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      10-05-2013, 02:58 PM   #1
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M3/M4 fit and finish improvements over 335i/435i

Let me say that I previously owned an e90 in a base sport trim in 2005. The 428i I sat in a couple of days ago is not much improved, if at all, in terms of fit and finish. The e90 was $36k sticker and this car was $48k. In particular the exterior door handles felt cheap and light, and the dash felt a little bit crammed or smushed. The headlight switch and start/stop switch looked a bit overly complicated or cheap. Even though this 428i had a $1900 LED headlights package, there were giant incandescent red christmas tree bulbs on the rear tail lights.

Then I sat in an M5 and it was an absolute dream. Big, luxurious feeling door handles. Alcantara headliner. Sensible, integrated dash with a screen that looks like it is built into the car instead of tacked on after. Roomy console. Beautiful seats with integrated headrests.

I just hope the M3 has a lot of the cheap bits removed or replaced on it. LED tail lights and upgraded appointments throughout.

Do we know for sure what is upgraded?
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      10-05-2013, 07:42 PM   #2
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Honestly, I think it's premature for anyone to give an answer to your question. Here's why:

1) The production version of the car hasn't even been unveiled yet (January 2014, Detroit Auto Show).
2) No one's even gotten their hands on one yet.
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      10-05-2013, 08:18 PM   #3
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From what I recall, the E9X 335 had the same door handles as my E9X M3, also all the interior bits were exactly the same minus the leather, center controls and instrumentation. If you grab the door handle of a 535i it feels like the M5, the 5 series are built better than the 3er's it's just the hierarchy.
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      10-05-2013, 08:50 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E92Jay View Post
From what I recall, the E9X 335 had the same door handles as my E9X M3, also all the interior bits were exactly the same minus the leather, center controls and instrumentation. If you grab the door handle of a 535i it feels like the M5, the 5 series are built better than the 3er's it's just the hierarchy.
Leather matters a lot.
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      10-05-2013, 10:57 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by turbolag View Post
Leather matters a lot.
Yes it does, the novillo was much more supple than this "dakota" crap in my F30, but otherwise I doubt there will be much more that is different between the F3X and the F8X...just my .02
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      10-05-2013, 11:39 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gee-m-w View Post
Let me say that I previously owned an e90 in a base sport trim in 2005. The 428i I sat in a couple of days ago is not much improved, if at all, in terms of fit and finish. The e90 was $36k sticker and this car was $48k. In particular the exterior door handles felt cheap and light, and the dash felt a little bit crammed or smushed. The headlight switch and start/stop switch looked a bit overly complicated or cheap. Even though this 428i had a $1900 LED headlights package, there were giant incandescent red christmas tree bulbs on the rear tail lights.

Then I sat in an M5 and it was an absolute dream. Big, luxurious feeling door handles. Alcantara headliner. Sensible, integrated dash with a screen that looks like it is built into the car instead of tacked on after. Roomy console. Beautiful seats with integrated headrests.

I just hope the M3 has a lot of the cheap bits removed or replaced on it. LED tail lights and upgraded appointments throughout.

Do we know for sure what is upgraded?
Come back to thread when u get a chance to sit in the new m4
or m3. Really sitting in a entry level 4 series then go to sit in a f10 m5 lol.
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      10-06-2013, 12:15 AM   #7
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Personally I felt that the e9x M3 had a much better interior than the regular e9x 3 series. Sure the layout and design are the same but if you spent a few days in a M3 and just fiddled and touched everything and then spent a few days in the regular 3 series, you would notice a big difference IMHO.
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      10-06-2013, 08:15 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khanyam3 View Post
Come back to thread when u get a chance to sit in the new m4
or m3. Really sitting in a entry level 4 series then go to sit in a f10 m5 lol.
Seriously.
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      10-06-2013, 08:21 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gee-m-w View Post

Then I sat in an M5 and it was an absolute dream. Big, luxurious feeling door handles. Alcantara headliner. Sensible, integrated dash with a screen that looks like it is built into the car instead of tacked on after. Roomy console. Beautiful seats with integrated headrests.

I just hope the M3 has a lot of the cheap bits removed or replaced on it. LED tail lights and upgraded appointments throughout.
You're talking two different things, design and materials. All of the items above are design, and aren't going to change in the M4 vs. a 4 series. The dash layout, screen position, etc will still be the same. The seats, though, will likely be different.

You're also talking about a much larger car with a different design purpose.

Finally, I owned and daily drove an F10 for 30 months. And I welcome a lot of the differences you mention between the F10 and the F30 / F80. Tablet style nav screen? Allows overall dash to be lower, making the windshield much more open. My F30 always felt like I was peering out of a gun bunker. And I'm 6'2". Cupholder placement in the F10 blocked the HVAC controls. A total joke. At least they fixed the pop up portion of it for 2014.

The 4 series might be a lot more than your base 2005 E90, but that was 8 years ago and I have news for you, a V6 Navi Accord is pushing $32k. Cars in general are more expensive. BMW's aren't great deals, either.
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      10-06-2013, 10:39 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khanyam3 View Post
Come back to thread when u get a chance to sit in the new m4
or m3. Really sitting in a entry level 4 series then go to sit in a f10 m5 lol.
I don't know how a $48k car can be considered entry level. They had the 435i there too for $58k and same deal. These are not entry level cars. Audi is selling very high end stuff at that price, like the S5 and the TT RS both of which have amazing designer interiors and better performance (limited slip diffs, etc.).

I know the M3 is going to be a performance monster. What I don't want to happen is that I perceive it's gone too far down market and I'm more an M5 buyer. When the price gets past a certain point I end up being a Tesla Model S buyer because they execute better at the $90k car category. BMW's sweet spot was making awesome sports sedans for under $60k.
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      10-06-2013, 11:43 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gee-m-w
Quote:
Originally Posted by khanyam3 View Post
Come back to thread when u get a chance to sit in the new m4
or m3. Really sitting in a entry level 4 series then go to sit in a f10 m5 lol.
I don't know how a $48k car can be considered entry level. They had the 435i there too for $58k and same deal. These are not entry level cars. Audi is selling very high end stuff at that price, like the S5 and the TT RS both of which have amazing designer interiors and better performance (limited slip diffs, etc.).

I know the M3 is going to be a performance monster. What I don't want to happen is that I perceive it's gone too far down market and I'm more an M5 buyer. When the price gets past a certain point I end up being a Tesla Model S buyer because they execute better at the $90k car category. BMW's sweet spot was making awesome sports sedans for under $60k.
This would be a great time to pick up a Tesla model S. I believe they are having a fire sale (sorry, couldn't resist).
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      10-06-2013, 01:03 PM   #12
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M3s are usually equipped with seats waaaaaaay better than any other 3 series and for my taste even better than every 5 & 6 series including the new M5 and M6s. I don't think this will change, the F8X seats will likely blow away anything available in the F3X lines. As other have mentioned leather matters. It will likely be one of Novillo, Merino or Nappa. Hopefully there will be some upgraded trim as well in terms of CF/Alcantara/Alu mix. There is such a trim package for the F30 that I found nice enough though. I'm mostly concerned about hard plastics and flimsy, less tactical feel to areas not covered in leather and controls. We'll see but my guess is that with the right options as full leather it will be pretty nice.

Last edited by solstice; 10-06-2013 at 01:11 PM..
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      10-06-2013, 08:00 PM   #13
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My '10 had the extended novellio leather, but I did drive a friend's '11 that didn't have it, and it felt "cheaper" than mine, things like the door interior and stuff like that felt cheaper, but I agree the M seat is waaaaay better and I do miss my "carbon leather" on the dash, I don't expect much will change on the inside from what I have seen though...
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      10-07-2013, 12:16 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gee-m-w
Quote:
Originally Posted by khanyam3 View Post
Come back to thread when u get a chance to sit in the new m4
or m3. Really sitting in a entry level 4 series then go to sit in a f10 m5 lol.
I don't know how a $48k car can be considered entry level. They had the 435i there too for $58k and same deal. These are not entry level cars. Audi is selling very high end stuff at that price, like the S5 and the TT RS both of which have amazing designer interiors and better performance (limited slip diffs, etc.).

I know the M3 is going to be a performance monster. What I don't want to happen is that I perceive it's gone too far down market and I'm more an M5 buyer. When the price gets past a certain point I end up being a Tesla Model S buyer because they execute better at the $90k car category. BMW's sweet spot was making awesome sports sedans for under $60k.
The point is, cars like Audi A4/5, TT, Mercedes C63, etc are all 6+ years old design.
Not exactly a competitor anymore.
When they come out with next generation of cars like the 3 series, they will likely cost as much if not more than the current 3/4 series.

*Also yes I love the 5 interior, 3 series not so much.
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      10-07-2013, 12:31 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gee-m-w View Post
I don't know how a $48k car can be considered entry level. They had the 435i there too for $58k and same deal. These are not entry level cars. Audi is selling very high end stuff at that price, like the S5 and the TT RS both of which have amazing designer interiors and better performance (limited slip diffs, etc.).

I know the M3 is going to be a performance monster. What I don't want to happen is that I perceive it's gone too far down market and I'm more an M5 buyer. When the price gets past a certain point I end up being a Tesla Model S buyer because they execute better at the $90k car category. BMW's sweet spot was making awesome sports sedans for under $60k.
3 or 4 is considered entry level bmw. A 428i is an entry level 4 series follow me then the op says ohh I sat in an m5 and it was off the chain cmon man. Yes I agree with your second paragraph. We'll bmw price structure is very different from audi. It is what it is. When I said entry I wasn't considering the price.
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      10-07-2013, 02:34 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gee-m-w View Post
Let me say that I previously owned an e90 in a base sport trim in 2005. The 428i I sat in a couple of days ago is not much improved, if at all, in terms of fit and finish. The e90 was $36k sticker and this car was $48k. In particular the exterior door handles felt cheap and light, and the dash felt a little bit crammed or smushed. The headlight switch and start/stop switch looked a bit overly complicated or cheap. Even though this 428i had a $1900 LED headlights package, there were giant incandescent red christmas tree bulbs on the rear tail lights.
If you had a 2005 E90, that was a sedan, so that accounts for $2-3K. Inflation, size and standard options more than covers the remaining difference in price.

I ne love the design of the F30/F32. I won't disagree they cut some costs and could improve some areas, but overall, I dont find any of competitor's interior better.
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      10-07-2013, 09:54 AM   #17
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I agree with the OP that the interior design of the new F models could've been more let's say "cutting edge" or whatever you want to call it... this latest design on the new M4 is not something that I can't wait to get into...
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      10-07-2013, 11:38 AM   #18
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I highly dislike the F30 inside and out but mostly in. That dakota leather is really not so good and I agree everything feels kind of hollow. The 5 series doesn't have that issue but it weighs like 400 lbs more. Expect that the F80/82 will have some of the same feeling but hopefully some upgraded materials and possibly better fit and finish.
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      10-25-2013, 01:19 PM   #19
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I'm traveling this week and I have a 328i from a rental car company at the airport. It doesn't have the sport package or sport line trim. It's probably about a $40,000 sticker, no more than $43k. Has navigation. Doesn't have sirius. Black leatherette on flat black exterior.

I'm not a big fan of the iDrive. The map is pretty unusable. It can't really query locations; you need to look up the exact address on your phone and painstakingly type it in with the wheel, one field at a time. The 3D boxes for buildings look nothing like the real skyline or landscape. I've seen better systems in the Mercedes E class that have real renders of, for example, every hotel in Las Vegas.

The 2.0L turbo engine doesn't sound very luxurious when you fire it up from a cold start. Then it quiets down and it sounds normal. Acceleration is pretty good in low gears. It really hustles in 2nd. The start/stop is annoying. Do they make a replacement button that automatically disables it? It's kind of a lot to do the startup sequence of 1) put keys in cup holder 2) hit start button 3) hit sport button 4) disable start/stop 5) pull AT lever while holding hot key to reverse 6) slide AT lever into sport position.

The handling is nice and the steering is excellent like any BMW would be. The non sport suspension is a little bit squishy but some higher rate springs would fix that.

The trunk seems like it got smaller since the e90, but I may be forgetting.

The dash is growing on me. I like the way it looks at night. Even with iDrive knob there are still a lot of buttons on the steering wheel and on the dash. The "next station" button is farthest from the driver. The volume and change channel wheels on the steering wheel have a nice feel but advance slowly.

I'm still a bigger fan of the M5 cabin, but I might like this cabin in M3 trim. I'm definitely a sedan person.
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      10-25-2013, 09:38 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smashhell View Post
The point is, cars like Audi A4/5, TT, Mercedes C63, etc are all 6+ years old design.
Not exactly a competitor anymore.
When they come out with next generation of cars like the 3 series, they will likely cost as much if not more than the current 3/4 series.
Indeed, it is a good time to buy some of those cars like the S4/S5. Proven, debugged, great torque vectoring diff and handling (love their AWD), not too expensive, and with better interiors than the newer 335i/435i. Audi has been doing an amazing job over the last few years throughout their product line, particularly in the S and RS lines; even with CUVs (SQ5, RS Q3) and wagons (awesome S and RS Avants).

I certainly hope the M3/M4 end up having nice interiors.
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      10-26-2013, 12:03 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gee-m-w View Post
Let me say that I previously owned an e90 in a base sport trim in 2005. The 428i I sat in a couple of days ago is not much improved, if at all, in terms of fit and finish. The e90 was $36k sticker and this car was $48k. In particular the exterior door handles felt cheap and light, and the dash felt a little bit crammed or smushed. The headlight switch and start/stop switch looked a bit overly complicated or cheap. Even though this 428i had a $1900 LED headlights package, there were giant incandescent red christmas tree bulbs on the rear tail lights.

Then I sat in an M5 and it was an absolute dream. Big, luxurious feeling door handles. Alcantara headliner. Sensible, integrated dash with a screen that looks like it is built into the car instead of tacked on after. Roomy console. Beautiful seats with integrated headrests.

I just hope the M3 has a lot of the cheap bits removed or replaced on it. LED tail lights and upgraded appointments throughout.

Do we know for sure what is upgraded?
The 5er finished quality was of a very high standard above the 3er and the Xs- nothing to do with being a M.
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      10-27-2013, 09:20 AM   #22
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Turns out the sticker on that rental is only $38k. The leather might be sensatek. I think the technology package would help a lot with upgrading the iDrive and instruments:


Technology Package
$3,150
• Enhanced USB and Bluetooth plus Smartphone Integration
• BMW Apps - iOS and Android
• Advanced Real-Time Traffic Information
• BMW Online
• Navigation system w/ touchpad
• Instrument cluster with extended contents
• Remote Services
• Head-up Display
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