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      04-06-2014, 07:12 PM   #1
catpat8000
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AWD vs. RWD

April R&T has a test of the E63 and observed 0-60 of 3.2s and 1/4 of 11.5 @ 123 mph.

I've had the good fortune to drive both the M5 and the E63 and the E63 is really unbelievable. It feels like you are being hurled from a catapault because at any speed, you have full power available at the wheels. With the M5, and presumably the M3, traction is a major problem below 60 mph.

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      04-06-2014, 07:23 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catpat8000
April R&T has a test of the E63 and observed 0-60 of 3.2s and 1/4 of 11.5 @ 123 mph.

I've had the good fortune to drive both the M5 and the E63 and the E63 is really unbelievable. It feels like you are being hurled from a catapault because at any speed, you have full power available at the wheels. With the M5, and presumably the M3, traction is a major problem below 60 mph.

Pat
M5 trap speed match the e63. With some slicks it would run the same I think.
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      04-07-2014, 07:45 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catpat8000
April R&T has a test of the E63 and observed 0-60 of 3.2s and 1/4 of 11.5 @ 123 mph.

I've had the good fortune to drive both the M5 and the E63 and the E63 is really unbelievable. It feels like you are being hurled from a catapault because at any speed, you have full power available at the wheels. With the M5, and presumably the M3, traction is a major problem below 60 mph.

Pat
An e63 does not walk away from the m5, the recent motortrend article actually gave a 1 mph advantage to the BMW. Better gearing and rwd is partially responsible even w less power.
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      04-07-2014, 08:08 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP
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Originally Posted by catpat8000
April R&T has a test of the E63 and observed 0-60 of 3.2s and 1/4 of 11.5 @ 123 mph.

I've had the good fortune to drive both the M5 and the E63 and the E63 is really unbelievable. It feels like you are being hurled from a catapault because at any speed, you have full power available at the wheels. With the M5, and presumably the M3, traction is a major problem below 60 mph.

Pat
An e63 does not walk away from the m5, the recent motortrend article actually gave a 1 mph advantage to the BMW. Better gearing and rwd is partially responsible even w less power.
Trap speed yes, but e63 can to 11.5 while M5 is more 12.0. Four wheel drive is always gonna be faster in the quarter on a car like that.
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      04-07-2014, 08:28 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonymiabmw
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Originally Posted by ASAP
Quote:
Originally Posted by catpat8000
April R&T has a test of the E63 and observed 0-60 of 3.2s and 1/4 of 11.5 @ 123 mph.

I've had the good fortune to drive both the M5 and the E63 and the E63 is really unbelievable. It feels like you are being hurled from a catapault because at any speed, you have full power available at the wheels. With the M5, and presumably the M3, traction is a major problem below 60 mph.

Pat
An e63 does not walk away from the m5, the recent motortrend article actually gave a 1 mph advantage to the BMW. Better gearing and rwd is partially responsible even w less power.
Trap speed yes, but e63 can to 11.5 while M5 is more 12.0. Four wheel drive is always gonna be faster in the quarter on a car like that.
The difference in 1/4 mile time means nothing unless your plan is to launch light to light.
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      04-07-2014, 10:44 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
An e63 does not walk away from the m5, the recent motortrend article actually gave a 1 mph advantage to the BMW. Better gearing and rwd is partially responsible even w less power.
Trust me, below 70 mph it is no contest. You can quote magazines until the cows come home but the fact is that you can apply full throttle at any point in first or second on the E63 and it goes really hard whereas on the M5, the traction control light starts flashing and power is cut, or you get wheelspin.

I'm talking from personal experience, not from reading magazines.
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      04-07-2014, 11:14 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catpat8000 View Post
Trust me, below 70 mph it is no contest. You can quote magazines until the cows come home but the fact is that you can apply full throttle at any point in first or second on the E63 and it goes really hard whereas on the M5, the traction control light starts flashing and power is cut, or you get wheelspin.

I'm talking from personal experience, not from reading magazines.
Agreed, only because of AWD not because it's more powerful. See below. Go to 12:00 min mark. Yes, it's a GC, M5 is very similar in straight line.
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      04-07-2014, 11:24 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catpat8000 View Post
Trust me, below 70 mph it is no contest. You can quote magazines until the cows come home but the fact is that you can apply full throttle at any point in first or second on the E63 and it goes really hard whereas on the M5, the traction control light starts flashing and power is cut, or you get wheelspin.

I'm talking from personal experience, not from reading magazines.
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Originally Posted by elitex View Post
Agreed, only because of AWD not because it's more powerful.
I don't think I ever mentioned anything about power. I have noticed, especially on the M5 board, that they seem obsessed with having more power than the E63. I don't know whether it does or not, I just know that one feels way faster than the other in first and second gear. And yes, that is exactly because of AWD.
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      04-07-2014, 11:29 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by catpat8000 View Post
I don't think I ever mentioned anything about power. I have noticed, especially on the M5 board, that they seem obsessed with having more power than the E63. I don't know whether it does or not, I just know that one feels way faster than the other in first and second gear. And yes, that is exactly because of AWD.
Let's not deny the facts, Off course we are, that's why we bought high powered cars.

AWD cars suck IMO. AMG offered AWD to compete with Audi RS on paper. Unfortunately, BMW may end up following them. Rear wheel drive is the way to go.
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      04-07-2014, 11:30 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elitex View Post
Agreed, only because of AWD not because it's more powerful. See below. Go to 12:00 min mark. Yes, it's a GC, M5 is very similar in straight line.
You are aware that the E63 tested in that video is a 2wd version, correct? Not the AWD version we get here in the US.

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      04-07-2014, 11:32 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by catpat8000 View Post
You are aware that the E63 tested in that video is a 2wd version, correct? Not the AWD version we get here in the US.

Pat
That's what I said, all things being equal, M5 is a faster car. M5 would win in a roll race IMO.
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      04-07-2014, 11:33 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elitex View Post
Let's not deny the facts, Off course we are, that's why we bought high powered cars.

AWD cars suck IMO. AMG offered AWD to compete with Audi RS on paper. Unfortunately, BMW may end up following them. Rear wheel drive is the way to go.
I don't agree with you. I think the E63 AWD is very well done and in addition, you get to use the power that you paid so much money for.

Have you actually driven the E63?
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      04-07-2014, 11:35 AM   #13
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I don't agree with you. I think the E63 AWD is very well done and in addition, you get to use the power that you paid so much money for.

Have you actually driven the E63?
Yes, and Audi quattro BS. They are great for everyday driving, but I don't like them in corners. I actually like my tail sliding all over the place, it may not be the fastest way to do things but it's definitely fun.
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      04-07-2014, 11:36 AM   #14
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Yes, and Audi quattro BS. They are great for everyday driving, but I don't like them in corners. I actually like my tail sliding all over the place, it may not be the fastest way to do things but it's definitely fun.
Then you have the right car.
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      04-07-2014, 11:39 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elitex
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Originally Posted by catpat8000 View Post
I don't think I ever mentioned anything about power. I have noticed, especially on the M5 board, that they seem obsessed with having more power than the E63. I don't know whether it does or not, I just know that one feels way faster than the other in first and second gear. And yes, that is exactly because of AWD.
Let's not deny the facts, Off course we are, that's why we bought high powered cars.

AWD cars suck IMO. AMG offered AWD to compete with Audi RS on paper. Unfortunately, BMW may end up following them. Rear wheel drive is the way to go.
Yeah but for the purpose M5 serves AWD seem a better fit. It's not a supercar or something I would take to the track. More of a luxury hot rod. I don't see any advantage in a M5 being RWD
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      04-07-2014, 11:41 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonymiabmw View Post
Yeah but for the purpose M5 serves AWD seem a better fit. It's not a supercar or something I would take to the track. More of a luxury hot rod. I don't see any advantage in a M5 being RWD
I agree with this, though would be best to have both options for the M5. To make note though, one advantage for 2WD is fuel economy for what it's worth.
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      04-07-2014, 12:09 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Tonymiabmw View Post
Yeah but for the purpose M5 serves AWD seem a better fit. It's not a supercar or something I would take to the track. More of a luxury hot rod. I don't see any advantage in a M5 being RWD
Weight is the biggest advantage of RWD vs AWD
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      04-07-2014, 12:13 PM   #18
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Yeah but for the purpose M5 serves AWD seem a better fit. It's not a supercar or something I would take to the track. More of a luxury hot rod. I don't see any advantage in a M5 being RWD
I guess we'll agree to disagree.
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      04-07-2014, 02:21 PM   #19
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It blows my mind that anyone in a climate other than Canada's is even considering AWD! The numbers in dry acceleration don't really matter because A) you're not michael schumacher and B) launching AWD is reaalllyy bad for the transmission.

You sacrifice a TON of driving feel and potentially a ton of fun by going to AWD.
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      04-07-2014, 02:28 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elitex
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Originally Posted by Tonymiabmw View Post
Yeah but for the purpose M5 serves AWD seem a better fit. It's not a supercar or something I would take to the track. More of a luxury hot rod. I don't see any advantage in a M5 being RWD
I guess we'll agree to disagree.
Well the next M5 will obviously have more power at some point you can't put all that power in ground with a 5 series chasis.
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      04-07-2014, 02:41 PM   #21
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Quote:
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It blows my mind that anyone in a climate other than Canada's is even considering AWD! The numbers in dry acceleration don't really matter because A) you're not michael schumacher and B) launching AWD is reaalllyy bad for the transmission.

You sacrifice a TON of driving feel and potentially a ton of fun by going to AWD.
Haha us folks in the Midwest/Great Lakes region of the U.S. see plenty of snow. And our roads tend not to be as well-plowed as those found in your neck of the woods.

My local BMW and Mercedes dealers order virtually every 3-Series and C-Class with xDrive or 4MATIC. And they sell.

The vast majority of customers don't just want AWD; they demand it.
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      04-07-2014, 02:55 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ybbiz34
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Originally Posted by stefan View Post
It blows my mind that anyone in a climate other than Canada's is even considering AWD! The numbers in dry acceleration don't really matter because A) you're not michael schumacher and B) launching AWD is reaalllyy bad for the transmission.

You sacrifice a TON of driving feel and potentially a ton of fun by going to AWD.
Haha us folks in the Midwest/Great Lakes region of the U.S. see plenty of snow. And our roads tend not to be as well-plowed as those found in your neck of the woods.

My local BMW and Mercedes dealers order virtually every 3-Series and C-Class with xDrive or 4MATIC. And they sell.

The vast majority of customers don't just want AWD; they demand it.
I would just buy a cheap truck for the winter and keep a sports car . That's what I did in the Midwest when I lived there. Could never justify driving a nice car in salt and gravel. I'll never have to worry about that again in South Florida.
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