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      04-23-2014, 04:39 PM   #1
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991 Carrera S vs M4

I wanted to start a debate on these two cars.

I had a discussion with one of my friends and I know there aren't any good reviews or videos of the new M3/M4 out yet but who here thinks it can beat the Carrera S in a straight line? PDK vs DCT?

The Carrera S looks really fast from previous videos Ive seen. If this M3 had DCT, I doubt it would still keep up....


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      04-23-2014, 05:13 PM   #2
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Ive debated this option in my mind for a while and I've watched countless reviews on the Porsche, but I just can't justify the price difference once I've built a decent Carrera S. I mean seriously, when I build my M it comes out to around 80K. The Porsche usually ends up near 115k easy. Is it worth the extra 35k? To me, no. Less HP and less torque, no CCBs but a 300lb weight advantage. For that I would strongly consider an Audi R8 V8, or even the V8 F Type Coupe. In my mind its really a stretch to compare the cars because of the price differences, but yet you're getting very similar performance. And then there is the Cayman GTS option.. but when its all said and done I see myself buying the M.

just my .02
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      04-23-2014, 05:24 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imola3 View Post
Ive debated this option in my mind for a while and I've watched countless reviews on the Porsche, but I just can't justify the price difference once I've built a decent Carrera S. I mean seriously, when I build my M it comes out to around 80K. The Porsche usually ends up near 115k easy. Is it worth the extra 35k? To me, no. Less HP and less torque, no CCBs but a 300lb weight advantage. For that I would strongly consider an Audi R8 V8, or even the V8 F Type Coupe. In my mind its really a stretch to compare the cars because of the price differences, but yet you're getting very similar performance. And then there is the Cayman GTS option.. but when its all said and done I see myself buying the M.

just my .02

I know I am buying the M4. But my question is how well will it hold up with a carrera S around the track and straight line is my question.


There is no doubt in my mind that theyre a bit overpriced, but they really do look amazing in person(especially the 991, never cared for the 997).
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      04-23-2014, 05:53 PM   #4
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It really does look fantastic. I see them all the time where I live. Considering the fact that the new Carrera S does 7:37.9 at Nurburgring and we are told the F8x is about 10 seconds quicker than the E9x which did the lap in 8:05. Thats the best answer you're going to get for now I think

991 Carrera S http://fastestlaps.com/cars/porsche_991_carrera_s.html

E9x http://fastestlaps.com/cars/bmw_m3_e92.html

F8x http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=934947

Last edited by Imola3; 04-23-2014 at 06:06 PM..
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      04-23-2014, 09:15 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imola3
It really does look fantastic. I see them all the time where I live. Considering the fact that the new Carrera S does 7:37.9 at Nurburgring and we are told the F8x is about 10 seconds quicker than the E9x which did the lap in 8:05. Thats the best answer you're going to get for now I think

991 Carrera S http://fastestlaps.com/cars/porsche_991_carrera_s.html

E9x http://fastestlaps.com/cars/bmw_m3_e92.html

F8x http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=934947
Oh wow so the Carrera S is almost 20 seconds faster than the F8X M3/M4
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      04-23-2014, 10:59 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NavidM3E92 View Post
Oh wow so the Carrera S is almost 20 seconds faster than the F8X M3/M4
The Carrera S is a sports car, the M3/M4 is a sporty luxury car. Two entirely different performance capabilities.

The Porsche is MUCH more expensive because, part-per-part, it has more expensive components and is built to higher standards with better materials. Porsches are the best built cars money can buy. Period. Are they worth the $50k premium? I do not think so. But just don't ever get behind the wheel of one because it will ruin you.
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      04-24-2014, 09:08 AM   #7
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straight line yes, track doubt it seriously. trap speeds should be really close, if not a small advantage for the m3. the 991s does have a notable advantage in off the line traction.

the new 991s is a serious machine on the track despite its lack of "blazing" straight line speed.
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      04-24-2014, 10:21 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basscadet View Post
The Carrera S is a sports car, the M3/M4 is a sporty luxury car. Two entirely different performance capabilities.

The Porsche is MUCH more expensive because, part-per-part, it has more expensive components and is built to higher standards with better materials. Porsches are the best built cars money can buy. Period. Are they worth the $50k premium? I do not think so. But just don't ever get behind the wheel of one because it will ruin you.
I have been driving M3s since 2008 and I have been considering jumping to the C2S. I have compared the M4 loaded with the Carrera S not so much loaded and the difference is $30,000. I have been to the Porsche factory in Stuttgart and I saw first hand the reason for the cost. First, P cars are completely made by hand, the only robot used is to mount the windshield. Second, the quality of the paint, leather, engine and transmission parts are superior to BMW (orange peel is all over the place on any BMW car). Third, performance is superior due to its weight to horsepower ratio. As you metioned a true sport car. Unfortunately, I need to save money for another year in order to afford my dream car. I wonder why did you mean by "it will ruin you".
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      04-24-2014, 11:27 AM   #9
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I got rid of My '11 e92 for a '14 C2. Not an S. I'm not so sure the differences in build quality between the M and porsche are even measurable to be honest. My seat already has a bit of fraying on the leather bolster. Could be a fluke. Other than that...id say I'm willing to pay the premium to own a Porsche and I'm ok with that. It's fantastic..so low to the ground and wide. I also realized that hp isn't everything as this 350 hp feels like 400.
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      04-24-2014, 01:21 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 48Laws View Post
I got rid of My '11 e92 for a '14 C2. Not an S. I'm not so sure the differences in build quality between the M and porsche are even measurable to be honest. My seat already has a bit of fraying on the leather bolster. Could be a fluke. Other than that...id say I'm willing to pay the premium to own a Porsche and I'm ok with that. It's fantastic..so low to the ground and wide. I also realized that hp isn't everything as this 350 hp feels like 400.
Well said.
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      04-25-2014, 09:42 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 48Laws View Post
I got rid of My '11 e92 for a '14 C2. Not an S. I'm not so sure the differences in build quality between the M and porsche are even measurable to be honest. My seat already has a bit of fraying on the leather bolster. Could be a fluke. Other than that...id say I'm willing to pay the premium to own a Porsche and I'm ok with that. It's fantastic..so low to the ground and wide. I also realized that hp isn't everything as this 350 hp feels like 400.
I'm torn. It is very tempting, an you're not helping!
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      04-25-2014, 11:23 AM   #12
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I'm looking forward to seeing how the M3/M4 perform, but I can't see them being in the same class performance wise as a 991S. Perhaps straight line performance will be close, but it looks like the weight difference will be around 300 lbs. I'm disappointed the weight reduction isn't that much from the E92 M3 as part of the thrill of a sports car for me is that light, nimble feel. I also feel like the new M3/M4 have gotten to be too big to feel like genuine sports cars. They will be extremely high performing sports sedans/coupes, but they are not going to provide the same experience as a car that is 300 lbs lighter, 4" lower, and nearly 8" shorter in length. Of course, the price is in a whole different league as well!
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      04-25-2014, 11:35 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basscadet View Post
The Carrera S is a sports car, the M3/M4 is a sporty luxury car. Two entirely different performance capabilities.

The Porsche is MUCH more expensive because, part-per-part, it has more expensive components and is built to higher standards with better materials. Porsches are the best built cars money can buy. Period. Are they worth the $50k premium? I do not think so. But just don't ever get behind the wheel of one because it will ruin you.
Not sure about the "best built"part.

Having owned a few recent 911s, my current 2012 M3 is it's equal (or superior) in build. Take a look at the M3 suspension and subframes relative to the 911. I would actually say the M3's are nicer. Fully forged and boxed. The 911 doesn't even have rear fender liners for chrissakes! 8 throttle bodies on a hand built engine Vs. a single plastic throttle body on the 911. Which one costs more? I can't even think of a part on my 911 that would stand out against any car in it's class. But what they do with all of those chintzy mass-produced parts is what is amazing...

The engineering that porsche displays is the awesome part though.....Yes, the 991S is perfect. It sickens me how amazing it is. I could not find any nits to pick on road or track. Maybe the high shifter might have bothered me a bit. But that is more my problem than the car's.

Porsche also has a whole other concept on pricing that is not related to quality or engineering. A CF roof on a porsche would be a $20,000 option. I mean, even the M steering wheel would be a $1K upgrade (deviated stitching-$600/Thicker rim-$250/muti-function-$450)....Even the GTI has a nice wheel than porsche. you want a porsche symbol on you wheels...cough up another $250. Floor mats, forget it. Power seats? Nope.

You want to see well-built? Look at some bare-frame schematics of an R8. And it costs less than a C4S. It brings tears to my eyes to watch them hand-build an R8......
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      04-25-2014, 12:09 PM   #14
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That video makes the C2S look scary fast compared to an e90 m3. Wow it walked away considering that was a rolling start.
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      04-25-2014, 03:28 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocJohn View Post
Not sure about the "best built"part.

Having owned a few recent 911s, my current 2012 M3 is it's equal (or superior) in build. Take a look at the M3 suspension and subframes relative to the 911. I would actually say the M3's are nicer. Fully forged and boxed. The 911 doesn't even have rear fender liners for chrissakes! 8 throttle bodies on a hand built engine Vs. a single plastic throttle body on the 911. Which one costs more? I can't even think of a part on my 911 that would stand out against any car in it's class. But what they do with all of those chintzy mass-produced parts is what is amazing...

The engineering that porsche displays is the awesome part though.....Yes, the 991S is perfect. It sickens me how amazing it is. I could not find any nits to pick on road or track. Maybe the high shifter might have bothered me a bit. But that is more my problem than the car's.

Porsche also has a whole other concept on pricing that is not related to quality or engineering. A CF roof on a porsche would be a $20,000 option. I mean, even the M steering wheel would be a $1K upgrade (deviated stitching-$600/Thicker rim-$250/muti-function-$450)....Even the GTI has a nice wheel than porsche. you want a porsche symbol on you wheels...cough up another $250. Floor mats, forget it. Power seats? Nope.

You want to see well-built? Look at some bare-frame schematics of an R8. And it costs less than a C4S. It brings tears to my eyes to watch them hand-build an R8......

Great points made, especially about the R8. It would be difficult for me to choose a 991 C4S over an R8 because of what you said AND lets not forget it is a proper mid engined super car with a V8!
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      04-25-2014, 05:49 PM   #16
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I would take a C4S over the R8 anyday. The Porsche is the ultimate driver's car. I could even go to the GT3 for the same cost of the R8 V8.
I don't think that you can even compare BMW to Porsche at the 991 level, and that's says a lot coming from a loyal BMW owner. The only problem is that I am $30,000 short to jump to the other side. PM for donations!
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      04-25-2014, 05:58 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basscadet View Post
The Carrera S is a sports car, the M3/M4 is a sporty luxury car. Two entirely different performance capabilities.
I agree with this.

Two different types of cars. Both are excellent at what they do.

If you line them both up, I'm predicting that the F8X will keep up with the 991 S.
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      04-25-2014, 07:13 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trucheli
I would take a C4S over the R8 anyday. The Porsche is the ultimate driver's car. I could even go to the GT3 for the same cost of the R8 V8.
I don't think that you can even compare BMW to Porsche at the 991 level, and that's says a lot coming from a loyal BMW owner. The only problem is that I am $30,000 short to jump to the other side. PM for donations!
It's funny you say that. I feel the same exact way. People think I'm crazy I was considering the new GT3 over an R8. Never cared for Audi.
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      04-25-2014, 07:53 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NavidM3E92 View Post
It's funny you say that. I feel the same exact way. People think I'm crazy I was considering the new GT3 over an R8. Never cared for Audi.
I think it is a commonly held belief that an R8 is a better DD than a GT3. I don't know which is better but I would have the GT3 over the Audi. However I would highly consider the Audi over a C4S if that makes sense. Would come down to test drives
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      04-25-2014, 08:08 PM   #20
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Porsche is the most profitable car maker in the world. The most profitable. Think about what that means for someone who buys one of their cars; they're paying the most and receiving the least in return. Of course Porsche owners are going to defend what they buy, but when they step back and think about it they know they paid too much.

You pay an absolute premium for their cars and yet they seem to have a problem honoring their warranty. Lately the way I've been looking at Porsche is that they want to fleece their customers as much as possible and yet don't give a crap about them after the sale.
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      04-26-2014, 01:22 AM   #21
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The P-car better be $50K faster.
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      04-29-2014, 04:53 AM   #22
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Same with me,,,, Porsche may be the emotional itch that needs to be scratched. In the "parked next to" comparison, it's always the GT3. They've both got the same orange peel, reliability, on average, and whatever else. One just takes my breath away a little more. When some time passes, after the itch is scratched, the M4 might be one you want to own, because then you can get your shit home from the lumber yard too.
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