[myfirstbmw335i]

If I am reading this correctly, it is telling dealers they MUST use the latest diagostics and Progman Software as there are known issues that the old diagnostics will not detect. Talks about PUMA cases not being addressed because they are coming from old diagnostics etc and etc....

I will definitely be showing this to my service advisor and letting BMWNA know that I know about it....

found this on the knightsoftheroundel.com
their forum has a segment dedicated to PROGMAN....

BMW HQ not too impressed with USA dealer service - duh
by cobradav on Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:14 pm

I just pulled down this SIB. Another example of general service topic.

Since we are few in number on this board and most of us understand the axiom "if it ain't broke don't fix it" I find that many other boards are filled with member scomplaining of things that do not work, problems that go undiagnosed properly and many trips back to the dealer for the same thing (example - cobradav on 2 and 11 October for the SAME DAMN THING)

So armed with this lead in, read on my friends and see if you recognize you and your service department. It is, BTW, what I have tried to pass on to many (not here necessarily) about why when something does not work or you hear of a new PROGMAN release do not "assume" you have found a "silver bullet" to fix something that does not work on your car yet few, if any, other owners share the same problem. It is a symptom of what this SIB is stating in pretty clear terms. Some may care to arm themselves with this SIB for their next trip in for a problem.

SI B 07 10 07
Workshop Environment Systems October 2007
Technical Service

SUBJECT
Importance of Using the Most Current Diagnostic / Programming Software

MODEL
All

SITUATION
A worldwide review indicates that the US market has one of the highest rates of using old (outdated) diagnostic and programming software. This may lead to outdated repair methods, diagnostic steps and programming procedures to be performed, which may result in improper repairs and/or additional repair time.

CORRECTION
Please check now to confirm that all of your diagnostic and programming machines have the latest software installed.
NOTE: A picture is here in the SIB

For reference at any given time, the latest available software can be found by clicking on "SW Versions Chart" under the Service Information section of the TIS website.

It is equally important that you review your established process to ensure that updates will be loaded in the future in a timely manner.

INFORMATION
Diagnosis:

Using an old version places technicians at a disadvantage by compromising their ability to accurately diagnose and correct a customer complaint, can result in inappropriate repair costs, lowers your opportunity to repair the vehicle right the first time and contributes to customer dissatisfaction.

Technicians also become frustrated in the belief that they did all that they could to find a cause and correction when, had the latest DIS version been used, diagnostic assistance may have been available.

For example, as of October 2007, we see that current production vehicles are being diagnosed using a 2005 version such as DIS V44.0, even though we are now at DIS V51.0. It is not possible that this older diagnostic software would have the appropriate information for a recently produced vehicle.

New releases are published four times per year. Each new release has new test modules and extensive improvements to existing test modules.

Please provide us with diagnostic feedback if you are aware of any problem with the current diagnostic software, including such situations as a test plan not available now that was available with a previous version, a test plan that does not function properly, or any other test plan complaint. This can be done easily - refer to SI B07 07 06 (Diagnosis Feedback) or send an e-mail with complete details to Diagnose.Feedback@bmw.com.

You can understand why we may not answer a PuMA case if the latest software is not used.

Programming:

Programming with an old version risks additional service visits and customer dissatisfaction. There will also be unnecessary repair costs if a control module is needlessly shown in need of replacement because the part number is not recognized.

Similar to diagnosis, many vehicles are being programmed with outdated software. As of October 2007, we see vehicles being programmed with Progman V25.2 instead of the current version Progman V27.1.

There are four main Progman releases per year, with supplementary releases in between. Each new release contains fixes for known problems in existing vehicles and new data for the latest production vehicles.

In cases where programming consistently fails when using the latest Progman version, please submit a PuMA case with complete details.

WARRANTY INFORMATION
We are not fulfilling our obligation to our customers and technicians if the latest diagnostic and programming software levels are not being used.

The use of outdated diagnostic and programming software will be challenged going forward and may result in the denial of warranty repairs.

Please assist us by verifying the installation of the most current software in your workshop so that such denials will not be necessary.

[adrian1480]

Interesting.

I went to get the latest Progman from my dealership and they didn't have it...and even if they did, they'd charge me for putting it on my car.

Grrr...

[myfirstbmw335i]

Originally Posted by adrian1480

Interesting.

I went to get the latest Progman from my dealership and they didn't have it...and even if they did, they'd charge me for putting it on my car.

Grrr...

According to this bulletin, all dealers in US get 4 updates each year. That's the problem, lot's of dealers are telling customers they don't have the latest software because they don't want to mess with it.
They can't charge us for it when it is a case of problems covered by warranty that would be correctly with the latest software.
I have a copy of what each Progman update corrects over the previous issue as well. It clearly shows 4 of my problems....
In another post I explain that my dealer actually told me to my face that my car has v27.02.01 when it clearly doesn't.
Like the bulletin states, if the dealers are using outdated diagnostic software then it won't tell them the car has a problem that the new software will....

We all need to arm ourselves with knowledge and then FIRMLY and POLITELY demand what's right....

Don't accept what your dealer tells you. Show them this bulletin and then they can't deny it....
These problems are not limited to the 3 series...This bulletin was released for ALL BMW models....

I have PDF of this bulletin if you want a copy...

[cobradac]

Originally Posted by myfirstbmw335i

According to this bulletin, all dealers in US get 4 updates each year. That's the problem, lot's of dealers are telling customers they don't have the latest software because they don't want to mess with it.
They can't charge us for it when it is a case of problems covered by warranty that would be correctly with the latest software.
I have a copy of what each Progman update corrects over the previous issue as well. It clearly shows 4 of my problems....
In another post I explain that my dealer actually told me to my face that my car has v27.02.01 when it clearly doesn't.
Like the bulletin states, if the dealers are using outdated diagnostic software then it won't tell them the car has a problem that the new software will....

We all need to arm ourselves with knowledge and then FIRMLY and POLITELY demand what's right....

Don't accept what your dealer tells you. Show them this bulletin and then they can't deny it....
These problems are not limited to the 3 series...This bulletin was released for ALL BMW models....

I have PDF of this bulletin if you want a copy...

Thanks for coming over to our site to help your e90 buds. Glad you did it.

BTW, the four updates they refer to are the "diagnostic" (DIS) software updates. The vehicle (PROGMAN) is really as required and has varied from 3 to 5 major releases (via DVD) per year, BUT with as many as 5 to 6 "online" updates to the major release (xx.00.01, xx.01.00, xx.01.01, xx.02.00, etc) These may actually turn out to be just as significant if they fix something they broke in an earlier release. Having the latest daignostic is as important as having the latest PROGMAN. On average, there are approximately 90 feedbacks from BMW technicians that go into making corrections to the next diagnostic upgrade. Things they found did not work, of features that could not even be tested, etc. The next diagnostic release usually fixes these and other issues the factory sees as well.

[adrian1480]

Originally Posted by myfirstbmw335i

According to this bulletin, all dealers in US get 4 updates each year. That's the problem, lot's of dealers are telling customers they don't have the latest software because they don't want to mess with it.
They can't charge us for it when it is a case of problems covered by warranty that would be correctly with the latest software.
I have a copy of what each Progman update corrects over the previous issue as well. It clearly shows 4 of my problems....
In another post I explain that my dealer actually told me to my face that my car has v27.02.01 when it clearly doesn't.
Like the bulletin states, if the dealers are using outdated diagnostic software then it won't tell them the car has a problem that the new software will....

We all need to arm ourselves with knowledge and then FIRMLY and POLITELY demand what's right....

Don't accept what your dealer tells you. Show them this bulletin and then they can't deny it....
These problems are not limited to the 3 series...This bulletin was released for ALL BMW models....

I have PDF of this bulletin if you want a copy...

Well I am now aware of the "script" to tell dealers in order to make them update my Progman (something about the iPod switching to the radio randomly).

My thing was this: I went in and simply asked for the update. The first 4 people I talked to didn't even know what Progman was (keep in mind, this is the largest BMW dealership in America I'm at). Then I got into an argument with the 3rd chick because I showed her this site and she was like, "they post anything on those sites...look...they didn't even spell the nick-name right...lol what is a 'Bimmer'...lol" WTF. We all know it's spelled with an "i"...but she wanted to go on about it being a "Bemmer" Finally got to a guy in the shop and he was like, "...yea...I'd be like $500 because of the labor...it's not worth it bro...we don't do software updates unless there's something WRONG."

:-/

I'm like, WTF you know? here I am in a damn 335xi, not 3 months old. This is almost a $50,000 car. Why do I have to tell a lie just to get something that should come for free?! Why wouldn't BMW want their consumers to have the best possible experience with their product if they are in the position to make the product better by software update?

Seems like the choice is obvious. I can and will lie if necessary...but it's the principle of the thing, you know? Maybe it's because I'm a computer engineer.

[Dascamel]

Unfortunately some dealerships are LAZY and will still sell cars regardless of service record. In my case, I know BMW of Santa Monica has had a bad service reputation among my friends but others in the area bend over backwards to help you... So far the Bakersfield dealership has been good.

[adrian1480]

I'll go in with some lame excuse on Monday and get the update.

[myfirstbmw335i]

Originally Posted by adrian1480

Well I am now aware of the "script" to tell dealers in order to make them update my Progman (something about the iPod switching to the radio randomly).

My thing was this: I went in and simply asked for the update. The first 4 people I talked to didn't even know what Progman was (keep in mind, this is the largest BMW dealership in America I'm at). Then I got into an argument with the 3rd chick because I showed her this site and she was like, "they post anything on those sites...look...they didn't even spell the nick-name right...lol what is a 'Bimmer'...lol" WTF. We all know it's spelled with an "i"...but she wanted to go on about it being a "Bemmer" Finally got to a guy in the shop and he was like, "...yea...I'd be like $500 because of the labor...it's not worth it bro...we don't do software updates unless there's something WRONG."

:-/

I'm like, WTF you know? here I am in a damn 335xi, not 3 months old. This is almost a $50,000 car. Why do I have to tell a lie just to get something that should come for free?! Why wouldn't BMW want their consumers to have the best possible experience with their product if they are in the position to make the product better by software update?

Seems like the choice is obvious. I can and will lie if necessary...but it's the principle of the thing, you know? Maybe it's because I'm a computer engineer.

I agree and according to the SIB so does BMW in Europe, that dealers should be up to date on their technology. However, it seems that the overwhelming majority of car owners, especially with NAV, do have legit problems that should be handled by every dealer....

If you take a copy of the SIB I posted, then those at your dealer can't tell you that we "crazy Bimmer" posters will say anything....

[adrian1480]

Understood. Will do. Will post results.

[fucema]

myfirstbmw335i: Would you mind posting the PDF version of the bulletin? I'd like to carry that with me versus a printout of this forum thread (no offense, seems less official).

Thanks!

[cobradac]

Here you go