The "under 3,300 lbs" is curb weight, no?

[myzmak]

Among the debates in the main thread on the newly released official specs is what figure the "under 3,306 lb (1500kg) weight" in Jason's summary relates to.

Jason says: "no mention if this is curb weight and no specifics provided as to what equipment included/not included in figure"

While he is correct that in the first paragraph it does not specify if this is curb weight, unladden weight, etc, later on in the press release (under item 3, and then the sub-heading "Track-ready cooling system and engine oil supply for outstanding performance" the last paragraph says:

Intelligent lightweight design was a top priority in the development of the BMW M3 and BMW M4. The goal was to minimise kerb weight in order to give both models outstanding driving dynamics and exemplary efficiency. These measures have delivered impressive results. The kerb weight of the BMW M4 has been reduced to less than 1,500 kilograms, which means the new model is now around 80 kilograms lighter than a comparably equipped predecessor model – with benefits for driving dynamics and fuel consumption as well.

So it would seem this is a curb weight number (just accept the English/euro spelling).

So THAT means Jason's comparison is correct:

◦compare to E46 M3 at ~3,400 lb curb weight
◦compare to E92 M3 at ~3,600 lb curb weight
◦compare to C63 AMG at ~3,900 lb curb weight
◦compare to RS5 at ~4,000 lb curb weight

~ 7.68 lb/hp power to weight
◦compare to E92 M3 at 8.7
◦compare to C63 AMG at 8.7
◦compare to RS5 at 9.0
◦compare to E46 M3 at 10.25

This thing is lighter than an E46 and more powerful than an E9X.

Quite amazing.

That is all.

[solstice]

I wish you were right but the current M3's curb weight is 3726 lbs. 80kg is 176 lbs.
3726 - 176 = 3550 lbs. A very far cry from under 3306 lbs.

[Nex]

I'm wondering what config the car is in with this weight?
Sedan vs coupe (which is lighter?)
manual vs DCT?
standard brakes vs Carbon ceramic brakes?
standard suspension vs optional adaptive suspension?

[Jason]

About the weight quote.

The quoted 3300 lbs is with a 90 per cent full tank of gas, but no driver.

[solstice]

80kg less than the current car is the best data we can get since it covers every standard. Just use whatever standard you like and deduct 80 kg. It is way less reduction than I had hoped for and at around 5% of total weight it will be very hard to detect any difference in agility. It can of course make a lot of good when the weight is removed from moving parts to reduce inertia and also impact from undamped weight. Reduced overhang weight also makes for good things.

For me though the weight reduction is nowhere near a good enough trade-off to lose the S65 so now the hope lies with improvements in other aspects of the car. I'm going to approach this car with a large dose of caution though, luckily I'm not going to swap car until earliest a late summer ED so there should be time to test drive. If it was 3300 lbs US curb weight I would have ordered untested for sure since that would have made a signficant enough difference alone.

Again, thanks a million Jason for the awesome coverage and continous updates on specific areas. This sites really rocks for info.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by solstice

I wish you were right but the current M3's curb weight is 3726 lbs. 80kg is 176 lbs.
3726 - 176 = 3550 lbs. A very far cry from under 3306 lbs.

Sorry, where is that curb weight figure from?

good ole wikipedia gives E9X M3 3483 in coupe (which makes 3300 about right) or 3583 in sedan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M3#E90.2F92.2F93_M3

I know a bunch of people on this site have weighed their own cars....but to make apples to apples, dont we need to compare manufacturer numbers with the way they have approached curb weight?

(which, as noted, is 90% full of fuel, no driver.

....and the decision to eliminate the 'driver' variable i attribute to average weight differences between europeans and americans...
)

(also, in fairness, car and driver had the e92 about 100 lbs heavier:

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...tested-feature

BUT - on that measure, a 80 kg lighter F80 would still meet BMW's goal of hitting the E46 weight.

Sure, less weight would be better, but that was the goal and they hit it)

All in all, ridiculous torque, less weight.

I see no problems with this program.

....and since i have been a good boy and held off on getting an E90 M3 (though sorely tempted from time to time) i am certain I see an F80 in my future.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by solstice

80kg less than the current car is the best data we can get since it covers every standard. Just use whatever standard you like and deduct 80 kg. It is way less reduction than I had hoped for and at around 5% of total weight it will be very hard to detect any difference in agility. It can of course make a lot of good when the weight is removed from moving parts to reduce inertia and also impact from undamped weight. Reduced overhang weight also makes for good things.

For me though the weight reduction is nowhere near a good enough trade-off to lose the S65 so now the hope lies with improvements in other aspects of the car. I'm going to approach this car with a large dose of caution though, luckily I'm not going to swap car until earliest a late summer ED so there should be time to test drive. If it was 3300 lbs US curb weight I would have ordered untested for sure since that would have made a signficant enough difference alone.

Again, thanks a million Jason for the awesome coverage and continous updates on specific areas. This sites really rocks for info.

I feel the exact same way.

It seems there is a lot of pumped marketing hype about the weight of this new F8X series. If it only boils down to 80kg, it is welcome, but not that significant.

12kg reduction is quoted from the 6MT. Are those 12kg included in the 80kg? If so, it means that a DCT F8X is now only 68kg lighter than an E9X. I guess I will have to wait and see.

Doing quick math, the E9X improved power to weight compared to the E46 by 16%. The F8X only improves it by 6% compared to the E9X. (I am using full weight with driver and fuel here.)

I bought my E46 and E92 without even test driving them. Not so sure about the F82...

[solstice]

I think I got the weight from Edmunds and it sounded familiar to what bmwusa had. Here is for the coupe from bmwusa

"And with a curb weight of 3700 lbs., it also has the best power-to-weight ratio of any BMW M3"

http://cache.bmwusa.com/pdf_ff20716a...263a61561.arox

The weight numbers are all over the place what matters is 80 kg difference which is IMO not very noticeable in terms of total weight on a 3700 lbs car.

[Savory]

Originally Posted by Jason

About the weight quote.

The quoted 3300 lbs is with a 90 per cent full tank of gas, but no driver.

For the European market right? US spec any different?

[caneaddict]

I just posted this in the other thread and will add here because of all the confusion.

EU unladen - car has all necessary fluids and running gear including spare tire plus 90% fuel
EU kerb - same as unladen but add 68kg for driver and 7kg for cargo

US Curb- the weight of the base car as offered without any weight reducing options plus driver and cargo 165lbs and 16 gal fuel (6lb/gal).

Usually a base US car has more standard equipment than a base EU car so it usually weighs a bit more than EU kerb. One example will be whether the M4 is calculated with manual or DCT (by making DCT optional they might save quite a bit of "official" weight)

BMW is quoting a driverless car at 3306 lbs. Add 165 lbs to match the normal weight on BMW site and you have 3471 lbs. However, the difference of equipment (US cars almost always use automatic transmission for Curb weight) will probably mean 3480 - 3530 lbs.

BMW stated that the car would be about 80kg lighter than the e90 so the weight of the e90 is being debated but you must use the same methodology. The e90 curb weight on the BMW site was 3704 lbs. That includes the 165 lb for driver/cargo. That is why when people are weighing their cars without driver they get 3550 lbs and it's why some places like wiki will list the EU unladen weight.

However in an attempt to compare similar set-ups you must include the driver/cargo because that is how every car on BMW's site is currently listed. Hence working up from 3306 and adding driver/cargo plus equipment changes nets a number between 3480 - 3540 lbs (manual vs DCT is a huge variable - was DCT included in BMW's 3306 number and will the US number be based on manual?). Working down from the e90 curb weight and subtracting 80 kg yields 3528 lbs.

In both scenarios the curb weight that will eventually be listed on BMW's US site will be around 3500 lbs.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by solstice

80kg less than the current car is the best data we can get since it covers every standard. Just use whatever standard you like and deduct 80 kg.

+1

Easiest way to look at it.

Honestly it is all BMW should have stated. But the 3,300 figure is to catch peoples attention.

[Carl L]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I feel the exact same way.

It seems there is a lot of pumped marketing hype about the weight of this new F8X series. If it only boils down to 80kg, it is welcome, but not that significant.

12kg reduction is quoted from the 6MT. Are those 12kg included in the 80kg? If so, it means that a DCT F8X is now only 68kg lighter than an E9X. I guess I will have to wait and see.

Doing quick math, the E9X improved power to weight compared to the E46 by 16%. The F8X only improves it by 6% compared to the E9X. (I am using full weight with driver and fuel here.)

I bought my E46 and E92 without even test driving them. Not so sure about the F82...

Apples to apples, power to weight increase is way more than 6%, closer to 10%, no? (even with just a 176lb reduction which is the much lower number than the initial BS marketing number of a 294lb drop.)

caneaddict- good rundown, and as you say it will certainly weigh more than 3300 when US curbs are released. But the weight loss is still a great thing and more important than pure power.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by Carl L

Apples to apples, power to weight increase is way more than 6%, closer to 10%, no? (even with just a 176lb reduction which is the much lower number than the initial BS marketing number of a 294lb drop.)

caneaddict- good rundown, and as you say it will certainly weigh more than 3300 when US curbs are released. But the weight loss is still a great thing and more important than pure power.

I went with the real world numbers I have. Real world acceleration needs a driver in the car . My DCT E92 with driver and almost full tank weighs 3880lbs. BWW claims a 80kg weight reduction. I suspect this numbers includes the 12kg weight reduction from the 6MT, which yields only a 68kg weight reduction for a DCT car. So a similarly equipped F82 with driver would weigh 3730lbs.

3880/420=9.24
3730/430=8.67

8.67/9.24-1= -6.2%

Like I said, I will reserve final judgment until we have more info. Any weight reduction is welcome. But so far I am not impressed with the weight reduction relative to the small power increase.