[Walesy]

Just looking for a bit of advice.

basically I sold a van to a guy last weekend as I was finished using it, the van was advertised on gumtree, he came with a mechanic, viewed the van...made me an offer and I accepted £925. I provided a receipt with both details on and also stated 'No warranty of guarantee offered' as I am not a dealer etc. it was a private sale. He also signed this document, we both have copies.
The mechanic guy asked about the cam belt, I told him that as far as I was aware it was done at 80k miles prior to me buying it and it was one of the factors I took into consideration when I bought the van just under 2 years ago, which was genuine information I am as honest as hell with these things.

Now, the van had circa 88k miles on it when I bought it, when I sold it it had approx. 89k miles, so I have not used it for anything else other than running to the tip, builders yard etc when I was doing my garden last year and the year before.

The guy called me last Wednesday asking for some money back as the cam belt has snapped and ruined the engine, to the sum of £300 which I refused as I have had no evidence that this has happened apart from a call 4 days after the purchase, two stories aswell..claims that he mate started it up in his garage and that's when it snapped but his mate initial call stated that he towed it to his garage after it broke down.

Now he claims he has legal grounds that he can take me to small claims, I told him it was sold as seen and I passed on as much info about the van and was upfront with the faults etc. that it had, he inspected it prior to handing over the cash....I told him he had no real grounds and to go ahead, plus CAB say I am in the strongest position and that Trading Standards will not likely take this on board since it was a private sale.

has anyone got any experience with this sorta thing or able to advise?

From what I have read it is a 'buyer beware' situation and there are very little rights as a private buyer.

[NISFAN]

I am not a legal bod, but I don't think you have anything to worry about.

A brand new cam belt can snap. He would have to prove you were dishonest in the description, and as you aren't claiming you changed the cam belt, it would not be your problem.

[Walesy]

just for info, I genuinely believe the cam belt was done prior to me purchasing the van as it the signs of works being done i.e the bolts look to be disturbed, the engine mount and bolts look to have been removed at some point which is required for access. But from talking to my mechanic mates they say that a cam belt can fail at any time. Maybe the water pump, maybe the tensioner that's failed etc.

[Walesy]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

I am not a legal bod, but I don't think you have anything to worry about.

A brand new cam belt can snap. He would have to prove you were dishonest in the description, and as you aren't claiming you changed the cam belt, it would not be your problem.

yeah this is the general feeling I am getting mate and consistent advice from others plus one guy I know who buys and sells, I never advertised this on the ad either I just passed on the info.

[Walesy]

Plus the MOT's back up the mileage etc. from my ownership.

[MarkG_M5Comp]

I am not legal in any way however in the training I have received it has been made clear that under UK Common Law parties can enter into a contract on the terms they choose. I.e. you entered into a contract with 'NO warranty or guarantee' which the buyer accepted by paying you (the exchange of goods for money make this a binding contract).

Our law is indeed based on 'Buyer Beware' unless a corporation is involved, which it is not. I see no grounds on which you should be exposed.

It will be an uncomfortable period for sure as the buyer will try everything. He bought a van for £900 - what was the expectation.

The only thing I could imaging you MAY like to consider is a 'without prejudice' offer towards the cost of repair (i.e. £150 max to cover half). I say without prejudice as this ensures you are not admitting anything or taking any action as such. If making this offer I would insist the vehicle is first inspected by an independent garage at their cost.

The one with egg on their face here is the guy's mechanic friend, clearly not a good one as I think I could spot a cam belt that was a week away from snapping!!

[Walesy]

Originally Posted by MarkG335

I am not legal in any way however in the training I have received it has been made clear that under UK Common Law parties can enter into a contract on the terms they choose. I.e. you entered into a contract with 'NO warranty or guarantee' which the buyer accepted by paying you (the exchange of goods for money make this a binding contract).

Our law is indeed based on 'Buyer Beware' unless a corporation is involved, which it is not. I see no grounds on which you should be exposed.

It will be an uncomfortable period for sure as the buyer will try everything. He bought a van for £900 - what was the expectation.

The only thing I could imaging you MAY like to consider is a 'without prejudice' offer towards the cost of repair (i.e. £150 max to cover half). I say without prejudice as this ensures you are not admitting anything or taking any action as such. If making this offer I would insist the vehicle is first inspected by an independent garage at their cost.

The one with egg on their face here is the guy's mechanise friend, clearly not a good one as I think I could spot a cam belt that was a week away from snapping!!

I purposely never offered any monies as that is bordering on admitting liability as you say. It was a cheap van...plus as stated a cam belt failure cannot be predicted in anyway, there maybe signs as you say, there may not be. As NISFAN states, new belts can fail after a short period never mind one that is at least 9k miles (I know it is not a lot) and over 2 years away from when changed.

[MarkG_M5Comp]

Originally Posted by Walesy

I purposely never offered any monies as that is bordering on admitting liability as you say. It was a cheap van...plus as stated a cam belt failure cannot be predicted in anyway, there maybe signs as you say, there may not be. As NISFAN states, new belts can fail after a short period never mind one that is at least 9k miles (I know it is not a lot) and over 2 years away from when changed.

Absolutely, its just one to have in your back pocket in case the guy becomes an annoyance.

[Walesy]

Originally Posted by MarkG335

Absolutely, its just one to have in your back pocket in case the guy becomes an annoyance.

He hit me with his Missus studies Law etc. and has done his homework etc. I told him to proceed with a claim via small claims court as I don't think the grounds of what happen stick to me in any way. I do feel for the guy but he has not offered any evidence nor have I requested it to be honest. But would he give me £300 to sort it out if the shoe was on the other foot?

[Walesy]

Thanks all for the advice, much appreciated and reassuring that I am right with what I say.

[teaston]

He has no chance of winning anything against you, it is a private sale! There is no come back on a private sale and that is the end of it!

Plus anyway his mechanic looked at it, how can he possibly think that you (not a mechanic i guess) would be able to detect any defects better than a mechanic!

If he continues to harass you then report him to the police for harassment!

[teaston]

Plus the van was £900, the whole reason old vehicles are cheap is because they require constant maintenance and repairs! He got exactly what he paid for!

Also, even if it was possible to have come back on a private sale, how could he ever prove that the cambelt was the one you supplied the van with!? Impossible!

[Willisthm]

In simple legal terms the phrase 'let the buyer beware' applies.

The fact that it was a private sale and all reasonable efforts were undertaken by the buyer then you are in the clear.

Nothing to worry about. You are in the clear.

[Tengocity]

Agreed, absolutely nothing to worry about here than the hassle of the guy contacting you. Sold as seen means that, and the fact he had a mechanic mate inspect it prior to buying doesn't help him.

Out of interest I would have thought that if a cambelt had gone it would have caused a lot more than £300 of damage? I thought partial engine rebuilds were in order...

The only issue you have is if you stated something untrue within the advert or answered a question untruthfully. That's not the same as not disclosing everything, which is just not possible!

[Walesy]

Thanks again guys, no I am not a mechanic, I know my way around an engine but I gave up getting dirty years and years ago. Not worth the hassle.
Anyways, just as I thought and the cambelt being the same one..good point to be honest...he could have changed it anyways and it snapped. So I never thought of that one.

I am bordering on contacting the police to be honest as I am pissed off being contacted about it and got other stuff on my mind.

Me and a mate had a look online and you can get a whole engine for £125 ish for it and it is nothing fancy just a 1.5 dci engine, he is telling me £600 to repair and wants me to foot half the bill at £300...which is not going to happen.

I did not state in the ad about the cam belt at all, he asked a question and I told him what I knew of and believed to be true which was prior to my ownership and one of the factors I took into consideration when I bought the van. I did not claim I did the work either as I would have kept a receipt for my records and future owners.

Just an unfortunate thing to happen and I do feel for him.

[Walesy]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

Agreed, absolutely nothing to worry about here than the hassle of the guy contacting you. Sold as seen means that, and the fact he had a mechanic mate inspect it prior to buying doesn't help him.

Out of interest I would have thought that if a cambelt had gone it would have caused a lot more than £300 of damage? I thought partial engine rebuilds were in order...

The only issue you have is if you stated something untrue within the advert or answered a question untruthfully. That's not the same as not disclosing everything, which is just not possible!

The thing is, I stated something which I believed to have been true and may well still be true, but again a cam belt even new can go at any time.

[teaston]

Originally Posted by Walesy

Thanks again guys, no I am not a mechanic, I know my way around an engine but I gave up getting dirty years and years ago. Not worth the hassle.
Anyways, just as I thought and the cambelt being the same one..good point to be honest...he could have changed it anyways and it snapped. So I never thought of that one.

I am bordering on contacting the police to be honest as I am pissed off being contacted about it and got other stuff on my mind.

Me and a mate had a look online and you can get a whole engine for £125 ish for it and it is nothing fancy just a 1.5 dci engine, he is telling me £600 to repair and wants me to foot half the bill at £300...which is not going to happen.

I did not state in the ad about the cam belt at all, he asked a question and I told him what I knew of and believed to be true which was prior to my ownership and one of the factors I took into consideration when I bought the van. I did not claim I did the work either as I would have kept a receipt for my records and future owners.

Just an unfortunate thing to happen and I do feel for him.

TBH i wouldn't even feel for him, sounds harsh but, if you buy a van/car for so little you should be factoring in repair costs into you budget! With this plus a few more repairs over say the next 3 years the van is still under £2000, or he could have bought a van for say £8000 and do little to no repairs, he's still £6000 better off!

It really annoys me when people like him expect everything for nothing, and then throw their toys out of the pram when the inevitable happens!

[Walesy]

Originally Posted by teaston

TBH i wouldn't even feel for him, sounds harsh but, if you buy a van/car for so little you should be factoring in repair costs into you budget! With this plus a few more repairs over say the next 3 years the van is still under £2000, or he could have bought a van for say £8000 and do little to no repairs, he's still £6000 better off!

It really annoys me when people like him expect everything for nothing, and then throw their toys out of the pram when the inevitable happens!

Your approach is probably the correct one to be honest mate.

[Hprice1099]

Technically even thought it was a private sale under some circumstances you are liable, but he would have to prove it. Say for example you said the cam belt was changed but you where told by a machinic it needs changing and never did you could be with proof at fault.
Evidence is key, but with your point of view your are fine. Even if he goes to the small claims court

[Firecrest]

Ignor him, say the next time he tries to contact you you'll inform the Police and do so. Don't speak with him, text him, write, he'll get fed up soon enough. He has no come back, he should have gone to a dealer if he wanted some.

[Walesy]

Originally Posted by Hprice1099

Technically even thought it was a private sale under some circumstances you are liable, but he would have to prove it. Say for example you said the cam belt was changed but you where told by a machinic it needs changing and never did you could be with proof at fault.
Evidence is key, but with your point of view your are fine. Even if he goes to the small claims court

TBH..I think he is trying to force me into paying up etc. using scare tactics by threatening. Even Trading standards state he could take me to court but they wont engage in it.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by Walesy

Thanks again guys, no I am not a mechanic, I know my way around an engine but I gave up getting dirty years and years ago. Not worth the hassle.
Anyways, just as I thought and the cambelt being the same one..good point to be honest...he could have changed it anyways and it snapped. So I never thought of that one.

I am bordering on contacting the police to be honest as I am pissed off being contacted about it and got other stuff on my mind.

Me and a mate had a look online and you can get a whole engine for £125 ish for it and it is nothing fancy just a 1.5 dci engine, he is telling me £600 to repair and wants me to foot half the bill at £300...which is not going to happen.

I did not state in the ad about the cam belt at all, he asked a question and I told him what I knew of and believed to be true which was prior to my ownership and one of the factors I took into consideration when I bought the van. I did not claim I did the work either as I would have kept a receipt for my records and future owners.

Just an unfortunate thing to happen and I do feel for him.

Wierd price to fix.....some engines cause no issue when the belt snaps. Just a new belt required.

Others, usually only 16v engines can cause valves to hit pistons. Which means extensive parts and fitting expense (cylinder head off type job).

If he is intending to open the engine up.......£600 is a very cheap fix.....but then it is very expensive for just a new belt type fix.