[DjOli]

Hi everyone,

I have been in and about this forum for a while and I'd like to say hi and how informative, helpful and friendly you all seem to be! Thanks for having me along!

I'm thinking about driving to the alps to go skiing this year. After 3 years of having a Z4 and not really wanting to take it up there, I now have the 330d msport touring. I'm thinking that although its RWD the beast could get me there safely.

I have the route down and know what I require in terms of French law. I'm going to Avoriaz, which is 1800 meters and usually has heavy snow on the road up to the resort.

I don't really want to buy winter tyres or carry a spare set of wheels. I live in Kent and 2 or 3 snow days doesn't really justify spending extra cash. Seeing as I will need snow chains anyway, by law, I want to buy some that won't scuff the alloys - there seem to be a few options with the pricier chains.

Does anyone any experience of doing the trip this way?

Do I REALLY need two sets of chains?

Spare light bulb kit - any suggestions?

Thoughts and comments welcome.

Cheers,

Oli

[Alkidrew]

this is a good piece of info http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice...ow-chains.html

I've driven to Avoriaz a few times in a front wheel drive van with winters on and not needed chains. Avoriaz is high and gets a lot of snow so personally I would go with winters and chains. You'll probably not need the chains which are a pain to put on sometimes (its usually snowing when you have to!)

If you don't want to go down the winter wheel route then you need chains all round or you wont be able to steer properly.

The AA site also tells you what else you need to take with you, I'd strongly recommend the Sanef Toll tag too which I got last year. Makes the tolls super quick and easy.

[Alkidrew]

fuel is the other one, you'll need winter spec diesel which will be available in pumps as you get nearer the alps. If the temp goes down to minus double figures it will be needed.

[DaveA]

I've done the drive up to Flaine from the Autoroute a fair few times. I mention this as Flaine is in (roughly) the same part of the world as Avoriaz..

To satisfy my curiosity about Alpine driving, I flew to Geneva and rented cars to get me up into the resorts..

FWIW, personally, having done these drives a few times now, I wouldn't risk taking my 330d M Sport up to the resorts.

It'd be fine a lot of the time, when daytime temps are ok, the roads dry and clear etc, but then I've seen it a lot when the weather/roads are not good and, frankly, I did it once where I needed to fit chains and that was once enough for me...

I (personally) wouldn't risk it, even with chains and whatnot. You're not just dealing with your own capability and competency, but that of others.. There was a right old mess at the point at which the road became impassible without chains.. lots of vehicles (including busses etc) all in a mess.. Then there's the risk of a huge dump of snow onto the car whilst you are there, and all the messing about that brings..

I'd just say if you go for it, it's an "eyes open" job..

[gtsussex]

Chains are a right royal pain in the backside. You're fine where you're on solid snow (even though you can't go fast and they make a racket) but the reality is they aren't practical to have on all the time. We did one trip to Switzerland in our old E320 estate on standard tyres. Got so fed up with having to put on/take off chains, going up down from village to house, I ended up leaving the car down in long stay underground car park in village for whole time we were there.

Ever since then we've had winters (even on the Disco as they make a HUGE difference over normal M&S Pirellis). If you're not going to do enough trips or don't feel winters are justified with our own weather either, I'd agree. Either hire a car or take the train/plane.

[DjOli]

Thanks for the quick replies guys.

We'd leave the car in the resort which has undercover car parking. I would only need the chains for getting up an down from the resort (in theory).

It's working out nearly 200 quid cheaper than taking a flight, which is why I'm keen on it.

Good shout on the diesel, didn't know about that.

Just wondered whether a) winters were absolutely essential and b) whether I really needed chains on each wheel.

Would I need run flat winters? As I don't have a spare.

Oli

[Tengocity]

I've taken my cars to Alps most of the last few years, and always been in RWD BMW's. The first year I chanced it without winter tyres or chains, but knew the roads were clear to Chamonix, and it was quite late in season. It was also a company car, so was less concerned about the car, and wasn't able to put winter tyres on it.

Other times I've been up to Flaine, Courmayeur, St Gervais-les-bains, over in to Switzerland too. These subsequent trips have always been with winter tyres on, and never had any problems. Having said that, the weather has never been majorly snowy whilst I've been there, so main roads have always been reasonably clear.

As mentioned, the chains are a royal pain in the arse, and really should be a last resort, added on to winter tyres when needed. I would agree that if you don't want to buy a set of winters then just fly/hire.

If this F31 is your car and you plan to keep for 3 years then winter tyres needn't be seen as costing much extra:

You use them for 4 months of the year, so if they last 3 winters, then it should save you a set of summer tyres over same period (assuming average mileage and tyre wear). Buy a spare set of used rims and then flog them in 3 years time. Quality Man maths!

[Alkidrew]

Originally Posted by DjOli

Thanks for the quick replies guys.

We'd leave the car in the resort which has undercover car parking. I would only need the chains for getting up an down from the resort (in theory).

It's working out nearly 200 quid cheaper than taking a flight, which is why I'm keen on it.

Good shout on the diesel, didn't know about that.

Just wondered whether a) winters were absolutely essential and b) whether I really needed chains on each wheel.

Would I need run flat winters? As I don't have a spare.

Oli

For £200, I'd fly. Winters will cost you £800+, that's 4 ski trips! Plus you get there quicker, feeling fresh, don't put on 2000 miles on your car or risk damaging it.

I love driving in France but do it in the Summer!

You don't have to get run-flats but if you don't, you'd need some sealant. Don't fancy the thought of a puncture in the snow trying to sort sealant out though...

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by DjOli

Thanks for the quick replies guys.

We'd leave the car in the resort which has undercover car parking. I would only need the chains for getting up an down from the resort (in theory).

It's working out nearly 200 quid cheaper than taking a flight, which is why I'm keen on it.

Good shout on the diesel, didn't know about that.

Just wondered whether a) winters were absolutely essential and b) whether I really needed chains on each wheel.

Would I need run flat winters? As I don't have a spare.

Oli

You can hire chains. But yes you will need 4 as the fronts need them from steering and braking and rears need them for traction. When in season are you going? Resort roads are kept very clear, so the transfer coaches can get up and down! But later in season you are quite unlikely to have any issues, but this can never been guaranteed of course.

[Rich9600]

I've got Michelin Easygrip composite snow chains in my boot. About £100 a pair, and apparently alpine rated. Never used them in anger, so I can't comment on their effectiveness. They are there for my winter piece of mind. Just something that may be worth a look.

They are basically a tough net bag for your tyre, metal clips where threads cross. One up from a snow sock.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by Alkidrew

For £200, I'd fly. Winters will cost you £800+, that's 4 ski trips!

4 ski trips for £800?! I want to go where you go!

Not sure I can get in to Hemel Ski centre 4 times for that money!

[moonshine]

At least carrying chains is manditory on many alpine cols & resort access roads - even if you don't fit them - After snow fall, the police can (and do stop all vehicles) at the base of hills and leaving the resorts at the top and require them to fit their chains as the last thing they want is for the access road to be blocked by a numpty without proper kit -

Chains are OK to use TBH - but practice fitting them on a dry day at home before you need to use them & fit them early at a chainage area rather than once you grind to a halt - you don't want to be fumbling under the wheels on a steep snowy bit of road, sticking your head and arse into the roadway when cars are tring to get up a hill - (they and I won't brake / slow down for you )

I'd be surprised you would get above 1300m without at least planning to use chains or winter tyres - even if you have winters on, you can still need chains, but the time for them to go on is delayed as the winters are so good on snow.

You can pick up cheap chains at the most supermarkets e.g. the supemarket at Anmasse or Sallanches...

the village we go to (Les Saisies) is up the valley from Megeve at 1600m and we pretty much always need chains from 1300m or above

[Alkidrew]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

4 ski trips for £800?! I want to go where you go!

Not sure I can get in to Hemel Ski centre 4 times for that money!

No, I mean it would cost the OP £200 extra to fly. If he spent £800 on winters then that would be the same as going 4 times to the alps in terms of the difference.

Agreed, £200 is just for the lift pass these days!

[moonshine]

i'd say with winter tyres, one set of chains on the driven wheels is sufficient - not sure on summers - the only cat i've had on Summers was a hire FWD Citroen C3 and we had chains only on the driven Front wheels

I wonder what the recommendation for chains is on the X-drive? rear only or all 4?

[Dave_3]

You should also check your insurance.

For me, in Switzerland it is a requirement to have winter tyres fitted for driving in snowy conditions. You can choose to drive without winters in clement weather during the winter, but any accident will be immediately blamed on you - and all the hassle that that involves to counter any blame if you are not at fault. Driving in clearly snowy conditions with summer tyres will result in a fine.

Your insurance will probably have a clause that it will abide by local legal driving requirements.

As previously mentioned, and like skiing, you may not be at fault and still have an accident due to the fault of someone else. Happens a lot in skiing.

D.

[rjsuk]

I have done the trip a couple of times in my 335i.

On both occasions there was snow on the road at some point of the trip.

The drive through france and the lower part of the alps was great. I would go again.

The camber on the rear wheels meant that my Weissenfels quattro chains didn't work brilliantly. They have the advantage of being easy to fit, didn't damage the alloys, but because the chain stays on the outer 2/3rds of the tyre, the inner edge doesn't get any added grip. Some embarrassing moments spinning rear wheels, on flat ice. In deeper snow they worked well. Chains just on rear. Nothing required on the front.

2nd time I took snow socks. Lots of different brands. Now legal in France and very easy to fit and take off. Cheaper. More effective I thought.

Currently in the alps and my parents have joined us in their 530d and they have socks. No problems.

The easy grips look a step above my socks, so I would go with them.

Have fun.

[NISFAN]

Snow chains?

I prefer these ones......not sure why