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View Poll Results: I would rather have the
BMW M4 53 46.09%
PORSCHE 991 62 53.91%
Voters: 115. You may not vote on this poll

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      07-29-2013, 09:35 PM   #1
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If you are leasing in the U.S., they are pretty much the same price.

Lease residual for Porsche 991 (not the S) is 77%. MF is 0.00200
Lease residual for the existing M3 is 63%. MF is 0.00127 (new M4 is unlikely to be cheaper)

for 24 months as of July 2013.

Which one would you prefer to drive?

I just can't wait for the M4 any more, lol. So if it's the same price, just wondering which car people would go for.

Here is the 2009 comparo of the 997 and the M3
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mparison-tests

Things have changed since then: the introduction of the 991 in 2012 and of course, the upcoming M4. So it's time to revisit this question.
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      07-30-2013, 12:47 AM   #2
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I've been on the fence. A fully equipped slightly used 2012 991 S (SPASM, PSE, CHRONO, PDK) will probably be high 70's / low 80's - same price as a new M4 next spring. I know most would think I'm crazy but even if they were the exact same price new, I would lean towards the M4. Since it will be my only car, I think the M4 will be more comfortable.

BTW - Porsche has crazy lease deals right now for the 991 with 78% residual for 24 months and dealers are doing about 7% - 10% off MSRP (and there's additional porsche lease incentives) so leasing a new $100k 991 is probably cheaper than the M4 when it first arrives (excluding euro delivery) - low $900's

Last edited by caneaddict; 07-30-2013 at 12:53 AM..
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      07-30-2013, 06:37 AM   #3
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Well, it's tough to say with the M4 not even revealed yet, much less driven.
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      07-30-2013, 07:04 AM   #4
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The 981 is closer to the price of a M4 new and IMO a better car than the 991.
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      07-30-2013, 07:19 AM   #5
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I would only go with the Porsche as a second car (weekend toy). As great as they are on the track and weekend pizza runs etc., DD is just not something I would attempt to do with a 991. Not at those $$$$ maintenance prices.
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      07-30-2013, 07:56 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgaler View Post
The 981 is closer to the price of a M4 new and IMO a better car than the 991.
Not sure about the latter point (have never driven either), but you are right about the MSRP.

Of course, the Cayman only has two seats while the 911 can at least accommodate younger children, and then the M4 can even accommodate adults if need be. Things will get much more interesting when Porsche decides to bring a "Pacan" to market.
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      07-30-2013, 09:06 AM   #7
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I think is too early to say anything. BMW has money more than ever before to engineer new M3, so I am waiting that M3 will shock everyone whit its technique. Hope so

btw. Sounds so wrong to call M3 F82 to M4. Because M3 is benchmark and M3 is most winningest race car ever. They make brand between 1985–2013 and now throw everything on trash, just because most M-buyers dont see different between M3 E90 and M3 E92, they brand cars different? Sorry..I know its just badge, but still I don´t really understand why.
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      07-30-2013, 12:44 PM   #8
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Depends on the type of driving experience you are looking for. Considering you are coming from a 335, do you still want that slingshot low-end torque or do you want linear, higher-rpm power delivery?

personally I am going for a CPO 991 2S or 4S in 3 or 4 years. By then my heavily modified '07 335 will probably have 100k on the clock (60k right now) and will probably need to be retired by then. I have had three turbo cars in a row (Jetta 1.8t, A4 1.8t and then current 335) so I am ready to go to a higher-redline NA experience.

We'll see how the new M4 actually turns out in production form, I am sure BMW will not disappoint. It looks beautiful even under camo and the videos from the 'ring are very exciting. A new M4 will probably be priced comparably to a CPO 991 2s or 4s depending on options.

You can't go wrong either way - good luck!
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      07-30-2013, 12:56 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daya View Post
Depends on the type of driving experience you are looking for. Considering you are coming from a 335, do you still want that slingshot low-end torque or do you want linear, higher-rpm power delivery?

personally I am going for a CPO 991 2S or 4S in 3 or 4 years. By then my heavily modified '07 335 will probably have 100k on the clock (60k right now) and will probably need to be retired by then. I have had three turbo cars in a row (Jetta 1.8t, A4 1.8t and then current 335) so I am ready to go to a higher-redline NA experience.

We'll see how the new M4 actually turns out in production form, I am sure BMW will not disappoint. It looks beautiful even under camo and the videos from the 'ring are very exciting. A new M4 will probably be priced comparably to a CPO 991 2s or 4s depending on options.

You can't go wrong either way - good luck!
I really like your post Daya.

I test drove a 991 and 991s two days ago. On the freeway, the delivery is so linear. I was doing 110mph on the 991s and I didn't even realize. I kept waiting for the kick-in-the pants feeling. So considering the thrill/feel-of-speed factor, I was not impressed with either car. But the F1 sound of shifting with PDK was very intoxicating. For a non-track guy, even I could appreciate the 911 handling and steering precision.

I looked into a 2012 991s. The cheapest with PDK & Sport Chrono was 85k w/ 5k miles. Factoring interest from auto loan, transportation, tax, and etc my monthly was around $1367. I could get a new 2013 991s for that kind of monthly. After a while, I thought about it and I didn't want to make that payment.

I probably will get a 991 w/ PDK and Sport Chrono for now and after a year maybe slip into a C2S with the Porsche Conquest program. Or after my lease is up I'll get the M4, if like you mentioned, it is impressive.





Quote:
Originally Posted by caneaddict View Post
I've been on the fence. A fully equipped slightly used 2012 991 S (SPASM, PSE, CHRONO, PDK) will probably be high 70's / low 80's - same price as a new M4 next spring. I know most would think I'm crazy but even if they were the exact same price new, I would lean towards the M4. Since it will be my only car, I think the M4 will be more comfortable.

BTW - Porsche has crazy lease deals right now for the 991 with 78% residual for 24 months and dealers are doing about 7% - 10% off MSRP (and there's additional porsche lease incentives) so leasing a new $100k 991 is probably cheaper than the M4 when it first arrives (excluding euro delivery) - low $900's
For me the 911 would still be my daily, but it's not my only car. I have an '04 7 series beater I can use if needed--if I run out of mileage--the 77% residual is for PDK w/ 10k miles per year allotment. If no PDK it's 78%.

As for the low $900s, I keep hearing about it, but it's tough. I missed out on the prime time leasing bonanza in June. Inventory levels for base 911 are low now, and Porsche dealership, especially in SoCal know what they've got so they are unwilling to make a deal.

I'd say if you get more than 7% of a base 991 w/ 0.00200 MF you did well. If you get more than 9% of a 991s w/ 0.00200 you also did well. Of course $0 cap reduction.

But if you want a 991 you should act now. With the 2014 coming in, I hear July is the last month for this higher residual and 24 month lease promo.

It's basically the end of the month so now is the best time to make a deal on whatever 2013 991 is left--I'm still undecided but leaning towards the 911 as stated above.

Last edited by jasonn; 07-30-2013 at 01:05 PM..
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      07-30-2013, 03:08 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caneaddict View Post
I've been on the fence. A fully equipped slightly used 2012 991 S (SPASM, PSE, CHRONO, PDK) will probably be high 70's / low 80's -
I doubt well specced is in the 70s (??) - well, I guess I want CPO so maybe that's the diff. For me, if high 70s vs M4 then no contest, 991CS.
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      07-30-2013, 09:30 PM   #11
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I seriously doubt a 991s with some goodies are going to be in the 70 range anytime next year. I would love it, but don't see it happening.
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      07-30-2013, 10:33 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raja Ventureshield View Post
I seriously doubt a 991s with some goodies are going to be in the 70 range anytime next year. I would love it, but don't see it happening.
Jason above just mentioned he found a PDK, Sport Chrono with 5000 miles for $85k. Depreciation will be at least 10% over the next year. I think high 70's (non CPO) to low 80's for very well equipped cars will certainly be attainable next spring. Remember by next spring all the initial 24 - 30 month leases will be hitting the market along with everyone that plans to upgrade to the Turbo/GT3 (I think that's where the supply of really well equipped cars will come)
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      07-31-2013, 12:00 AM   #13
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I need 4 doors and BMW makes the best sedans in the world with the M3 ( and old fives as the E39 and E60 ). The day I don't need 4 doors anymore I'll be in talk with our Porsche CA, the wife already drives a Cayenne.
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      07-31-2013, 07:08 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caneaddict View Post
Jason above just mentioned he found a PDK, Sport Chrono with 5000 miles for $85k. Depreciation will be at least 10% over the next year. I think high 70's (non CPO) to low 80's for very well equipped cars will certainly be attainable next spring. Remember by next spring all the initial 24 - 30 month leases will be hitting the market along with everyone that plans to upgrade to the Turbo/GT3 (I think that's where the supply of really well equipped cars will come)
might then have to get an used one then instead of spending 130k on a new car.
If the options are right, i am doing this.
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      07-31-2013, 07:55 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonn View Post
If you are leasing in the U.S., they are pretty much the same price.

Lease residual for Porsche 991 (not the S) is 77%. MF is 0.00200
Lease residual for the existing M3 is 63%. MF is 0.00127 (new M4 is unlikely to be cheaper)

for 24 months as of July 2013.

Which one would you prefer to drive?

I just can't wait for the M4 any more, lol. So if it's the same price, just wondering which car people would go for.

Here is the 2009 comparo of the 997 and the M3
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mparison-tests

Things have changed since then: the introduction of the 991 in 2012 and of course, the upcoming M4. So it's time to revisit this question.
Everyone should own a 911 at some point in their lives. In fact, if elected, I'll make it the law. For me, it was an '07 997 CS. Itch scratched, and never again. Do a 2 year on the 991, then slide back into a 2nd year bug free edition M4. Just my opinion.
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      07-31-2013, 09:41 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Never Convicted View Post
Everyone should own a 911 at some point in their lives. In fact, if elected, I'll make it the law. For me, it was an '07 997 CS. Itch scratched, and never again. Do a 2 year on the 991, then slide back into a 2nd year bug free edition M4. Just my opinion.
agreed. mine was an 08 C2S. fun car to own. traded it in for a 2011 M and never looked back.
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      07-31-2013, 10:37 AM   #17
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Reg 991 (non s) is joke carrera.. my friend rented it for a weekend and wasnt impressed one bit. unless you just going for the badge. Price tag is just not justified.
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      08-01-2013, 05:38 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ixse View Post
Reg 991 (non s) is joke carrera.. my friend rented it for a weekend and wasnt impressed one bit. unless you just going for the badge. Price tag is just not justified.


Well, looks like I'm getting my joke Carrera on Monday! Super pumped

Three things.

Firstly, Porsche Dealerships, at least in Los Angeles, really piss me off. At the four dealerships I frequented, I heard the some variation of these lines: "this isn't BMW or Mercedes...we aren't a volume dealership" or "this isn't BMW or Mercedes, this is Porsche, we don't sell our cars to just anyone". I considered adding my GF to my lease since she currently has an X1 for the Porsche Conquest Program. Rep scoffed at us and said "that's what...only $500 bucks a month?" My GF got up and walked out of the dealership. She loves her X1. Best LA dealership is Beverly Hills Porsche. Glen Fagin is great to deal with, but he just didn't have the color combo or specs I wanted. Bastard kept trying to talk me out of Sport Chrono.

Secondly PFS is tough! Man I have never encountered any credit issues ever until now. Not even for my house. I was initially declined!! Said insufficient credit history. Mortgage history only 7 months, they wanted 2 years. I had to forward my personal bank statements and my company's bank statements then I got approved.

Lastly, back to the LA Porsche Dealerships. I could only get 4-5% off MSRP and I had to fight and battle for the 0.00200 MF for a base 991. If you guys are considering a lease, don't forget Porsche dealerships out of state. They are much more accommodating. And a few of them are volume Porsche dealerships so they can move cars quickly and give you close to the pricing right off the bat. From there, apply a tad bit of pressure and you'll get to the price you want, or in the very least a much better deal.
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      08-02-2013, 06:53 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonn View Post
Well, looks like I'm getting my joke Carrera on Monday! Super pumped

Three things.

Firstly, Porsche Dealerships, at least in Los Angeles, really piss me off. At the four dealerships I frequented, I heard the some variation of these lines: "this isn't BMW or Mercedes...we aren't a volume dealership" or "this isn't BMW or Mercedes, this is Porsche, we don't sell our cars to just anyone". I considered adding my GF to my lease since she currently has an X1 for the Porsche Conquest Program. Rep scoffed at us and said "that's what...only $500 bucks a month?" My GF got up and walked out of the dealership. She loves her X1. Best LA dealership is Beverly Hills Porsche. Glen Fagin is great to deal with, but he just didn't have the color combo or specs I wanted. Bastard kept trying to talk me out of Sport Chrono.

Secondly PFS is tough! Man I have never encountered any credit issues ever until now. Not even for my house. I was initially declined!! Said insufficient credit history. Mortgage history only 7 months, they wanted 2 years. I had to forward my personal bank statements and my company's bank statements then I got approved.

Lastly, back to the LA Porsche Dealerships. I could only get 4-5% off MSRP and I had to fight and battle for the 0.00200 MF for a base 991. If you guys are considering a lease, don't forget Porsche dealerships out of state. They are much more accommodating. And a few of them are volume Porsche dealerships so they can move cars quickly and give you close to the pricing right off the bat. From there, apply a tad bit of pressure and you'll get to the price you want, or in the very least a much better deal.
LMAO...best of luck with it. Remember, shiny side up.
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      08-05-2013, 07:49 PM   #20
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Car was delivered today and I love it so much! The power is definitely there but I have to work for it now; I don't mind one bit because it makes the car all the more fun to drive. Sports Plus button is f*ckin amazing.

I do miss the instant low-end torque delivery of the 335i on the freeway and a lot more cars do fly-bys/rev next to me. This car makes me want to become a better driver. Porsche has definitely widened/broadened the 911's appeal: the 991 is really easy to drive--beast when you want it to be, otherwise it can also be a easy-going commuter daily car.

After this car, might go back to M4, and then after that I'll try to get a 2013 GT3; by then it'll be 5 years old and hopefully be within my budget.


Last edited by jasonn; 08-05-2013 at 07:56 PM..
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      08-05-2013, 07:58 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonn View Post
Car was delivered today and I love it so much! The power is definitely there but I have to work for it now; I don't mind one bit because it makes the car all the more fun to drive. Sports Plus button is f*ckin amazing.

I do miss the instant low-end torque delivery of the 335i on the freeway and a lot more cars do fly-bys/rev next to me. This car makes me want to become a better driver. Porsche has definitely widened/broadened the 911's appeal: the 991 is really easy to drive--beast when you want it to be, otherwise it can also be a easy-going commuter daily car.

After this car, might go back to M4, and then after that I'll try to get a 2013 GT3; by then it'll be 5 years old and hopefully be within my budget.

I really love the standard white on Porsches.
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      08-06-2013, 01:26 AM   #22
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Congrats on the new Porsche!
Dat look nice.
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