[E90F30er]

Autocar 20 November 2013

Page 31 First Drive:
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/alpina/d3

Next week: Autocar 27 November 2013 Alpina D3 v Mercedes C63 AMG comparison.

[erbo73]

Must truly be a spectacular car! Strange however that no Magazine yet has tested (nor driven) the 335d...

[Madeup Name]

Test drove one at the weekend. The same one as Autocar as it happens.

And put my money down as a deposit straight afterwards

Comfortable, handling seemed fluid but main thing is - it's prodigiously fast. All I have to do now is wait...

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by Madeup Name

Test drove one at the weekend. The same one as Autocar as it happens.

And put my money down as a deposit straight afterwards

Comfortable, handling seemed fluid but main thing is - it's prodigiously fast. All I have to do now is wait...

Sounds like the ultimate Diesel F30......congrats!!!

[alibonyad]

Noticed the bit in the article where it says it lacks any kind of noise which can be described as enjoyable. Maybe not compared to a 350bhp V6 petrol but taking into consideration it's a diesel then I hardly think that's a fair judgement. I can't think of any other Diesel engine that sounds as "enjoyable" as the 6 cylinder BMW's.

Overall, it's a very positive review though! Just another one to add to the large collection of very positive F30 reviews.

[Proftinkerpot]

Must agree. BMW diesels sound great. My wife was taking a colleague to a meeting in our X3 sD M Sport and this guy commented how amazing it sounded. This guy is not big into cars in any way but he said the X3 sounds so purposeful and powerful.

[Midasman13]

Had a test drive in an Alpina D5 prior to buying the F31. It was awesome, would have bought it but they were not prepared to offer an acceptable deal. Engine note was great. Maybe next time.

[Cootie]

A mate of mine has a D5 and have to say it's a brilliant all-rounder. The way it glides down the road on 20" wheels is uncanny. Similarly the performance and handling is impressive so with 300kg less weight to haul around in the D3 that should raise the bar quite a bit in both areas.

My 335d arrives next month, fingers crossed, but would have gone for a D3 if there were reasonably attractive PCP deals available. To buy an Alpina you've really got to be looking at paying cash for it to make financial sense.

[gtsussex]

You're completely right. I looked at a D5 before buying the 335d and the discounts and finance deals were ridiculously unattractive.

I haven't driven the D3 but I'm sure it is an awesome car. BUT and it's a big but. Once you take into account discounts and PCP it is a hugely more expensive car. If you took a 335d M Sport with the Sport + pack, that gives a comparable standard spec (ish). The difference between the cars is around £2k. BUT then throw in BMW's before haggling £5k contribution plus fact you should quite easily get at least another £2.5 off that and suddenly it's nearly £10k.

And that's before you take into account an APR difference between 3.9% and 8.9%. That difference on a £50k car over 4 years with £2.5k deposit for those two rates is over £5k. You can sure as bet residuals will be no better (or at least historically they have never been and one I got quoted on D5 was awful).

So would I like a D3? Hell yes! Don't like the quad exhausts but otherwise I actually like the styling and wheels. Would I forgo my x Drive now (especially now weather's getting slippery and cold)? Nope, not a cat in hells chance. What's the point in having 600lbft of torque and watching the DSC pull it all away due to lack of grip. I can make my little flashy sign come up at will and I've got another two wheels to help out.

I'd love to try their xDrive version (assuming they offer it over here) as I'm sure they might well have sorted the suspension. BUT given a £3k ish premium over the sDrive one, that would mean a nearly £18k premium over my car over the time I keep it

Autocar are right, it's an awesome car and I salute (and am slightly jealous of) anyone who's getting one. BUT it hacks me off that they continually refuse to acknowledge the 335d's existance (despite me emailing Steve Cropley, Matt Prior and the general email - they have last week added the 330xdrive's to the price list!!). In the REAL world (of shitty weather and the fact that most people buy these cars with PCP's and discounts), a 335d (especially the touring I suppose) could possibly lay claim to being one of the best fast allrounders and whilst BMW continues to offer daft discounts and PCP's, it's a no brainer.

[Cootie]

I was actually very surprised at the amount of traction the D5 has, admittedly with the optional limited slip differential. Even in damp conditions recently heading over the top of the Pennines my mate was able to get all the power down without the traction control intervening. I wouldn't have expected the same in my 123d! Guessing the combination of LSD plus Michelin Pilot Supersports makes this possible. He's fitting Michelin Alpin winter tyres shortly so I'll be interested to see how they cope in the winter.

[gtsussex]

Originally Posted by Cootie

I was actually very surprised at the amount of traction the D5 has, admittedly with the optional limited slip differential. Even in damp conditions recently heading over the top of the Pennines my mate was able to get all the power down without the traction control intervening. I wouldn't have expected the same in my 123d! Guessing the combination of LSD plus Michelin Pilot Supersports makes this possible. He's fitting Michelin Alpin winter tyres shortly so I'll be interested to see how they cope in the winter.

I loved the D5 and was hugely smitten with it. I'm a fan of the 5's VDC in normal 5's and I suspect that Alpina's tuned version along with a bit more weight (and those tyres) helps. Was a cracker of a car. If only they'd done a discount and decent finance

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by gtsussex

that would mean a nearly £18k premium over my car over the time I keep it

And for a lot less than than you could do any modifications you wanted to your current car to give it the same performance as the Alpina:

LSD - BMW performance or Quaife
Non-RFT - Pilot super sports
ECU - Hartge ECU puts out the same as the D3

That would be less than £4k and you could do the tyres when it comes time to change them anyway. Alpina suspension can be bough separately, though not sure how much. It will be interesting to see what the ride height of the xdrive D3 is compared to the standard F30s.

Other than looks, you'd have a car that performed pretty much the same as the Alpina, albeit with more generic M-Sport looks.

[gtsussex]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

And for a lot less than than you could do any modifications you wanted to your current car to give it the same performance as the Alpina:

LSD - BMW performance or Quaife
Non-RFT - Pilot super sports
ECU - Hartge ECU puts out the same as the D3

That would be less than £4k and you could do the tyres when it comes time to change them anyway. Alpina suspension can be bough separately, though not sure how much. It will be interesting to see what the ride height of the xdrive D3 is compared to the standard F30s.

Other than looks, you'd have a car that performed pretty much the same as the Alpina, albeit with more generic M-Sport looks.

I'm really interested too to see what Alpina do with the suspension for the xDrive as I may well be interested in a set of their springs - watching with great interest!! As for the Hartge, just waiting to hear back from them actually

[Finnie]

A wee bit off topic - I would love a D3 but it's too expensive as had already been said,

but anyway what I'm trying to say is the Audi SQ5 is prob the best sounding diesel around right now, check out you tube!

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by gtsussex

You're completely right. I looked at a D5 before buying the 335d and the discounts and finance deals were ridiculously unattractive.

I haven't driven the D3 but I'm sure it is an awesome car. BUT and it's a big but. Once you take into account discounts and PCP it is a hugely more expensive car. If you took a 335d M Sport with the Sport + pack, that gives a comparable standard spec (ish). The difference between the cars is around £2k. BUT then throw in BMW's before haggling £5k contribution plus fact you should quite easily get at least another £2.5 off that and suddenly it's nearly £10k.

And that's before you take into account an APR difference between 3.9% and 8.9%. That difference on a £50k car over 4 years with £2.5k deposit for those two rates is over £5k. You can sure as bet residuals will be no better (or at least historically they have never been and one I got quoted on D5 was awful).

So would I like a D3? Hell yes! Don't like the quad exhausts but otherwise I actually like the styling and wheels. Would I forgo my x Drive now (especially now weather's getting slippery and cold)? Nope, not a cat in hells chance. What's the point in having 600lbft of torque and watching the DSC pull it all away due to lack of grip. I can make my little flashy sign come up at will and I've got another two wheels to help out.

I'd love to try their xDrive version (assuming they offer it over here) as I'm sure they might well have sorted the suspension. BUT given a £3k ish premium over the sDrive one, that would mean a nearly £18k premium over my car over the time I keep it

Autocar are right, it's an awesome car and I salute (and am slightly jealous of) anyone who's getting one. BUT it hacks me off that they continually refuse to acknowledge the 335d's existance (despite me emailing Steve Cropley, Matt Prior and the general email - they have last week added the 330xdrive's to the price list!!). In the REAL world (of shitty weather and the fact that most people buy these cars with PCP's and discounts), a 335d (especially the touring I suppose) could possibly lay claim to being one of the best fast allrounders and whilst BMW continues to offer daft discounts and PCP's, it's a no brainer.

I on the other hand am loving this wet weather and 490ft.lb going through the rear wheels......I can hold a drift that the car just can't do (or probably my skill level won't allow) in the dry.

[Cootie]

Originally Posted by gtsussex

I'm really interested too to see what Alpina do with the suspension for the xDrive as I may well be interested in a set of their springs - watching with great interest!! As for the Hartge, just waiting to hear back from them actually

I'm not sure whether Alpina supply parts by themselves but I know they recalibrate the adaptive dampers to work alongside their revised springs and the non-run-flat tyres.

Would certainly be interested to see where you get to with Hartge though - the engine tuning to 362bhp sounds interesting as well...

[gtsussex]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

I on the other hand am loving this wet weather and 490ft.lb going through the rear wheels......I can hold a drift that the car just can't do (or probably my skill level won't allow) in the dry.

Ah now, hold on Gordon, I'm with you in terms of playing on all levels. As you well know, I embrace the wet weather! Whilst my back end isn't a flexible as yours in the wet (if you'll pardon the pun), my DSC off light is quite regularly on and thereby the 335d takes on a whole new (vastly enjoyable) character. To do the same regularly in the dry would be a) noisy as P Zeros squeal like pigs b) a little irresponsible as you really need to unsettle the car in the dry on turn in and that means large speed commitment. My solution is to fit brand new Sottozero Winter tyres every week - I have never ever had so much fun. Zero lateral grip from tickover

My point was that would you be able to have more fun or put that extra 100blft down for such a huge price premium? Not really. I might as well have your car (which is still the sDrive of choice). You'd have to have that LSD to allow you to practice your drifting skills more satisfactorily and it should help considerably on poor services where DSC is taming in unnecessary single wheelspin. But think I'd just fit an Quaife LSD to your car instead :-) rather than buying the D3.

I just can't see in the wet (without an LSD so comparing car on car) how the D3's oomph would vastly improve things - it needs that LSD but I wonder what the percentage is of buyers that don't pay for the option on a D3 and then spend their lives with DSC light on....... Should charge more and make it standard.

[gtsussex]

Originally Posted by Cootie

I'm not sure whether Alpina supply parts by themselves but I know they recalibrate the adaptive dampers to work alongside their revised springs and the non-run-flat tyres.

Would certainly be interested to see where you get to with Hartge though - the engine tuning to 362bhp sounds interesting as well...

You may well be right. What I want to see really is what they do with ride height. If Alpina drop it then surely others will follow...

[Madeup Name]

Originally Posted by gtsussex

Ah now, hold on Gordon, I'm with you in terms of playing on all levels. As you well know, I embrace the wet weather! Whilst my back end isn't a flexible as yours in the wet (if you'll pardon the pun), my DSC off light is quite regularly off and thereby the 335d takes on a whole new (vastly enjoyable) character. To do the same regularly in the dry would be a) noisy as P Zeros squeal like pigs b) a little irresponsible as you really need to unsettle the car in the dry on turn in and that means large speed commitment. My solution is to fit brand new Sottozero Winter tyres every week - I have never ever had so much fun. Zero lateral grip from tickover

My point was that would you be able to have more fun or put that extra 100blft down for such a huge price premium? Not really. I might as well have your car (which is still the sDrive of choice). You'd have to have that LSD to allow you to practice your drifting skills more satisfactorily and it should help considerably on poor services where DSC is taming in unnecessary single wheelspin. But think I'd just fit an Quaife LSD to your car instead :-) rather than buying the D3.

I just can't see in the wet (without an LSD so comparing car on car) how the D3's oomph would vastly improve things.

More ooophm improves everything.

I have never, ever sat in a car and thought 'if only I had less power/torque'!

I have thought 'I'd like more grip', but if I need less power, I push my right foot a little less down and that seems to do the trick

If you are saying that 4 wheel drive would be faster in the wet, you're probably right. If you're saying it will be more fun than I think you're 100% wrong.

The way the car twitched under hard acceleration over damp leaves was a key selling point to me

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by Madeup Name

If you are saying that 4 wheel drive would be faster in the wet, you're probably right. If you're saying it will be more fun than I think you're 100% wrong.

Outright speed is totally objective whereas the other is subjective, so you really are only in a position to say what's fun to you, not determine what may be fun to others!

Others have posted recently that the xdrive car with DSC fully off, is quite happy to be a very playful car, and executing 4 wheel drifts or enjoying how a 4wd pulls you out of a corner can be a lot of fun too.

Ultimately, people have a reasonable (but not complete) choice to get what works for them:

sdrive v xdrive (not with 335d unless you want a D3)
diesel v petrol
auto v manual (not so much with the 6 cyl diesels now)
unfortunately it has to be turbocharged these days

[gtsussex]

Originally Posted by Madeup Name

More ooophm improves everything.

I have never, ever sat in a car and thought 'if only I had less power/torque'!

I have thought 'I'd like more grip', but if I need less power, I push my right foot a little less down and that seems to do the trick

If you are saying that 4 wheel drive would be faster in the wet, you're probably right. If you're saying it will be more fun than I think you're 100% wrong.

The way the car twitched under hard acceleration over damp leaves was a key selling point to me

If only I had less power? Good God no Wouldn't be considering adding more ponies already if that were the case No but if you were saying, God it would be lovely to get the extra power down I've paid a premium for, that would be a pain. If you're pushing your right foot down less because the car can't put the power down, then what the hell's the point in it?

I'm not saying an xDrive would be more fun (everything's subjective anyhoos). What I have said is the following -

Would I swap my car and pay £18k premium? No, even by my car buying standards, that's a little excessive
Is the xDrive more fun in the wet than dry? Hell yes
Is having xDrive useful for needing to accelarate in crappy conditions without DSC cutting in (when compared to similar sDrive)? Yes
But can I still get traction flickering and thereby cutting power in the xDrive? Yes, regularly have to DSC off.
So therefore is having already 500lbft under your right foot quite tricky for the car to put down in wet? Sometimes
So does that mean taking the front driven wheels out of the equation, you'd be pushing the traction control in crappy conditions to point whereby system wouldn't deploy the power? Yes
So will you actually be able to get that 600lbft down in anything other than good conditions without an LSD? More than likely, No.
So is there much point in having a lump more power (and paying the premium accordingly) if you don't go for LSD? Personally I can't see it. I'd rather take NISFAN's PPK'd 330d and put a Quaife diff on it. All for a HUGE heap less cash.
Finally, even though even my xDrive can have issues putting down the 335d's torque in crappy conditions, do I want more power? Well of course I do

Better still, BMW should damn well bring out a 335d sDrive with LSD on it which would deliver most of the Alpina's greatness but mean it's more accessible to most who need those discounts and PCP deals (that you can't get with Alpinas) to bring these wonderful machines into a realistically affordable level!

The reason you liked the way the car dealt with the leaves was down to the LSD which is worth its weight in gold. What I am saying is that anyone who orders that car without the LSD is bonkers but I suspect that not everyone will realise this as it will appeal to a broad range of customers.

As for fun, everyone seems to have this preconception that having an xDrive car means you can't have fun in them which is absolute rubbish. I'm not saying you're not going to have a laugh in a D3 (hell I know I would ) but the xDrive has it moments as well..... Just saying

I'm still massively jealous of anyone that does get on so in no way am I Alpina bashing

[Madeup Name]

Interestingly, the salesman told me the car I tried didn't have an LSD, and tried to talk me out of selecting an LSD as this would make it harder to drive because it would be "heavier" - I am not joking.

But that is why we have car salesman - so we can ignore their dribble.

I am lucky because I can buy without credit, so the price difference isn't as great as for some. And I want the "fastest diesel car" available. And I want 2WD and LSD. And 53mpg and >170mph. And and and.... and I can have it.