[jcoo085]

I've been read on this forum of a few occasions where BMW is charging customers for software updates. I personally think this is plain wrong. I'll give a few reasons.

Firstly: When software is released to the market, it is never perfect. Therefore, companies release free updates for that product. Also, they continue to make updates available for the life of the product. Now let's look at the 3er. The E90 is very software dependent, meaning most functions of the vehicle are controlled by some form of software. As we know, that software is far from perfect. Rest assured BMW knows this as well. Hence, they release periodic updates. Here's the catch: you can only get it if you can demonstrate a problem with the car. As you may or may not know, software updates aren't just there to fix problems. For example, they can add new features or make the device run faster (maybe by optimising the algorithms). Take that 'hesitation' problem I've been reading about. That's not listed as a fix, but the software update apparently corrects it.

Secondly: can you imagine what would happen if, say, Microsoft released Windows XP Service Pack 2 only to customers that could demonstrate a problem? Can you just imagine the shit storm then? It wouldn't be pretty.

Thirdly: of the entire BMW customer base, how many people actually know/care that there are software updates? I venture that it's probably a small percentage. As well, of those that know and don't notice a problem, how many could be bothered getting an update? Probably not many.

Now I realise it's a slightly different issue here. Essentially only BMW can update the cars' software and therefore need to pay people to do it. While I mentioned that IT companies release updates for the life of the product, let's take that to mean, in this case, the warranty period. Software updates should be freely applied so long as the vehicle is in warranty. That's what a warranty is for. Not only to fix mechanical defects, but now that software is becoming a bigger part of new vehicles, these should be fixed as well.

When it's all said and done, software updates are released to correct problems that are KNOWN to exist. Therefore, if someone brings their car in under warranty and requests an update, they should be able to get one free of charge. It's irrelevant whether or not I notice that the "VANOS intake is stiff or jammed". It's irrelevant whether or not I notice that the "Menu button on the iDrive controller flashes briefly”, or there can be "Sporadic CCC resets". The fact is, these problems are known to exist and if there is an update for my particular model that has been developed to correct these faults, I WANT IT! Why should I wait until these things happen? It's better to be proactive rather than reactive. I can only imagine what would happen if I told my IT Manager that I wasn't going to install the latest Windows patches because I hadn't been hit by anything yet. He'd tear me a new one!

I'm sure there will be both some agreement or disagreement to parts or all of this post, but it's just my €0.02. I as yet haven't tried to get an update. I'm one of those people that haven’t noticed any real problems and don’t know of any specific ones that exist for my model. Therefore I haven't asked for one. Of course if I do hear of any, I'll be heading to my dealer ASAP.

[Costa]

>jcoo085

Good post - I think you have covered all bases, very comprehensive. I agree with everything you have said but I am not sure if we can really make a difference here, other than to let others know what avenues of action are available to them.

In my case I ordered in August, the car was built in mid september and I didn't get it till this week. Hence I do not have MP3 playback from any of the car's optical drives. The dealer's position at the moment is that I have a September car and I missed out because that functionality did not come along until October. My user manual says otherwise. I paid for the car in December, and as far as I'm concerned, I should have a car that is current at the time of purchase. We'll see where this all goes.

As far as updates in the general case go, I think you are right - we should have updates so long as we are under warranty. This is no different to how any other software support or warranty arrangement works. I think BMW and indeed all car makers are not ready yet to cope with software upgrades. They have entered the software industry with their eyes somewhat closed and the concept of dealing with upgrades is a bit foreign to them ... they are in for some education

[ward]

Meow!

[Broken1]

I would get the software update (it would be free hear as we have an all inclusive motor plan) but after hearingm some stories of poeple's bluetooth stop working, I'd rather just drive my car updateless :-)

It should be free however, and they should hire new people so that it's a smooth and easy process...something like windows update...it can be d/l'd at home- and you plug your laptop into a usb port in your car and it updates.

[LEDZEP]

If you've read previous posts on the subject, then I'm sure you know I completely agree. I don't expect BMW or the dealerships to bear undue cost to perform updates, and I wouldn't want updates 'just because', but we should be made aware of them and the issues that they address. They should always be free within warranty.

As you may know, my personal petpeeve is the addition of software features from one month to another within the same model year where actual functionality is added to the car. I have ranted on that before, so I'll spare readers from another.

[jcoo085]

Everyone's had some good responses to my rant. Now I don't feel like it's a complete waste of time.

LEDZEP, I agree there should be no undue burden to service centres. But if there is an update for a particular model, then that owner should be entitled to that update regardless of whether or not he or she notices anything wrong. Also, if an update adds new functionality, then all owners must be entitled to it free of charge under warranty. Going back to the MS and Windows analogy: Windows XP normally comes with Media Player 9. But let's say on their newer shipments, it came with Media Player 10. Now that's not a problem because we can all freely download it. But then imagine if MS said sorry, you received XP before such and such date so you can't have Media Player 10. I'll leave the outcome to your imagination.

Broken1, you're one of the people I mentioned (which includes myself). We know there are updates, but since we haven't really noticed anything substantial, we feel it's really not worth the hassle (even though you can get it for free with your motor plan). But let's suspend disbelief for a moment and pretend CIP 19 would have prevented your vibration damper from failing. Wouldn't it be prudent for BMW to apply v19 before it happens, rather than waiting for something to go wrong and the service team saying something along the lines of, "Oh yeah. The latest software update fixes that problem. We'll update your car so it doesn't happen again". I'll leave the answer up to you.

I don't know what it is, but for some reason I feel really strongly about this. Maybe I should seek .

[Broken1]

Originally Posted by jcoo085

Broken1, you're one of the people I mentioned (which includes myself). We know there are updates, but since we haven't really noticed anything substantial, we feel it's really not worth the hassle (even though you can get it for free with your motor plan). But let's suspend disbelief for a moment and pretend CIP 19 would have prevented your vibration damper from failing. Wouldn't it be prudent for BMW to apply v19 before it happens, rather than waiting for something to go wrong and the service team saying something along the lines of, "Oh yeah. The latest software update fixes that problem. We'll update your car so it doesn't happen again". I'll leave the answer up to you.

I don't know what it is, but for some reason I feel really strongly about this. Maybe I should seek .

Well, put that way...you are 100% right.

The vibration damer problem I had is actually a known problem. Some of the early productions models (aka Beta E90's) had wrongly molded parts. Idealy, BMW should have recalled the cars and repaired them...but instead they are waiting for the parts to fail.

This is all very well - I am a car fanatic..and took close attention to detail. If my mother or sister had been driving the car, she would have noticed a problem, when the damper came off and the car stopped going.

As far as the software campaigns go - I think the reason BMW doesn't make them so easily available is because they take up to 2 days to install (which takes space in the work shop) and it could cause more problems installing it - such as the need to replace blown fuses, ccc modules etc.

If BMW could fix their software so that it's not code ontop of code patched to be patched...then I think it could be easier. If it only took a couple of minutes to install the software - BMW centers could do it while you wait...and every one could have the latest software.

In a "better" world : the updates should be easy enough for us to do at home. I recently bought a PSP - and as I got the last of the first release, there was a software update. PSP has wireless lan, I found a hotspot (the local shopping center is one big hotspot) and went through the menus to search for and then download and install the latest update.

---> Imagine while parked in a shopping center, or even while driving through 3G or edge on your cellphone - your car could update it's software to the latest version. It would even be good enough to be able to park outside a BMW dealer, and quickly scroll through some menu's to do an update.

Unfortunately, with the lengthy process and time it takes for the current software update system to work...it's simply not worth it.

A new CIP comes out every month, with some updates for most likely every model. From what I've read, it can take 1 - 2 days a car...so if everyone wanted updates...that is pretty much all the workshop would do.

It's just a stupid system. I do believe that the software should be updated everytime your car goes in for service or maintence...so that you are at least more or less updated. With the 2 day turnaround time of the update...that can't be done either...

[LEDZEP]

Yeah, when I mentioned 'undue burden' - I really mean it's BMWs job to make this easier at the service centers. A full day (or more) to update software is ridiculous.

[jcoo085]

Seems like we're all thinking along the same lines. I could go on forever but I'll stop. I'm feeling better. I think I just needed to vent.

[e90driver]

Why does it take potentially days to update an e90 when my laptop can be updated in minutes?

[jcoo085]

Originally Posted by e90driver

Why does it take potentially days to update an e90 when my laptop can be updated in minutes?

It seems to me that the update functionality was added as a bit of an after thought rather than being part of the development process from the beginning.

[Wolf359]

About that MP3 playback retrofit, any clue on when it should be available? They seem to be constantly pushing the date and I wouldn't even be surprised if we ended up having a "won't happen" reply down the road.

This would be unacceptable, as the software exists for more recent cars, the hardware is the same and it should only consist of dumping the update in older computers.

I don't care about DRL's or the lawyer screen disappearing on it's own, the only thing I miss is the MP3 playback. First in line customers paid to get those cars fast on the street, wow everyone and give visibility to the new 3-Series, and should not be forgotten.

[nyfinest]

When i brought my car in for updates last week for software updates(325 production on 4/1/05) the dealer had 1 bay which was capable of performing updates. I was told that it would take 4-8 hours depending on the car and computer. 1 of the issues i discussed with the SA was htat i wanted DRL's/Self Locking 5MPH Doors. When i picked the car up 8 hours later i drove away and guess what. None of the features i asked for. Drove around the block back to the dealer. Spoke to the Lead "Technician" and he within 30 minutes installed those features after hooking the car back up.


When i asked what was done the first time he stated "emissions recall "computer update????? Regardless my opoin IMHO is that while i know software isnt perfect i echo the sentiments of others that: THE E90 WAS RUSHED TO MARKET WITH OBVIOUS SOFTWARE/ENGINEERING ISSUES AND WE ARE SUFFERING FOR(ESPECIALLY EARLY BUYERS). When i asked him what version do i now have he didnt have the slightest!!!!!! I'm certain that we all will have to be back a few more times before the kinks are worked out. Such is life in the world of advanced if not "runaway technology"!!!!!!!!!

[nyfinest]

Recently was in for updates. Can anyone decipher the following codes. Would definitely take a advanced "codebreaker"!!!

SIB 12 19 05 LBL 448 PROGRAM DME N52 DME REPROGRAM
RECALL UPDATE (DME REPROGRAM)

SIB 12 09 05 LBL CODE 440 PRGMING OBD
RECALL UPDATE (OBD REPROGRAM)

What does this mean if anything. Does it show the latest version or updates or is it "JUST CODE"???????

[E90Fleet]

Originally Posted by nyfinest

Recently was in for updates. Can anyone decipher the following codes. Would definitely take a advanced "codebreaker"!!!

SIB 12 19 05 LBL 448 PROGRAM DME N52 DME REPROGRAM
RECALL UPDATE (DME REPROGRAM)

SIB 12 09 05 LBL CODE 440 PRGMING OBD
RECALL UPDATE (OBD REPROGRAM)

What does this mean if anything. Does it show the latest version or updates or is it "JUST CODE"???????

SIB 12 19 05 is a fix to correct a problem where certain cars didnt correctly log a fault

SIB 12 09 05 is to fix a fault where non BMW diagnostics machines could not access the cars systems

[E90Fleet]

Updates are free, if they fix a problm on your car.

For example: A number of 5 Series had a problem with their led corner lights not lighting up correctly. This was fixed by say "CIP Y". Now cars with CIP X that dont have the problem will not get CIP Y free, because it really does nothing for them, but ones with the problem will get it free

So not all CIP updates will be free, but ones that fix a problem will be


And dont think its only the E90 or BMW that keep having updates, the pre-facelift 7 Series still recieves some updates and Merc constantly changes its S class software

[Bimmerista]

Originally Posted by E90Fleet

Updates are free, if they fix a problm on your car.

For example: A number of 5 Series had a problem with their led corner lights not lighting up correctly. This was fixed by say "CIP Y". Now cars with CIP X that dont have the problem will not get CIP Y free, because it really does nothing for them, but ones with the problem will get it free

So not all CIP updates will be free, but ones that fix a problem will be


And dont think its only the E90 or BMW that keep having updates, the pre-facelift 7 Series still recieves some updates and Merc constantly changes its S class software

I agree with this ; if it is designed to remediate = free. If designed to enhance, pay up you cheapos

[nyfinest]

Thanks for responding and your great help. However, I believe i need the code you deciphered to be deciphered!!!!!. I.E. I didnt fully understand the explantion. Sorry just a novice.

[nyfinest]

I concur with Bimerista and E90Fleet. I ask for nothing more than to bring me "up to date" with my "contemporaries" Should not be punished for purchasing early!!!
I'm certainly not looking for anything other than what engineers at BMW designed for me to have. Things like self locking doors and DRL's were desined from the start to be part of the E90 and are thus "remedial"....Anything not remedial should be paid for!!!!

[Helmar]

I agree that all software updates should be made available free of charge. You bought a car, not software. The software makes the car run correctly.

Having said that, as a retired software developer, I'm (and I'm sure many of you too) very much aware that new software releases often break things that were working correctly before.

If the customer is not exhibiting any problems, then the software updates should be made available with a full list of exactly what "Bugs" the software addresses. The consumer can then make a choice as to whether to have the software installed or not.

In addition, BMW should maintain a list of PROBLEMS caused by each software release, to aid the consumer in making their choice.

HBH

2006 330xi Barrique red, manual transmission
Beige w/Dakota Leather Upholstery
Poplar Natural Wood Trim
Premium package
Cold Weather Package
Comfort Access
Active Cruise Control
Park Distance Control

[jcoo085]

I'm getting CIP 20 put on the car next Wednesday. My dealer was pretty good about it. As soon as I mentioned "pop sound after a navigation command" he nodded his head and said "Yes, that's a software issue. We'll update it".

EDIT: So at least I could demonstrate a problem and will now have the latest version.

[NaTuReB0Y]

What? It's not free?
I'm getting mine update next week...........