifically because I believe it's going to be close to 3500 pounds (in my specification) - or about 450 pounds lighter than my e39 m5.

I get the C63 is a great vehicle. But c'mon, that body style is bland. It's interior is bland. It's transmission stinks. And it's heavy and high on consumption. I just don't "feel" it at all.
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      05-14-2014, 08:40 AM   #11
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It's a good bet that he'll prefer the W204 C63 over the new W205 model too in my opinion. And so will plenty of others. And I'm sure the E9x M3 will also be preferred by some over the F8x. Same for the B8 RS5 vs. the upcoming B9.

And for that matter, while Sutclife may not be one of them, we can assume that some will prefer the E9x M3 over the new W205 C63 too.

I'm waiting to see the objective results of F8x vs. W205 C63 (and, later, ATS-V, RC/IS-F, "Eau Rouge", B9 RS4/5, etc.). I think the F8x will do well, though I don't think it'll be the undisputed king as in generations past.
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      05-14-2014, 10:23 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myzmak View Post
....and there are Porsche owners who decry the loss of an air cooled engine....

....and pilots who miss the end of the bi-plane era...

....and folks who say that rock 'n roll was never better than [insert a decade/time when they were young and cool]...

....and folks who have been married 30 years who still remember their first sexual experience with Stacy Collins from the neighbouring high school with extra fondness and who wonder what is she doing these days....

....and of course any junkie will tell you that first taste of the hezza was the greatest rush ever...

When new models come out there is always lots of nostalgia like this. People like what they have (that is why they have it) and when they step into something 'higher end' their first experience is the formative/baseline for all others.

That is why those who first got an E46 M think it can't be beat and those who first got an E90 M don't see why we don't just stop there and say it is perfect. ...or why those who are 'Benz' folks are always gonna default back 'home'. Spend time in a forum like benzworld or mbworld and meet a world of folks (the 'Benz' and 'mb' worlds respectively...) who ALL prefer the C63 over the M3.

I would never take a first drive compare from any owner or reviewer vs a 7 year old model and say 'this settles it'

Let's let a bunch of newbies pop their cherries with the F80 and let some long term tests, side by side compares, etc, happen before we decide if this is the finger to put a ring on, eh?

Maybe that is why the second hand price of Air cooled Porsche and indeed nearly all classic sports cars is going through the roof and the price of a new M4 will go south pretty quickly especially once BMW starts the discounts.

Read today Jaguar to make 5 more lightweight E Types to the original specification of the 60's

The penny is starting to drop that classic sports cars is where a large number of enthusiasts are putting their money. Why pay lots of tax on a new M4 and suffer big depreciation when you can have lots of fun in the classic market?
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      05-14-2014, 10:52 AM   #13
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Lets not skip the part where he prefers the C63 steering. Oh and he really likes the C63 chassis.

Wasn't just that he doesn't like the S55.
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      05-14-2014, 11:47 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myzmak View Post
....and there are Porsche owners who decry the loss of an air cooled engine....

....and pilots who miss the end of the bi-plane era...

....and folks who say that rock 'n roll was never better than [insert a decade/time when they were young and cool]...

....and folks who have been married 30 years who still remember their first sexual experience with Stacy Collins from the neighbouring high school with extra fondness and who wonder what is she doing these days....

....and of course any junkie will tell you that first taste of the hezza was the greatest rush ever...

When new models come out there is always lots of nostalgia like this. People like what they have (that is why they have it) and when they step into something 'higher end' their first experience is the formative/baseline for all others.

That is why those who first got an E46 M think it can't be beat and those who first got an E90 M don't see why we don't just stop there and say it is perfect. ...or why those who are 'Benz' folks are always gonna default back 'home'. Spend time in a forum like benzworld or mbworld and meet a world of folks (the 'Benz' and 'mb' worlds respectively...) who ALL prefer the C63 over the M3.

I would never take a first drive compare from any owner or reviewer vs a 7 year old model and say 'this settles it'

Let's let a bunch of newbies pop their cherries with the F80 and let some long term tests, side by side compares, etc, happen before we decide if this is the finger to put a ring on, eh?

But Stacy Collins was a slut. Sorry.
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      05-14-2014, 12:15 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cc3 View Post
Maybe that is why the second hand price of Air cooled Porsche and indeed nearly all classic sports cars is going through the roof and the price of a new M4 will go south pretty quickly especially once BMW starts the discounts.

Read today Jaguar to make 5 more lightweight E Types to the original specification of the 60's

The penny is starting to drop that classic sports cars is where a large number of enthusiasts are putting their money. Why pay lots of tax on a new M4 and suffer big depreciation when you can have lots of fun in the classic market?
I'm not sure the ridiculous prices fetched by air-cooled porsches are necessarily a good thing.....

As I said this morning: nostalgia is a powerful force. As the boomers age (and recover from recession and have some disposable income) there is no doubt that they will spend money to reclaim their pasts (witness the entire "revamped Dodge Charger, etc" phenomenon....)

(and before some idiot flames me, I'm not saying air cooled porsches or classic cars are bad - I'm just saying "this was the car that made me love driving" is not the same as "this is the best car of its kind/in history". Those are different things).
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      05-14-2014, 12:16 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jc05e46m3 View Post

But Stacy Collins was a slut. Sorry.
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooo......

a dream. shattered.....

sigh.

is it too early for a drink?

good thing I didnt use her real name, eh?
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      05-14-2014, 12:27 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myzmak View Post
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooo......

a dream. shattered.....

sigh.

is it too early for a drink?

good thing I didnt use her real name, eh?

But I totally got your point. Well delivered.
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      05-14-2014, 12:36 PM   #18
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many thanks.
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      05-14-2014, 12:38 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
It's a good bet that he'll prefer the W204 C63 over the new W205 model too in my opinion. And so will plenty of others. And I'm sure the E9x M3 will also be preferred by some over the F8x. Same for the B8 RS5 vs. the upcoming B9.

And for that matter, while Sutclife may not be one of them, we can assume that some will prefer the E9x M3 over the new W205 C63 too.
What?

You mean we all won't agree on which car is the best?

But what if I call the folks who like other cars names - will that help make my case?



Anyway, yes, exactly. Some people like brown shoes, some like black. There are some objective measurements, but it will all come down to what each person really likes/what turns them on.
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      05-14-2014, 12:57 PM   #20
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Here's a direct link:

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      05-14-2014, 12:59 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W17NNY View Post
I have never rated Sutcliffe
He was one of the first to review the F80 M3 and he absolutely loved it.

Chris Harris also preferred the W204 C63 to the E92 M3.
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      05-14-2014, 01:07 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinweiss 335i View Post
OBVIOUSLY, the C63 sounds incredible and is an overall more masculine and mighty car. However, I would never buy such an expensive car with that lousy gearbox. At least you can enhance the M4 experience with an exhaust. That C63 DCT is pretty lame. Even the ZF8 auto in the series BMW does a better job than that drugged C63 DCT.
I will be the first to admit that overall, as a performance-oriented gearbox, the DCT is better than the MCT. It just is. I agree that the ZF 8-speed auto that BMW uses is brilliant as well.

That said, the MCT is not crap. I certainly wouldn't call it lousy. It's the car's weak point but I think that its automatic modes are far less jerky/clumsy than the DCT's.

In M Mode, the DCT is flat-out more responsive. There is no lag on upshifts whatsoever. There can be some hesitation on upshits with the MCT but the downshifts are stellar.

MB's problem is that it builds all of its transmissions in house. It doesn't like to outsource like BMW does for the DCT (Getrag, I believe?) and 8-speed auto (ZF).

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
Lets not skip the part where he prefers the C63 steering. Oh and he really likes the C63 chassis.

Wasn't just that he doesn't like the S55.
Those aspects always get overlooked in comparisons involving the W204, particularly the LCI model. It's like AMG can't shake its reputation from 10 years ago.
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