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      05-10-2014, 02:27 PM   #1
freeman727
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Why not supercharge?

Why doesn't bmw use superchargers? It would be nice to have a factory supercharged s65 as a starting point.
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      05-10-2014, 02:33 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freeman727
Why doesn't bmw use superchargers? It would be nice to have a factory supercharged s65 as a starting point.
Doesn't meet power / efficiency goals. Who uses a supercharger? Really only Audi, and that engine is on the way out. Several others use a super AND a turbo, but that should tell you something.
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      05-10-2014, 02:33 PM   #3
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That's because they got these stupid european laws that dictates pretentious stupid mpg fleet wide numbers. My god how lucky we are in america we have a lot of everything. Go to europe, even the food is tiny, their entree is like our appetizer

I'm joking obviously about the food, I work out a lot so for me it doesn't matter:P

Anyways supercharger is all about gas mileage. Turbos are a lot more efficient and cheaper to produce.

If BMW were a US based company, they'd probably make the BEST cars in the world.
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      05-10-2014, 02:34 PM   #4
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lol, a factory supercharged S65 is way above the power level of an M3...

A SC also doesn't provide the advantage of tq down low, fuel effiency nor power at this displacement level that a turbo could.
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      05-10-2014, 02:36 PM   #5
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You can pull electronic, fueling, and exhaust tricks with a turbocharger. Can't really do that as much with a supercharger.
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      05-10-2014, 02:49 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnmd View Post
If BMW were a US based company, they'd probably make the BEST cars in the world.


Thing is... they do (just look at the sales figures for the prices they charge)
Together with some others of course... but "the best" clearly is a personal thing.

And btw. I sure do not agree on the food part... I've had bigger portions in Germany than here (just need to know where to find these).
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      05-10-2014, 03:14 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnmd View Post
That's because they got these stupid european laws that dictates pretentious stupid mpg fleet wide numbers. My god how lucky we are in america we have a lot of everything. Go to europe, even the food is tiny, their entree is like our appetizer

I'm joking obviously about the food, I work out a lot so for me it doesn't matter:P

Anyways supercharger is all about gas mileage. Turbos are a lot more efficient and cheaper to produce.

If BMW were a US based company, they'd probably make the BEST cars in the world.
If BMW was based here, I would ones again have to find some other brand for myself. I have done a lot of crazy shit in my life, but never have I bought an American made vehicle. Some shit should be left without trying.
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      05-10-2014, 03:18 PM   #8
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I just posted the same question in another thread

For those of you who defend bmw by saying they were forced to turbocharge the new m3 to meet eu standard for mpg and emissions, I say to you this.

Why couldn't they use a supercharger ala the 3.0 tfsi engine in the Audi s4 instead of a turbocharger? A supercharger will feel naturally aspirated, deliver a linear powerband, will not muffle/mute the sound and still achieve good mpg.

My opinion is that Bmw is fucking cheap and wants to use the same engine in every freaking car they have available. Cost cutting and profits, that's really what it comes down to.

I have a 2013 s4 used as my DD and with a simple tune and pulley I'm putting close to 400awhp while achieving 20mpg city and 31mpg highway and my car weighs 4000 pounds. Imagine a similar setup in the m3 only with a higher redline. Check out my apr stage 2 s4

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      05-10-2014, 03:20 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freeman727 View Post
Why doesn't bmw use superchargers? It would be nice to have a factory supercharged s65 as a starting point.
because bmw engineers are smarter than you
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      05-10-2014, 03:20 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KKM3
I just posted the same question in another thread

For those of you who defend bmw by saying they were forced to turbocharge the new m3 to meet eu standard for mpg and emissions, I say to you this.

Why couldn't they use a supercharger ala the 3.0 tfsi engine in the Audi s4 instead of a turbocharger? A supercharger will feel naturally aspirated, deliver a linear powerband, will not muffle/mute the sound and still achieve good mpg.

My opinion is that Bmw is fucking cheap and wants to use the same engine in every freaking car they have available. Cost cutting and profits, that's really what it comes down to.

I have a 2013 s4 used as my DD and with a simple tune and pulley I'm putting close to 400awhp while achieving 20mpg city and 31mpg highway and my car weighs 4000 pounds. Imagine a similar setup in the m3 only with a higher redline. Check out my apr stage 2 s4

This plus all the successfully supercharged s65 engines!
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      05-10-2014, 03:26 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KKM3 View Post
Have to admit: looks and sounds good
But where I come from (car wise) the M3 will be superior to everything, so I have to do small steps ...
(not saying that I will get an Audi next, this most likely will never happen!)
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      05-10-2014, 03:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KKM3 View Post
I just posted the same question in another thread

For those of you who defend bmw by saying they were forced to turbocharge the new m3 to meet eu standard for mpg and emissions, I say to you this.

Why couldn't they use a supercharger ala the 3.0 tfsi engine in the Audi s4 instead of a turbocharger? A supercharger will feel naturally aspirated, deliver a linear powerband, will not muffle/mute the sound and still achieve good mpg.

My opinion is that Bmw is fucking cheap and wants to use the same engine in every freaking car they have available. Cost cutting and profits, that's really what it comes down to.

I have a 2013 s4 used as my DD and with a simple tune and pulley I'm putting close to 400awhp while achieving 20mpg city and 31mpg highway and my car weighs 4000 pounds. Imagine a similar setup in the m3 only with a higher redline. Check out my apr stage 2 s4
]
Your argument is nonsensical. BMW is cheap using the same engine in every car? Give me a break. The S55 is very loosely based on the N55. Wheras, let's see, where do we use that ubiquitous Audi 3.0T engine? More like, where DON'T they?

S4
Q5 3.0T
SQ5 (slightly modified)
A6 3.0T
A7 3.0T
A8 3.0T
Q7 3.0T

In otherwords....in every vehicle other than the R8 and the A3 lies the nefarious 3.0T. Still think it's BMW who's cheap?

And oh yeah, let's see how long that engine lasts in the next 3-5 years. Say bye bye.

Not saying that the engine isn't good. But it's not the future.
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      05-10-2014, 03:38 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Your argument is nonsensical. BMW is cheap using the same engine in every car? Give me a break. The S55 is very loosely based on the N55. Wheras, let's see, where do we use that ubiquitous Audi 3.0T engine? More like, where DON'T they?

S4
Q5 3.0T
SQ5 (slightly modified)
A6 3.0T
A7 3.0T
A8 3.0T
Q7 3.0T

In otherwords....in every vehicle other than the R8 and the A3 lies the nefarious 3.0T. Still think it's BMW who's cheap?

And oh yeah, let's see how long that engine lasts in the next 3-5 years. Say bye bye.

Not saying that the engine isn't good. But it's not the future.
While I agree with you, most car manufacturers share their engines through their various models at least some manufacturers aim using exciting responsive motors in their cars. My s4 is as responsive as my e92 while producing far more torque and better mpg. All I'm saying is that there are still ways to improve mpg while retaining the exciting characteristics of responsive naturally aspirated engine. Bmw used to build cars more focused on drivers now it seems they are leading focus on fuel economy and emissions at a huge sacrifice feel and sound.
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      05-10-2014, 03:40 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KKM3 View Post
Bmw used to build cars more focused on drivers now it seems they are leading focus on fuel economy and emissions.
BMW's more "economical" cars will still smoke an RS4 so I'm not worried.
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      05-10-2014, 03:45 PM   #15
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BMW's more "economical" cars will still smoke an RS4 so I'm not worried.
They don't build rs4's anymore and I'm not talking about one car "smoking" another, I'm not an 18, my concerns are more related to how the engine responds to your right foot and the overall feel of the engine.
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      05-10-2014, 03:50 PM   #16
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Well, whatever the Audi equivalent is now. To be honest, I don't really care. Audi has pretty much always been 3rd behind BMW and MB when it comes to their performance models.
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      05-10-2014, 03:53 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KKM3 View Post
My opinion is that Bmw is fucking cheap and wants to use the same engine in every freaking car they have available. Cost cutting and profits, that's really what it comes down to.
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      05-10-2014, 03:56 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Your argument is nonsensical. BMW is cheap using the same engine in every car? Give me a break. The S55 is very loosely based on the N55. Wheras, let's see, where do we use that ubiquitous Audi 3.0T engine? More like, where DON'T they?

S4
Q5 3.0T
SQ5 (slightly modified)
A6 3.0T
A7 3.0T
A8 3.0T
Q7 3.0T

In otherwords....in every vehicle other than the R8 and the A3 lies the nefarious 3.0T. Still think it's BMW who's cheap?

And oh yeah, let's see how long that engine lasts in the next 3-5 years. Say bye bye.

Not saying that the engine isn't good. But it's not the future.
Well there are a bunch of VWs and Skodas to be added to this list.
Audi is a glorified VW coated with better materials.

And even though we only get their quattros in the US, majority of Audi's sales in Europe is front wheel drive cars, which is way cheaper to manufacture and the easiest, cheapest and laziest way to achieve better gas mileage and interior space.

Audi is the company that mass produces "under steer". I've driven Audis multiple times, and I never understood how Audi is a close competitor to BMW or to MB. They have great build and material quality, but the driving experience is way behind.
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      05-10-2014, 03:57 PM   #19
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Quote:
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Well, whatever the Audi equivalent is now. To be honest, I don't really care. Audi has pretty much always been 3rd behind BMW and MB when it comes to their performance models.
This may have been the case 3 years ago but it's a whole different ball game. I used to only drive bmws until all their cars turned into n54's n55's. I have an r8 v10 I owned a couple of Porsches including a gt3 and I have since seen the light. I hope a lot more of you will come to see the light too. Other manufacturers have really stepped up and proven that bmw is not at the top of she hill anymore. I implore you to drive other cars besides bmws to see my point.

I haven't driven the new m3 so I will still reserve judgment on the newest m model. I am really hoping I like the new engine because I really like everything else about the car.
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      05-10-2014, 04:00 PM   #20
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Sorry, but an R8 and GT3 are approaching supercar territory. BMW doesn't have a supercar.

Audi's competitor to pretty much every M car in the lineup has always and continues to fall short.
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      05-10-2014, 04:09 PM   #21
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Sorry, but an R8 and GT3 are approaching supercar territory.
And at the bottom line they are still just VWs
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      05-10-2014, 04:14 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Your argument is nonsensical. BMW is cheap using the same engine in every car? Give me a break. The S55 is very loosely based on the N55. Wheras, let's see, where do we use that ubiquitous Audi 3.0T engine? More like, where DON'T they?

S4
Q5 3.0T
SQ5 (slightly modified)
A6 3.0T
A7 3.0T
A8 3.0T
Q7 3.0T

In otherwords....in every vehicle other than the R8 and the A3 lies the nefarious 3.0T. Still think it's BMW who's cheap?

And oh yeah, let's see how long that engine lasts in the next 3-5 years. Say bye bye.

Not saying that the engine isn't good. But it's not the future.
S55 and N55 are from a block perspective identical. They have the same bore, stroke, and size. The cooling and the turbos are definitely very different, but not so much to the point of S65 vs N54 back in the day.
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