Unique parts content: M Performance vs. M

[MeganeTrophyGuy]

M-Performace cars like my M135 supposedly have about 30-40% original parts when compared with the regular cars in their line while M-cars supposedly have 70-80% original parts.

[Never Convicted]

Quoting from another thread:

Originally Posted by MeganeTrophyGuy

... "lesser M" ...

Dude, your 135i is not a "lesser M" car. It's not an M car at all. It's a 1 series with some paint and tape.

[aajami]

Originally Posted by MeganeTrophyGuy

M-Performace cars like my M135 supposedly have about 30-40% original parts when compared with the regular cars in their line...

Where are you getting that stat from?

[MeganeTrophyGuy]

Originally Posted by Never Convicted

Dude, your 135i is not a "lesser M" car. It's not an M car at all. It's a 1 series with some paint and tape.

LOL! How many 1 series besides the M135 have been clocked doing 0-100kph in 4.6 sec? That's faster than any non-M 1, 3 5, 6 or 7 series in the fleet and faster than many previous generation M-cars.

THEY call it an "M Performance" car not me...

Some pretty fast tape...

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by MeganeTrophyGuy

LOL! How many 1 series besides the M135 have been clocked doing 0-100kph in 4.6 sec? That's faster than any non-M 1, 3 5, 6 or 7 series in the fleet and faster than many previous generation M-cars.

THEY call it an "M Performance" car not me...

Some pretty fast tape...

I have not seen many 0-100km/h at 4.6s for the M135i. More in the 4.9s range. 0-60mph in 4.6s may be possible though. Can you quote your source?

[MeganeTrophyGuy]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I have not seen many 0-100km/h at 4.6s for the M135i. More in the 4.9s range. 0-60mph in 4.6s may be possible though. Can you quote your source?

With regard to acceleration figures. 4.9 is the official figure that BMW puts out which we all know is on the conservative side for past M-cars. Many magazines who don't have testing gear quote the 4.9 figure but most of the ones which are actually doing the testing themselves come up with 4.5-4.7 sec (not bad for a car that doesn't use launch control gimmickry to make a fast start). Though I don't have the links handy, I think it was a Chris Harris video on MotorHead that tested the M135 at 4.5 seconds and I saw a Sports Auto report putting it at 4.7 seconds with 2 adults in the car. Here are a few other sub 4.9 times:

4.7sec http://fastestlaps.com/cars/bmw_m135i_f20.html
4.7 sec http://www.autoevolution.com/reviews...ical-data.html
4.6 sec http://www.automobile-catalog.com/auta_perf1.php
4.6 sec http://www.**************.com/commun...a45-amg.49642/

[MeganeTrophyGuy]

Originally Posted by aajami

Where are you getting that stat from?

With regard to the 30-40% changed parts for M Performance vs. 70-80% for full-on M Cars, I've seen those numbers thrown around in a few articles, usually in interviews with BMW engineers trying to introduce the M Performance line and explain how it sits at the halfway point between lower M-Sport models which are usually limited to suspension and cosmetic changes and full on M-cars. I can't find the article I was thinking of when I wrote the original post, but here is one where the engineer gives an exact number rather than a range (30% upgraded parts for the new "M Performance brand" M135 vs 80% for a typical full on M-Car):

https://www.m-power.com/_open/b/varl...d=2807&lang=en

[aajami]

Originally Posted by MeganeTrophyGuy

With regard to the 30-40% changed parts for M Performance vs. 70-80% for full-on M Cars, I've seen those numbers thrown around in a few articles, usually in interviews with BMW engineers trying to introduce the M Performance line and explain how it sits at the halfway point between lower M-Sport models which are usually limited to suspension and cosmetic changes and full on M-cars. I can't find the article I was thinking of when I wrote the original post, but here is one where the engineer gives an exact number rather than a range (30% upgraded parts for the new "M Performance brand" M135 vs 80% for a typical full on M-Car):

https://www.m-power.com/_open/b/varl...d=2807&lang=en

Thanks for the link. When you consider that a car is made up of thousands (if not tens of thousands) of individual parts, both figures seem really inflated. That, or BMW's definition of what "changed" or "completely changed" means is liberal.

[MeganeTrophyGuy]

Originally Posted by aajami

Thanks for the link. When you consider that a car is made up of thousands (if not tens of thousands) of individual parts, both figures seem really inflated. That, or BMW's definition of what "changed" or "completely changed" means is liberal.

I think you are probably right and asking a PR guy how different their "new and improved" product is from the ordinary one will almost always result in inflated claims and figures. I suppose this is why car salesman are consistently ranked as the least trustworthy of all professions in the US (even beating out those nasty old lawyers!)...

[pkimM3r]

Its the new 135. Gees here come the magazine lap time links again.

[MeganeTrophyGuy]

Originally Posted by SlowSaloonM3

Its the new 135. Gees here come the magazine lap time links again.

Not sure what your point is here. Magazine lap times are not to be believed and manufacturer claims are the only figures of any importance?

I provided them simply because I was asked for them. Having previously owned a late generation E36 M3 and E46 Alpina B3S I am VERY aware that BMW is notoriously conservative in reporting acceleration times and that people who own these cars are sometimes interested in hearing quantitative, independently tested numbers.

Whether the M135 does 0-100 in 4.9 or 4.6 is not really a big deal as either time is astonishingly fast, faster than my 2010 Boxster S… I was simply disagreeing with the bloke who claimed that the M135 is a regular 1 series with some nice paint and tape on it. I don't know much about the 1 series beyond my M135i but doubt that you would get a 4.6 sec time for a 114, 118, 120 or 125 no matter what color the paint...

[jbraslins]

regular 135 with dct and cobb tune would do it

[Never Convicted]

Originally Posted by MeganeTrophyGuy

Not sure what your point is here. Magazine lap times are not to be believed and manufacturer claims are the only figures of any importance?

I provided them simply because I was asked for them. Having previously owned a late generation E36 M3 and E46 Alpina B3S I am VERY aware that BMW is notoriously conservative in reporting acceleration times and that people who own these cars are sometimes interested in hearing quantitative, independently tested numbers.

Whether the M135 does 0-100 in 4.9 or 4.6 is not really a big deal as either time is astonishingly fast, faster than my 2010 Boxster S… I was simply disagreeing with the bloke who claimed that the M135 is a regular 1 series with some nice paint and tape on it. I don't know much about the 1 series beyond my M135i but doubt that you would get a 4.6 sec time for a 114, 118, 120 or 125 no matter what color the paint...

So, going by your sources, your cousin has a buddy who's sister's boyfriend knows a guy who said that a 135 does a 4.6 0-100kph. By the way, the fastestlaps.com source was the best, especially the comments section. And the 30-40% is actually 30%. So, yeah, now I'm humbled.

[MeganeTrophyGuy]

Originally Posted by Never Convicted

So, going by your sources, your cousin has a buddy who's sister's boyfriend knows a guy who said that a 135 does a 4.6 0-100kph. By the way, the fastestlaps.com source was the best, especially the comments section. And the 30-40% is actually 30%. So, yeah, now I'm humbled.

Lmao but you are a funny one! That was 5-6 published articles I found in about 10 min. Search around - there are a lot more. Don't shoot the reporter, I'm just linking to published studies in answer to a ridiculously condescending and unsubstantiated claim that the M135 is just a 1 series with nice paint…

I never claimed it was a full on M-car but that it is pretty good as a model that sits squarely between M-cars and the mostly cosmetic M-Sport packages that BMW sells.

You can sit on your high-M3-horse and pretend you have the most perfect machine BMW has ever produced and that the lowly M135 is just a 1 series with some nice paint, but the fact remains that some M3 owners (myself being one of them) don't like that M3s are getting bigger, heavier and more technology laden with each successive generation and remember when BMW used to make fun, light weight sports cars (the first M3 being the best example). Though the M135i is not light at 1410 kg, its far lighter than M3/4/5/6 and has a pretty fun 320hp straight six stuffed under the hood.

As for your looking down on a car that has only 30% different parts than a standard 1 series, there are some out there who might consider the following list of upgrades as being more than just a paint job…

A non-comprehensive list of M Performance enhancements on the M135i beyond "nice paint and tape":

- revised sports suspension
- revised front axle
- new traverse control arm
- new swivel bearing
- new sports steering
- new sports brakes (4 pot)
- new forged crank
- upgraded engine cooling system
- N55 motor with single turbo (10 kW more than in the standard engine of the BMW 3 Series, as well as 50 Nm more torque)
- larger air inlets and exclusive front end
- different sports settings for 8 speed ZF AT with 200 millisecond shift times
- specially adapted sports exhaust w/o central silencer and special exhaust flap exclusive to M135i
- new tires just for M135 (225 front 245 back)

The car ran the Nurbrgring in 8:05 fully stock (same time as your E92 M3 if I am not mistaken), not bad for a car that the engineers say was tuned for street rather than track use…

http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2012/12/...g-Lap-7711996/

[Maddict3]

Originally Posted by MeganeTrophyGuy

LOL! How many 1 series besides the M135 have been clocked doing 0-100kph in 4.6 sec? That's faster than any non-M 1, 3 5, 6 or 7 series in the fleet and faster than many previous generation M-cars.

THEY call it an "M Performance" car not me...

Some pretty fast tape...

LMAO Sorry to break it to you but he is right.

just because the M135 clocked 4.6 to 60 doesn't make it an M car. he is right its a 135 with a bunch tape.

Also I dont understand how if you "loved the glorious sound of the V10" and decided you wouldn't even consider the F10 M5 why the hell did you buy a 135 and are planning on buying the M4?

I think you're just a bit bored and feel like trolling.

[MeganeTrophyGuy]

Originally Posted by Maddict3

LMAO Sorry to break it to you but he is right.

just because the M135 clocked 4.6 to 60 doesn't make it an M car. he is right its a 135 with a bunch tape.

Also I dont understand how if you "loved the glorious sound of the V10" and decided you wouldn't even consider the F10 M5 why the hell did you buy a 135 and are planning on buying the M4?

I think you're just a bit bored and feel like trolling.

Sorry kiddo, this is the THIRD time I've said that I DONT consider the M135i as a full-on M Car, but rather a very nice model well above the M-Sport but below a full on M-car. It fits my needs perfectly as a short term purchase as I don't intend to track this one and needed to have the AT transmission for my wife with our new parking arrangement (my manual Megane RS Trophy was always blocking her and she can't drive a manual).

As for my car purchases, I change sports cars fairly often as I am able to write them off as company expenses, changing every 18-24 months on average. I decided against the F10 more than 3-4 cars ago, following my wife's advice and going for the smaller Alpina B3S instead (a big mistake as the transmission was an absolute piece of crap - I was so disappointed by it that I ended up selling it in less than a year).

I had HOPED that the new M4 would mark my return to M cars next year when I need to change again for the new tax year, but honestly speaking, this forum is helping me to understand that the BMW-fold may not be the best place for me. When I owned Porsches, Alfas, Renaults, Golf Gtis and even Scoobies, the forums were populated with passionate enthusiasts who loved to talk and debate about their cars while encouraging and helping other owners to enjoy them. For many years I was a passionate BMW owner. This is my 7th BMW but my first in 5 years, and though I was amazed and excited by how good the M135i is and was all ready to talk about it as well as the upcoming M3 and M4, the majority of what I've gotten here so far has been condescension, arrogance and outright anger - if this is what BMW ownership has become all about in my 5 year absence, then I clearly do not belong here.

Paint and Tape? LMFAO....

[Thurman Murch]

I see the M235i as the 335is of the 2 series... Except the brakes weren't good enough for the 335is

It's more justifiable than the 135is this time around... N54 > n55 - hpfp/injector issues vs vanos bolt issues

I'm sure the m135i is awesome

It is quick and nimble and priced decent

The m perf or is models seem to have better cohesion and more performance even if from an overboost function auto seems way faster

The f3x with MPPK and mpe doesn't seem that fast at least with the manual not the same as a m3/435i if it were to come

I feel the intake design of the new m perf n55/s55 is lacking... I like the standard 335i/older n55 intake design better

The looks of the new M look good from the front and front sides but just doesn't capture it to me like the e92m... The one mineral white pics look good

White and silver capture the f3x the best to me

The e46 while I like the size and interior doesn't have the best looks to me but it drives amazing and I love the e46m and e92m

I'm not liking the comfort nor the looks or feel of the new interior... The new display is sharp but that's about it

I think the m235i is the current essence of BMW as well as the x1 xdrive35i...

It sucks if you have to roll down the windows and moonroof to hear the car

And at least offering a track pack for 228i

I really hope the carbon fiber diet and performance is there with the new f8x as most newer details in addition to the cheap interior and inferior and boar feel of the f3x basis has me at odds

[MeganeTrophyGuy]

Originally Posted by Thurman Murch

I see the M235i as the 335is of the 2 series... Except the brakes weren't good enough for the 335is

It's more justifiable than the 135is this time around... N54 > n55 - hpfp/injector issues vs vanos bolt issues

I'm sure the m135i is awesome

It is quick and nimble and priced decent

The m perf or is models seem to have better cohesion and more performance even if from an overboost function auto seems way faster

The f3x with MPPK and mpe doesn't seem that fast at least with the manual not the same as a m3/435i if it were to come

I feel the intake design of the new m perf n55/s55 is lacking... I like the standard 335i/older n55 intake design better

The looks of the new M look good from the front and front sides but just doesn't capture it to me like the e92m... The one mineral white pics look good

White and silver capture the f3x the best to me

The e46 while I like the size and interior doesn't have the best looks to me but it drives amazing and I love the e46m and e92m

I'm not liking the comfort nor the looks or feel of the new interior... The new display is sharp but that's about it

I think the m235i is the current essence of BMW as well as the x1 xdrive35i...

It sucks if you have to roll down the windows and moonroof to hear the car

And at least offering a track pack for 228i

I really hope the carbon fiber diet and performance is there with the new f8x as most newer details in addition to the cheap interior and inferior and boar feel of the f3x basis has me at odds

I like the look of the M235i better than the M135i but they are both basically just very well done compact cars and like you said, the E92 in white (with carbon roof especially) looks fantastic even after so many years on the market, appropriately menacing and elegant at the same time!

As for the E46's, I think my E46 Alpina B3S was gorgeous (was in Alpina Blue with 20" wheels), much better looking than regular E46 M3s IMHO, though I think the E46 CSL is one of the all time great M3s ever made, and even today would by one in a NY second if I thought I could afford the repair bills out of warranty.

Agree that the brakes on my M135i, though they do have 4 pot calipers, are not in the same league as an M3 (or my old Porsche Boxster S, or even my recent Megane RS Trophy's Brembos), but then again, the M135i was designed from the start as more as a GT street car rather than something for all out track duty (thus the lack of a mechanical diff), and I think the brakes are more than up to any challenge a normal road would throw at it.

That said, I had it up in the mountains for a few hours of hard driving last weekend and though they showed excellent feel and modulation, doing quite a good job despite me pushing it through dozens of hairpins almost back to back, I did notice a bit of fade towards the end of my longest runs (usually 10+ min of non-stop hard cornering) - again evidence that while the brakes are indeed good ones, they are not quite up to full-bore circuit work (my guess is that like with my old E36 M3, the addition of braided hoses and higher rated DOT brake fluid will make a huge difference on the fade issue).

[dharo1]

Originally Posted by MeganeTrophyGuy

Sorry kiddo, this is the THIRD time I've said that I DONT consider the M135i as a full-on M Car, but rather a very nice model well above the M-Sport but below a full on M-car. It fits my needs perfectly as a short term purchase as I don't intend to track this one and needed to have the AT transmission for my wife with our new parking arrangement (my manual Megane RS Trophy was always blocking her and she can't drive a manual).

As for my car purchases, I change sports cars fairly often as I am able to write them off as company expenses, changing every 18-24 months on average. I decided against the F10 more than 3-4 cars ago, following my wife's advice and going for the smaller Alpina B3S instead (a big mistake as the transmission was an absolute piece of crap - I was so disappointed by it that I ended up selling it in less than a year).

I had HOPED that the new M4 would mark my return to M cars next year when I need to change again for the new tax year, but honestly speaking, this forum is helping me to understand that the BMW-fold may not be the best place for me. When I owned Porsches, Alfas, Renaults, Golf Gtis and even Scoobies, the forums were populated with passionate enthusiasts who loved to talk and debate about their cars while encouraging and helping other owners to enjoy them. For many years I was a passionate BMW owner. This is my 7th BMW but my first in 5 years, and though I was amazed and excited by how good the M135i is and was all ready to talk about it as well as the upcoming M3 and M4, the majority of what I've gotten here so far has been condescension, arrogance and outright anger - if this is what BMW ownership has become all about in my 5 year absence, then I clearly do not belong here.

Paint and Tape? LMFAO....

Come on over to the 2-series forums. Passionate enthusiasts who just love talking and debating their cars! We all know we don't have a full M car, but at least the 2 series captures much more the original uncompromised essence of BMW.

[Maddict3]

Originally Posted by MeganeTrophyGuy

Sorry kiddo, this is the THIRD time I've said that I DONT consider the M135i as a full-on M Car, but rather a very nice model well above the M-Sport but below a full on M-car. It fits my needs perfectly as a short term purchase as I don't intend to track this one and needed to have the AT transmission for my wife with our new parking arrangement (my manual Megane RS Trophy was always blocking her and she can't drive a manual).

As for my car purchases, I change sports cars fairly often as I am able to write them off as company expenses, changing every 18-24 months on average. I decided against the F10 more than 3-4 cars ago, following my wife's advice and going for the smaller Alpina B3S instead (a big mistake as the transmission was an absolute piece of crap - I was so disappointed by it that I ended up selling it in less than a year).

I had HOPED that the new M4 would mark my return to M cars next year when I need to change again for the new tax year, but honestly speaking, this forum is helping me to understand that the BMW-fold may not be the best place for me. When I owned Porsches, Alfas, Renaults, Golf Gtis and even Scoobies, the forums were populated with passionate enthusiasts who loved to talk and debate about their cars while encouraging and helping other owners to enjoy them. For many years I was a passionate BMW owner. This is my 7th BMW but my first in 5 years, and though I was amazed and excited by how good the M135i is and was all ready to talk about it as well as the upcoming M3 and M4, the majority of what I've gotten here so far has been condescension, arrogance and outright anger - if this is what BMW ownership has become all about in my 5 year absence, then I clearly do not belong here.

Paint and Tape? LMFAO....

You remind me of an old lady..

LMFAO you're going to miss out on the new M4 because people on a forum are arrogant? Cmon man..

Im glad you recognize the M135 is not an M car. I personally think its a ugly car but love how BMW put it together except for the name and all the M badges. I got a chance to drive the new M235i and I loved it. the 8 speed was fantastic and even though its not a DCT shifts are extremely fast and power delivery was outstanding.

[MeganeTrophyGuy]

Originally Posted by Maddict3

You remind me of an old lady..

LMFAO you're going to miss out on the new M4 because people on a forum are arrogant? Cmon man..

Im glad you recognize the M135 is not an M car. I personally think its a ugly car but love how BMW put it together except for the name and all the M badges. I got a chance to drive the new M235i and I loved it. the 8 speed was fantastic and even though its not a DCT shifts are extremely fast and power delivery was outstanding.

Not exactly.

Though you are right that I was both surprised and disappointed by the dismissive, and arrogant tone of several people on this forum, I actually began this thread as a discussion of BMWs resorting to artificial methods (in both my M135 as well as in the M3/4 and 5) to produce engine and exhaust noise, something I find objectionable in a full on M-car but that I was willing to live with in my M135.

In addition to what I feel is an over-reliance on high technology by the M-division (try driving a Lotus if you don't believe that low-tech approaches can be fast, sporty and fun), I also mentioned that I don't like the way M-cars are getting bigger and heavier with each successive generation, forcing BMW to rely even more on technology and ultra high output to keep their performance numbers improving. Ironically, this last point is probably one of the things that brought me temporarily back to the BMW fold - as, at least in some ways, the M135i harks back to the BMW days of old, like the old E30 M3 which had a powerful engine stuffed into a small, lightweight body. Though my car is not "light" like an E30 or a Lotus, the M135i has 320hp and a 50/50 weight distribution to push around only about 1400kg, it's far lighter than all modern M3s including the F30, E92, E46 or even E36.

I will of course test drive the M4, but the issues of curb weight, artificially produced engine noise and over reliance on technology are all concerns. But as a true car enthusiast who loves to pore over and discuss the details of the car I am driving with other, being part of a community of like-minded owners is also an important part of the experience. In the pre-internet forum era, I was a serious, involved and happy member of BMW CCA for more than a decade (having owned 6 BMWs by 2008), and loved our Roundel Magazine and the positive, enthusiastic and supportive atmosphere we owners had for each other.

After a 5-6 year absence, I came to this forum mistakenly thinking that this spirit of camaraderie among BMW owners would still be alive and was very much looking forward to getting back to discussing the strengths and weaknesses of our cars and of BMW as a company (you need to know that historically, it has been in part, the resolute passion of the BMW CCA membership that pressured BMW to build and offer certain models for the US market).

To be attacked, ridiculed, dismissed and looked down upon for daring to mention these things as issues to be discussed (or daring to mention that the M135 is a car with merits beyond being a 1 series with a nice paint job) was to say the least, a shocking, eye-opening experience that has indeed made me wonder if returning to the BMW fold was the right decision...

[Sapper_M3]

Why is this even a thread? What are we arguing about here..?

It is absolutely irrelevant how many "unique" parts each car has to its name. If the M135 had 0% "unique" parts (whatever this means) and was still as great a car as we all know it is, would you value it any less?

The M135 is a great car produced by BMW AG. If this is all coming down to a badge-coveting, BMW-has-truly-succeeded-in-making-us-all-believe-the-stupid-M-sticker-slapping-hype, then you'll never truly be happy unless you're driving a car made by BMW M. If that isn't the case, then just be happy with your VERY NICE car. Who cares whether people believe it's an "M" car or not..?