[BXL4]

Can anyone recommend a type of chains or similar for the F30 (square set up)?

Here in Seattle area, it just isn't cold enough/snowy enough, often enough to justify winter tires but Saturday night we had 6" and I really needed to get into town and back.

Now, of course, it is 45 degrees and rainy, without a hint of snow left.

I've researched here without seeing anything concrete. Suggestions please.

[HapkidoNinja]

First off, what wheels/tires do you have on?

I am waiting for my vehicle with 19" 403M rims and summer performance tires to arrive. I am likely going to buy a set of staggered 18" rims with Michelin PSS (snow rated allseasons). Honestly, if the PSS can't handle the snow then given all the idiots I saw on the road this Saturday night you don't want to be out there with your BMW anyway.

Other options are:
Blizzaks. For our area, the Blizzaks or the quivalent are overkill given that the temp rarely dips below 40.
Chains. I wouldn't put chains on since we rarely get snow deep enough to need it (I used chains on my Ford in Boston).
Cables. I do have Z cables for my current Explorer and my wife's MDX.
Spikes-spiders(dot)com. These are actually kind of neat. My neighbor has them to go up to Whistler. When installed on the wheel the traction portion quickly clips on and they work really nicely.

[BXL4]

To answer your question directly, I don't yet have my F30. I'll be doing an ED this summer. Our recent snow (I'm on Bainbridge) made me realize that I need a solution and I don't think that it is a second set of wheels and tires. If I could find a good traction enhancer (spikes-spiders?) then I'll just go with a set of all-seasons and keep the traction devices for the odd snow storm. I got by because I have an old M-B ML320 with M+S tires that just worked well enough Saturday night. I do have z-chains for it and my other car but when the F30 gets here, the old M-B will go away.

Thanks for your reply.

[Dippydo]

Suck it up man. I am rolling on the stock runflats in Minnesota in a RWD I might add without a problem. If I was in Seattle, I would have never took my 20s off with summer tires for once in a while snow.

[HapkidoNinja]

Originally Posted by Dippydo

Suck it up man. I am rolling on the stock runflats in Minnesota in a RWD I might add without a problem. If I was in Seattle, I would have never took my 20s off with summer tires for once in a while snow.

Dippydo, you forget that the problem here is that nobody salts or sands the roads and most folks are on summer tires. Generally what happens is that they ice up quickly and at that point the vehicles get abandoned by the side of the road.

Moving here from Boston I sold my snowblower since having a clean driveway when the street is blocked and the hill unpassable made little sense.

[Dippydo]

Originally Posted by HapkidoNinja

Dippydo, you forget that the problem here is that nobody salts or sands the roads and most folks are on summer tires. Generally what happens is that they ice up quickly and at that point the vehicles get abandoned by the side of the road.

Moving here from Boston I sold my snowblower since having a clean driveway when the street is blocked and the hill unpassable made little sense.

OK fair enough...LOL...Griiots Garage sells them. Really nice ones that are made for performance cars like Porsche, etc etc...

**Nevermind. Looks like they sold out of them after looking for the link for you.

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by BXL4

Can anyone recommend a type of chains or similar for the F30 (square set up)?

Here in Seattle area, ....

I've researched here without seeing anything concrete. Suggestions please.

Originally Posted by HapkidoNinja

...
Cables. I do have Z cables for my current Explorer and my wife's MDX.

Z-cables, at most tire retailers, and Autozone & O'Reilly's. They usually fit unless you have sport package (and definitely not if you lower your car.) Costco might also have them.

Also, AutoSock was recently approved by WSDOT as a "chain". I personally wouldn't use it, but my needs wrt winter traction are extreme.

[n55x3]

With the limited snow you see I'd think a set of all seasons is all you need.

I swapped my summer rubber for a set of ultra high performance all season Michellin Pilot Sport A/S 3 and they have been pretty good. We've had snow pretty much solid since December and these tires have been manageable. But in a climate that sees little snow, just cold temps these tires would be absolutely phenomenal. They give up almost nothing compared to the summer rubber in the performance category.

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by n55x3

With the limited snow you see I'd think a set of all seasons is all you need.

This is absolutely not the case in Seattle. We have hills. We have snow near 32 degrees, which is really slippery. We have sometimes deep snow - remember we do get lots of precipitation - where no-seasons are useless. We have mountain passes, where we talk about snowfall in feet not inches. We have poor ability to clear roads after snowfall - not economically justifiable except for the passes.

All-season tires suck. I was unable to get into the upper parking lot at a ski area because an Audi Quattro A4 and a Jeep Grand Cherokee on no-seasons were blocking it.

[HapkidoNinja]

Originally Posted by floydarogers

This is absolutely not the case in Seattle. We have hills. We have snow near 32 degrees, which is really slippery. We have sometimes deep snow - remember we do get lots of precipitation - where no-seasons are useless. We have mountain passes, where we talk about snowfall in feet not inches. We have poor ability to clear roads after snowfall - not economically justifiable except for the passes.

All-season tires suck. I was unable to get into the upper parking lot at a ski area because an Audi Quattro A4 and a Jeep Grand Cherokee on no-seasons were blocking it.

If you are a frequent visitor to Snoqualmie or Stevens pass for skiing, then you are absolutely right, and you should go with Blizzaks.
I made the tradeoff that for the 2-3 days on the eastside where I plan on avoiding the summer tire snow crowd, given that 95% of the winter is just rain, Michelin PSS tires would be fine for my daily driver. For the deeper snow (or going skiing at the passes) I take my 4x4 Explorer with Goodyear Fortera Triple Treds, and Z Cables in the back which I have yet to need.

[BXL4]

Well, this has been a livelier exchange that I expected. I do get the idea that another vehicle with cables is the optimal solution but one that, for me, goes away with the delivery of the F30. As my fellow Washingtonian pointed out, we do have hills and we don't much like salting or sanding the roads. I have considered buying a second set of wheels (maybe with low tread tires) just to put cables on and keep in the garage until it is snow time so I can jack up the F30 to put them on.

A better solution I think would be to find a traction device that can be applied to the wheels while they are on the car without a jack. On my 10 mile drive Saturday night, there were 40 cars on the side of the road/in the ditch. This isn't Seattle, I live on an island. This is an infrequent but big @ss deal when it happens.

So, the easy to install (on an unlowered Sportline F30) traction device would be…..?

[n55x3]

Originally Posted by floydarogers

This is absolutely not the case in Seattle. We have hills. We have snow near 32 degrees, which is really slippery. We have sometimes deep snow - remember we do get lots of precipitation - where no-seasons are useless. We have mountain passes, where we talk about snowfall in feet not inches. We have poor ability to clear roads after snowfall - not economically justifiable except for the passes.

All-season tires suck. I was unable to get into the upper parking lot at a ski area because an Audi Quattro A4 and a Jeep Grand Cherokee on no-seasons were blocking it.

I gotta agree with hapkidoninja, everything he is saying sounds pretty accurate. Makes sense to have a dedicated snow tire then as it sounds like you are driving in snow all winter. If you are seeing that amount of constant snow an All Season won't cut it. I'd think a traction aid would only be used for emergencies and not something you'd want to keep on for weeks or months at a time.

[HapkidoNinja]

Originally Posted by BXL4

A better solution I think would be to find a traction device that can be applied to the wheels while they are on the car without a jack. On my 10 mile drive Saturday night, there were 40 cars on the side of the road/in the ditch. This isn't Seattle, I live on an island. This is an infrequent but big @ss deal when it happens.

So, the easy to install (on an unlowered Sportline F30) traction device would be…..?

Z cables take only minutes but I don't know if you have the clearance. Check out the Spider Spikes I mentioned earlier, they snap on in seconds.

[BXL4]

I've just looked at the Spider Spikes website and they do look easy. I have Z cables for my other vehicles but even on my SUV there is little spare clearance to get them latched up on the back side of the tires.

Thanks for your inputs.

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by n55x3

I gotta agree with hapkidoninja, everything he is saying sounds pretty accurate. Makes sense to have a dedicated snow tire then as it sounds like you are driving in snow all winter. If you are seeing that amount of constant snow an All Season won't cut it. I'd think a traction aid would only be used for emergencies and not something you'd want to keep on for weeks or months at a time.

I see that my comment about the ski area weakened my presentation of why no-season tires aren't good enough IN THE METROPOLITAN AREA.

Yeah, I go up to the mts a lot, but that's not really the defining reason to have snows. I guarantee you that I wouldn't be able to get up the county roads and driveway to my house without snows. Next time it snows, check out the cars that aren't able to get up the roads (Pine Lake, SPAR, etc) to the Sammamish Plateau. Or up Talus Drive in Issaquah, Cemetary Road (N. 3rd) in Renton, etc. or most of the other roads with hills. You're gonna have to put on chains/cables/etc if you want to get up those places, because the no-seasons just don't cut it. And we haven't even talked about going down hills.

[HapkidoNinja]

Originally Posted by floydarogers

Next time it snows, check out the cars that aren't able to get up the roads (Pine Lake, SPAR, etc) to the Sammamish Plateau. Or up Talus Drive in Issaquah, Cemetary Road (N. 3rd) in Renton, etc. or most of the other roads with hills. You're gonna have to put on chains/cables/etc if you want to get up those places, because the no-seasons just don't cut it. And we haven't even talked about going down hills.

I actually think your comment was spot on. There is no argument that heavy snow tires will allow for superior control and contact with the road. Tire Rack agrees: Our initial answer remains the same: dedicated Winter / Snow tires will outperform all-season tires almost every single time, and we highly recommend that you invest in a set for your vehicle. But if only one set of tires is in your vehicle's future, then all-season tires will give you an edge over anything else during those inclement months.

So, for the days without snow there is no question that snow tires will not perform on par with A/S tires. Given that WA is not WI, in our area it is possible to get by with "Snowflake" rated All Season tires most times. If someone is going down that track they would do well to consider a set of Continental ExtremeContact DWS.

And yes, I live on a tall steep hill and yes, I made it up in an MDX with Michelin PSS A/S, passing vehicles stuck along the road. Knowing how to drive on the stuff is as important as having the right tire.