Adaptive M Suspension

[F9T]

Does it come with variable steering? Also, would a car without adaptive M suspension have suspension that would equate to the comfort, normal, or sport setting of the adaptive?

[F9T]

Anyone?

[aus]

No one knows. If it is just 3 settings, it's pretty much archaic tech from the 1980's. It should be something like the GM/Ferrari shocks with variable viscosity fluid.

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[E36toF30]

Originally Posted by aus

No one knows. If it is just 3 settings, it's pretty much archaic tech from the 1980's. It should be something like the GM/Ferrari shocks with variable viscosity fluid.

You make it sound like any suspension that doesn't have the magnetic fluid shocks is old fashioned and inferior, which has no basis in fact. There are other modern systems that perform very well, including ones that don't have any kind of variable damping.

[F9T]

I'm not sure either of those responses answer my question, but thanks. Haha.

[E36toF30]

Like aus said, no one outside BMW knows the answers to these questions yet. However, my guess would be that the steering is variable ratio like in the F30 dynamic handling package (meaning it's slower and more precise around center and quicker as you turn the wheel more, resulting in fewer turns lock to lock). On the non dynamic suspension, it will probably be similar to the medium setting on the adaptive, or perhaps a little firmer.

[aus]

Originally Posted by E36toF30

You make it sound like any suspension that doesn't have the magnetic fluid shocks is old fashioned and inferior, which has no basis in fact. There are other modern systems that perform very well, including ones that don't have any kind of variable damping.

Did you miss the 3 setting part?
Personally, I don't care what it comes with, because it's getting changed out to a proper set of coils. I'd be much more interested in a suspension that raises the nose when needed.

As for variable steering... really??? Do we really need that in an //M car??

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[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by infantrytroop22

Does it come with variable steering? Also, would a car without adaptive M suspension have suspension that would equate to the comfort, normal, or sport setting of the adaptive?

I am guessing you do not have EDC on your M3?

EDC is a great option. It allows you to have a comfortable setting for the DD and a more aggressive setting for a romp in the twisties. I run a stock suspension and EDC on Sport (or Normal on bumpy tracks) and it is perfectly suitable for track use even with R compounds.

I always found my E46 M3 do be too stiff for the DD and too soft at the track. EDC on my E92 provides the best of both worlds. So, to answer your question, a car without EDC is a compromised setup and will not equate what EDC can provide, since EDC is dynamically adaptive, the standard shocks will not equate to any of the 3 settings.

The ///M cars do not come with variable ratio steering, but they do come with variable assist.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by E36toF30

Like aus said, no one outside BMW knows the answers to these questions yet. However, my guess would be that the steering is variable ratio like in the F30 dynamic handling package (meaning it's slower and more precise around center and quicker as you turn the wheel more, resulting in fewer turns lock to lock). On the non dynamic suspension, it will probably be similar to the medium setting on the adaptive, or perhaps a little firmer.

Usually ///M cars are not offered with variable ratio steerings, it removes too much steering feel and precision. So I am guessing it will be the same on the F8X. Further it was not mentioned anywhere in the press releases.

As for the suspension, since EDC is dynamic, the standard shocks will not equate any of the 3 settings.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by aus

No one knows. If it is just 3 settings, it's pretty much archaic tech from the 1980's. It should be something like the GM/Ferrari shocks with variable viscosity fluid.

.

On the E9X there are 3 settings, but still dynamically adaptive. 2 adaptive settings on standard cars and all 3 on ZCP.

The damping is adjusted by varying the orifice size inside the shock. This can be done in milliseconds and is a perfectly good alternative to magnetorheological fluid.

[F9T]

Originally Posted by aus

Did you miss the 3 setting part?
Personally, I don't care what it comes with, because it's getting changed out to a proper set of coils. I'd be much more interested in a suspension that raises the nose when needed.

As for variable steering... really??? Do we really need that in an //M car??

.

I saw, but I was asking about non adaptive M and what that feels like. I agree about the steering. I hope it is not variable and I am trying to confirm that's the case.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by infantrytroop22

Does it come with variable steering?

I don't understand the basis for that question. Is the adaptive suspension option (proper, not some group or whatnot) now including the variable steering functionality on other BMW models? If so, I certainly missed that, and I can see the reason for your question. If not though, I would assume "no", since these are distinct features. I sure hope BMW is not doing even more confusing things with option sheet on us for MY 2014 and beyond...

Also, would a car without adaptive M suspension have suspension that would equate to the comfort, normal, or sport setting of the adaptive?

I assume that was a multiple choice question rather than a yes/no thing, right? Pretty ambiguous language, just FYI (friendly critique). Anyway, for the E9x M3 the consensus was that the passive suspension fell roughly at the level of the EDC Sport setting, with some arguing it leaned a bit toward "Normal" and some arguing it tended more toward "Sport Plus". Granted, this was never a perfect comparison anyway due to the non-dynamic nature of the non-EDC suspension, but instead a loose approximation.

By the way do M cars get both Comfort and Normal these days (I see you included both in your question)? I've lost track of the different terms they use now for each level, but I seem to recall the M5/M6 just having Normal, Sport, Sport+, while standard 3/4/5/6 Series cars have Normal/Comfort/Sport, and MSport adding Sport+ or something. Oh hell, I don't know, I am getting too old to remember all of this stuff without Googling. Anyway, I'd expect the M3/M4 to take after the M5/M6 in this regard.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

The ///M cars do not come with variable ratio steering, but they do come with variable assist.

Ah, good point - "variable steering" is also ambiguous isn't it?

You're right - no variable ratio on M cars so far. M3/M4 will be the first with electric steering, but I assume still variable ratio is still not in the offing. As another guy says, it wasn't mentioned in the press material.

About the variable assist steering, I suppose that may even be standard now (perhaps that's already been made clear in official material made available so far - I should go back and read). With the e9x M3 it was not standard but neither was IDrive. Now that we have IDrive by default for easy configuration of all these settings (without peppering the entire console with lost of tiny annoying buttons), most of the adjustable gadgetry *could* be standard.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I always found my E46 M3 do be too stiff for the DD and too soft at the track. EDC on my E92 provides the best of both worlds. So, to answer your question, a car without EDC is a compromised setup and will not equate what EDC can provide, since EDC is dynamically adaptive, the standard shocks will not equate to any of the 3 settings.

The ///M cars do not come with variable ratio steering, but they do come with variable assist.

That's not a valid comparison unfortunately.

The e46 is definitely firmer than the e9x but it's not because it doesn't have edc.

I have owned 2 e9x m3's, one with edc, one without. The feel identical.

The "sport setting" to me is useless as it's artificially firm and loses suspension compliance and grip on tracks that aren't billiard table smooth.

I have no intention of getting edc on the new m3 if it's not standard and am confident im not missing out on anything.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

That's not a valid comparison unfortunately.

The e46 is definitely firmer than the e9x but it's not because it doesn't have edc.

I have owned 2 e9x m3's, one with edc, one without. The feel identical.

The "sport setting" to me is useless as it's artificially firm and loses suspension compliance and grip on tracks that aren't billiard table smooth.

I have no intention of getting edc on the new m3 if it's not standard and am confident im not missing out on anything.

It is a question of perspective.

I was not comparing the E9X suspension with the E46, but rather saying that the E46 was to stiff on the street and too soft at the track. A compromise.

For me, one of best features of the M3 is the "jack of all trades" aspect. And for me, the EDC option accentuates that aspect.

Interesting about your view on the Sport EDC setting. I find it suitable for many if not most tracks I go to, except for the very bumpy ones. Again another benefit of EDC, where you can adjust based on the track surface and/or conditions.

[solstice]

I just hope the F80 standard suspension will be as well tuned for the street as it is on my E90 M3. Natural, communicative but never harsh. There hasn't been an occasion where I wished for a button to make it softer or stiffer. It just always works in an analogue mechanical, predictable, planted, quite and well engineered manner. Love it. I can't say the same of the EDC cars I've driven extensively ( which does not include the E9X EDC ). I do hope I get a chance to test the F80 EDC though since I'm still open for it if it feels better.

[Racer20]

Originally Posted by aus

Did you miss the 3 setting part?
Personally, I don't care what it comes with, because it's getting changed out to a proper set of coils. I'd be much more interested in a suspension that raises the nose when needed.

As for variable steering... really??? Do we really need that in an //M car??

.

BMW's adaptive system has similar capability to the Magneride system that GM and Ferrari use. Both systems can vary the damping force in real-time, they just use different mechanisms to do so.

[littydiji]

It should be something like the GM/Ferrari shocks with variable viscosity fluid.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by littydiji

It should be something like the GM/Ferrari shocks with variable viscosity fluid.

Then BMW will charge $3000 for it...

[Racer20]

Originally Posted by littydiji

It should be something like the GM/Ferrari shocks with variable viscosity fluid.

There's really not a huge benefit to that system compared to a GOOD "normal" adaptive system. The software and the person who tunes it can have a bigger impact on the performance of the car than the damper itself. It also has some downsides . . . weight and friction are just two.

Don't get me wrong, it IS a good system, and it's a VERY good system for the Corvette's architecture, but it's not the be-all end-all for all applications.

[s4play]

Almost every one of our cars in our stable have aftermarket coilovers so you can see we are a firm believer in them. On my e90 m3 however we have EDC so went with a simply KW sleeve kit to give it some height adjustability. The EDC works amazing, in stiff mode it's quite bone jarring (not GT3 bad) but you can definitely feel it compared to the soft mode in which I usually leave it for my commutes.

For the new M3, if adaptive costs money which I'm sure BMW will charge X-amount, then I may get it and use a sleeve kit (best of both worlds in my honest opinion). Keep in mind the cost of a sleeve kit is around 800 while a full coilover setup is easily $2k+ so savings are not that much.

[bogart]

Is the adaptive M suspension for $900 (according to canadian order sheet) worth it?

If the adaptive changes the dampening in different modes, what will the car be setup as with the standard suspension?